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An-tis-i-pA-A-shun, is spinning me round

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
under a new name,
Quote:

I think consciously about my skiing ALL the time. Doesn't everyone?
No. And sometimes that's helpful. But sometimes it isn't. Embarassed
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Dr John, steep, deep and heavy? Interesting...
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Hurtle, How odd, for me it's part of the skiing-Zen thing. Total absorption.
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 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
under a new name, Unconscious Competence is closer to Nirvana shirley?

Doesn't mean you're not thinking about your line, watching for rocks or stumps, processing feedback on snow feel, trying to watch your shadow for feedback on form etc
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Dr John wrote:
I was off-piste with a coach and I kept falling back when finishing tight-ish turns in the steep n deep. Coach identified the problem as me forcing the separation to have my shoulders facing down the fall-line, resulting in pushing my downhill arm back and pushing me into the back seat and the skis running away from under me.

That says to me more about how you were getting the countered position, rather than what you were aiming for. Get that "down the hill" position by driving the uphill hand (and the shoulder then follows it) forward towards the end of the turn, rather than pulling the downhill one back. I always find that getting that separation is more important on the steeps than on the flatter sections, where a more evenly balanced position helps keep the skis more evenly pressured. With a squarer position there is a huge tendency for the uphill shoulder to fall back, resulting in a too straight back and fall onto the back of the skis. You're also in that anticipated position ready to make the next turn quickly if things don't go quite to plan and you end up having to make a quick "recovery" turn. If ever I find that I'm falling back at the end of a turn on steeps, it's always fixed by telling myself to "drive the uphill hand forward and down"
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 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
GrahamN, you could well be right. I think it was a case of finding a happy balance between countering and keeping pressure forward. My uphill hand wasn't falling back (had that beaten out of me years ago), but my downhill hand was almost behind me as I tried to force the rotation. Making the end of the turn more natural, not forcing the issue, and keeping hands forward and within eyesight helped me link turns in a more fluid style.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
The term "anticipation" threw me too, but I guess I'm a bit late to the thread to do much other than agree with what's being said.

Just wondering though - is another benefit of the seperation created by anticipation that your upper body is facing the fall line, so it's easier to absorb terrain/bumps? This is something I think I feel but I'm not convinced. To try and clarify, it feels that skiers turning with the lower body allow their hips and torso to be an extra "spring"-esque shock absorber, while skiers turning without seperation/anticipation/whatever with their upper body leading turns then can't use it to flex and absorb terrain?
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
fatbob, listening to your skis for that perfect carve noise? I just don't think my brain is wired to ski without thinking about it?
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
GrahamN wrote:
.........Get that "down the hill" position by driving the uphill hand (and the shoulder then follows it) forward towards the end of the turn, rather than pulling the downhill one back. I always find that getting that separation is more important on the steeps than on the flatter sections, where a more evenly balanced position helps keep the skis more evenly pressured......

GrahamN, Didn't know you'd done a Wassa Smith course wink Cool
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
under a new name wrote:
fatbob, listening to your skis for that perfect carve noise? I just don't think my brain is wired to ski without thinking about it?


Never going to happen with me, the perfect skid or some bloke cursing "get out the f'ing backseat" much more likely.
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
spyderjon, really, that one of his? So he does comment on something other than ankle flex.... Shocked Laughing . And I thought that all up by my own too Sad . (Actually I probably got it from gilleski, or maybe even some long-forgotten Frenchie in my only ever ESF lesson).

Dr John, OK, so maybe it was the extent to which you were trying to force things that was the problem.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
fatbob wrote:
FastMan, At what point in the process do you reintroduce pivot steering as a more finesse move in tighter situations?


Here's the progression.

- Square them up, get them in a good stance, teach them how to initiate a turn cleanly, without pivot.

- Teach them how to precisely manage turn shape and speed via refined edging skills.

- Mix in lateral and fore/aft balance, to amplify versatility, control and confidence. This leads into their first taste of how angulation is used to manage lateral balance.

- Take these new skills to steeper terrain. Let them discover how well their new edging and balance skills work there. Let them discover they can manage speed and turn shape while doing non pivoted turns here too.

- Start to introduce a variety of rotary states. Teach them to ski countered, square, and rotated. Refine to the point they can vary their rotational state at will, at any point during the turn, while not degrading the quality of their clean turn initiations.

- They've now skied anticipated, without knowing it. Show them how it can be used to power a pivot. Learn on moderate terrain, then take it up to steeper terrain and do it there too.
They now can ski steeper terrain, pivoting or clean entry, which ever they feel like. Empowered.


Hope that answers your question. Of course I skipped many micro steps in that overview, but it should provide a general idea of how I like to structure a person's learning journey. Pivoting well is an important skill to possess, but I first want to get people to the point where they're not dependent on having to fling their skis for the majority of their turns. Not only is that a frustration and anxiety generating way to have to ski, it's way too much work.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
I probably should have posted this at the beginning of the thread. Here's a description of what an anticipation transition is, with pictures and video. Scroll down the page to the entry for "ANTICIPATION".

http://www.yourskicoach.com/SkiGlossary/Anticipation.html


Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much on Sun 24-04-11 8:50; edited 1 time in total
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Megamum wrote:
Megamum do not pivot the skis at the beginning of the turn - repeat X 100 How do you know if you are doing this? FastMan, may be watching you........Eeek!! Need to win lottery go and spend season in Colarado and hire FastMan, for ski lessons each day.


Megamum, I'd love to ski with you for a season like that. Ahhh, the skier you would be! Very Happy A few seasons ago I had the opportunity to work with a student doing 3 all day private lessons a week for 2 full months. The progress he made was amazing. I kicked myself for not taking before/after footage. He began as a skier of two weeks experience: traverse in a terrified crouch, make a madly desperate pivot at the edge of the trail, traverse back to the other side of the trail, repeat, repeat, repeat. Yikes. By the end of his stay he was laying down cleaned carved arc to arc turns down steep blues. Takes serious funds to do something like that though. I'll be pulling for you to hit that lottery.

In the meantime, like Hurtle says, you've got some quality guys right there in you neighborhood. From all reports,rob@rar and skimottaret are doing fabulous job with their program. And of course, when you head for the Alps, Easiski is top notch, really knows her stuff. She strikes death to pivoting. If you can't get away to the perfect snow of Colorado, you can't go wrong skiing with those folks.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Scarpa, you forgot shifting you body position prior to entry, counter steering to initiate the turn & nuetral throttle through the apex followed by progressive acceleration as lean angle diminishes Twisted Evil
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