 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Sad.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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It's a shame. I am surprised that more ski operators have not gone bust in the last two years.
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We were all very sad to hear about Finlays going under at welove2ski. I met Richard on a couple of occasions and he's an extremely nice man and loves his skiing, so best of luck to both him and Roddy (the two owners) in the future.
Did anyone see the other big ski tourism news last week about Inghams and Total/Esprit joining forces? It's not completely clear what this will mean for next season, but with a genuine competitor to TUI finally alive and kicking, it could mean a price war - and some cheap skiing! On the downside, it probably means the Finlays won't be the last mid-sized tour op to go under in 2010...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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welove2ski, hmm. Ski Espirit was founded by an ex RAF Squadron Leader, IIRC, and thrived because it offered a great deal for families, overseen with a personal touch. Another niche operator was Bladons - now swallowed by Inghams. Others have also come and gone. It probably makes sense for such businesses to sell out to a big operator. And yet, I hope that TOs offering a personal touch will still emerge, in their turn. If I must choose a TO, I would like it to be with someone I may meet - but the problem these days is financial stability.
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achilles, Esprit has been owned by a combination of ex Crystal Directors and Venture Capitalists for quite a long time prior to this move and with Total carried 40k+ skiers - I think the old school personal touch may have gone a while ago. However, could become more client focussed as a pure Tour Operator without the VC dosh lurking in the background looking for a return? ... although I have no idea who ultimately owns Hotelplan, the Inghams parent company.
... and if you hang around Bar Bush in Les Gets or the Ferme in Reberty for any significant amount of time you will meet me 
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So a supermarket chain ...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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ctskifam, haha a fair point - they are a rather big organisation. However, we gather that Hotelplan UK has a fair bit of autonomy. Still a huge operation, but the three brands do cater for specific (separate) markets, and presumably have separate management staff for each so that they don't lose touch.
Andy Perrin said: “Our three ski brands - Inghams, Esprit, and Total - each cater for a different part of the ski market. Inghams is strongest on hotels, Esprit is the family specialist, and Total is mainly in the adult chalet market."
Anyway, here's the kicker - Andy was the MD of Esprit/Total (Enigma Travel), and is now the new CEO of Hotelplan UK. Even though Hotelplan (and Inghams) are the ones that bought Enigma. In fact, the entire Enigma management team are running the show at Hotelplan UK now!
Oh, and did I mention that Perrin and business partner Peter Dyer (now VP of Hotelplan UK) were the original team behind Crystal that eventually sold to TUI? So a company that they created is now the main competitor to the new company that they've just taken over (i.e. Inghams).
If you followed all that, the overriding impression is that the chaps at Enigma have done rather well for themselves. Kudos.
We wrote a story on this last week, if anyone fancies a further read. Yes yes, it's a shameless plug, but I still thought you might be interested. 
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Having worked for Andy P and Peter at Crystal (albeit at a fairly low level in the food chain when they were still about) I have enormous respect for them as business people. Andy is a great marketeer and the both would appear to have an intuitive grasp of the important numbers. However ... do you think the bean counters will be able to resist the lure of big overhead savings if they merge certain areas of the management? I don't. A few key people then lose interest and move on and the character behind the individual brand is in real danger. I hope I'm wrong, it would be great to see a strong counterbalance to TUi.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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welove2ski, shameless plug indeed BUT timely as the last time I looked at your site I thought it gone the way of other ski websites...........or at best it was dormant.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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achilles, - well he could not get much closer in Bar Bush to some of the chalets that he has in Les Gets, so he must feel very relaxed about bumping into some of his punters.
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You know it makes sense.
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| boredsurfin wrote: |
| welove2ski, shameless plug indeed BUT timely as the last time I looked at your site I thought it gone the way of other ski websites...........or at best it was dormant. |
There is no shame in promoting one's business.
Good luck to the dude.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Isn't this where someone pops up and says "well I always go DIY" 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Boris, well I always go DIY*, so I hover, like an angel in ski-boots and a rather sexy base layer, above all these petty concerns.
* this may or may not be true.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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That's spin-talk for grundies, isn't it? 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| achilles wrote: |
| knowing that you can meet the owner in a bar would be a powerful reason for choosing a TO. Not that I want to muscle in on his life - but I'd like to know that he frequents the area, and isn't worried about the reaction he'll get from any punters he meets. |
There are plenty of independents out there where you'll get just that, in my experience. But there's the catch: you'll invariably pay more for the privilege. Any managing director that can afford that level of customer attention is unlikely to command the spread-out costs of TUI (and now Hotelplan UK) that make their deals so cheap.
Which begs the question - what are you really after? For a lot of people out there, getting on the snow for as few of their hard-earned £££s as possible is more important than guaranteed customer care. Especially in 'times like these', as they say. Which is probably a sign of things to come... survival of the fittest.
boredsurfin, sorry to hear that you found that, but glad to see you've changed your mind 
With our crack team of just four staff - all with other full-time jobs - there are (brief and infrequent!) occasions when it gets pretty difficult to keep up with it all. It's pretty important to keep people reading and interested in skiing (not just for us, but for the sport itself) in the off-season, so you'll see a constant stream of new content over at our site in the coming months. I agree that there is a tendency for things to dry up a bit elsewhere, and we're doing our best to avoid that pitfall.
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welove2ski, this is a debate we could probably carry on elsewhere but I think that there is another side to your argument on "times like these".
For some people there is a flight to quality when times are tough. If you're going to spend a decent chunk of hard earned taxed income on a holiday you want to be as sure as you can be that it'll be good - if you need to spend a bit more to have that security re the service it's not money wasted. If a firm can convince their guests they are getting value (whatever their price point) they have the ability to do well at the moment.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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ctskifam I think it is a perfectly apt topic for the thread since companies only go bust either because no one wants what they are selling (not enough punters) or their business plan is wrong (costs too high etc).
welove2ski hits the nail on the head in that it is a question of how people rate service vs cost. I must admit to wanting high levels of service for the lowest cost (which I admit must be a very tricky business model to meet).
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I am sure with the Total/Esprit management at the helm you will notice more competitive pricing in the Inghams brand with absolutely no compromise in service.
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| Morrissey wrote: |
| I am sure with the Total/Esprit management at the helm you will notice more competitive pricing in the Inghams brand with absolutely no compromise in service. |
Contacts in Inghams tell me the reps are being squeezed out to make way for underpaid spotty teenagers, this will of course lead to a decline in service 
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Sad news about Finlays, especially after a couple of the best seasons in living memory.
The market is not really about us, who will sell body parts to get their fix, but about the general public who sometimes go skiing, sometimes don't. In harder times, skiing is, for those people, an easy luxury to drop. For those with kids, even more so.
The secret to keeping those customers is bonding with them and giving excellent service in the resort.
We play safe and return, in summer and winter, to where we get excellent resort service. We are also happy to sing the praises of those who provide it.
Some companies work on the 'pile it high, sell it cheap' model but good service to achieve customer retention would be my priority.
I went to Finlays in Les Coches 20 years ago. The staff were great but the chalet was a horrible hike from the village. I suspect there will be some very good staff on the market for new jobs and hope owners can dust themselves off and start again.
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FAQ
