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Black Diamond Factor or Garmont Endorphin??

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I'm looking to get some new boots that are a bit more touring friendly for next season, I have been looking at the Black Diamond Factor and the Garmont Endorphin.
Has anyone got a pair of these, and if so whats your opinion on them?

I would prefer to have a boot that has more performance rather than a super light one as any touring is likley to be shorter stuff to get into the off piste rather than full on multi day touring.

I'm not too bothered about Dynafit sole options as I have the Fritschi Freeride bindings.

I really like my current boots but the lack of a walk mode really starts to take its toll!!
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
ish303 wrote:
I'm not too bothered about Dynafit sole options as I have the Fritschi Freeride bindings.

I really like my current boots but the lack of a walk mode really starts to take its toll!!


See how you 'liked' your current boots but realize they are limiting? So you go for a touring friendly freeride boot. Once you get that you realize how limiting your Fritchis are and will go Dynafit. I've drunk the Kool-Aid and it all true Wink

Seriously, get a Dynafit compatible boot. You'll be kicking yourself in a seasons time.

I've heard good things about both boots but it doesn't matter if they don't fit you. There are some pretty good options for what you are looking for, Dynafit Titan / Zzeus, Scarpa Skookum, Dalbello Virus, Garmont Radium / Shogun and if you are adamant that you don't need Dynafit Atomic Agent AT.

As with any boot, good fit is the most important thing in the world. Maybe second to a good boot fitter.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I've been on the Virus for the last six weeks, I'm not missing my Radium's one bit!

No vibram slop, hold the foot well, laterally stiff as you like, amazing walk mode, bit of bling, what more do you want. Very Happy
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ish303, you could also add the scarpa typhoon to your list...very light and comfortable, but do not give anything up on downhill performance...they are as bomber as my salomon course 120's...





okbye
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The scarpa typhoon looks pretty cool, haven't really seen it in many shops I've looked around. Does the walk mode look sturdy? A lot of reviews on the Black Diamond seem to suggest that on that boot its easily breakable.
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ish303, I have Typhoons and had no problems with the walk mode after two seasons. And I tend to break stuff.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
ish303, First generation Factor had problems with the walk mode, now not an issue. Main point here is that you are comparing a cabriolet boot (Endorphin 3 pieces) with a true Alpine overlap. The Factor is bar far the best shape, anatomically speaking (average heel to ball relationship.) and will ski way better than any 3 piece boot. Such designs will soon be obsolete aside real lightweight designs with PU versions. Love the build of scarpa boots however they are all pebax (not PU as most Ski boots but are around 200gms lighter compared to PU.) and are way too voluminous for the most of skiers. Again cabriolet design.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Question for ish 303 - I'm in exactly the same situation - did you make any decision? My thoughts are that I want to get the G-Fit Endorphin, and there are some decent online deals about but the fit is key, maybe need a trip to the Alps this summer to get a cheap pair. My mate has just got a pair of Factors, brilliant boots and good fit but I wanted to try something different and have heard good things about the Endorphins but at full RP they are a sting...........how did your thought process end up?
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ish303, at the start of this season I was looking to purchase new AT boots and I narrowed the choice down to the BD Factors, Garmont Endorphins and Dynafit Titans. Being unable to source a pair of Titans to try on, I was left with a straight choice between the Factors and Endorphins. I chose the Factors as they fit my narrow heel better. I can honestly say I haven't noticed any loss of performance over my Nordica Doberman Pro 130 alpine boots in the 40 plus days I've used the Factors this winter. The Factors are stiff on the descents when they need to be but are also comfortable for hiking or skinning. Unless I start racing gates, I can't really see me going back to Alpine boots even for resort skiing.

My friend purchased the Endorphins the same day I bought the Factors as he felt the Endorphins fitted his foot shape slightly better. The Endorphins are a little softer than the Factors, but not significantly so. Both are very good AT boots.

Bottom line is find a store which stocks both boots and take some time trying them both on. My friend and I spent six hours at the excellent Braemar Mountain Sports where I tried on three pairs of both the Factors and the Endorphins until I was certain I was choosing the right size and boot for me. The service we received was absolutely first class, the store is run by touring enthusiasts.
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Great stuff, thanks for the info............not rushing into anything but want to try both and will take your advice, cheers.
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HighRustler, Thanks for the info, I did go and have a look at the Black Diamond in the Snow and Rock sale but they didn't have my size, grrr as they were 25% off!

I think I'm going to get a pair of Factors, I'm leaning towards getting them out in the Alps at xmas in resort, I know this will be a premium price but I think I'd feel better knowing I can get them tweaked throughout the week and fitted by someone skilled.

Unfortunately all the places in the UK that sound like they'd give the specialist treatment are way up north Sad

I was quite surprised by some resort deals actually, managed to get some colltex skins fitted and cut to the skis in Zermatt for £145, of all places I thought they would cost a fortune there.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
ish303, bicester isn't way up north?
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
under a new name wrote:
ish303, bicester isn't way up north?


Neither is Lockwoods in Leamington...
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Fit is the most important thing.
Pay attention to weight - the Endorphin is a heavy boot
If you still have a choice, get Dynafit fittings
I bought my first set last season, and will never go back to Freerides, and I haven't even gone up anything yet. The downhill performance of the Dynafits is vastly superior.
I have a very thin foot and the Garmont Radium works well for me

Despite getting large discounts in the UK I always buy in the Alps.
You need to spend a week skiing the boot, and going back to the shop for adjustments.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
So just in case anyone was wondering (or cares!) I tried these on and ended up changing completely and getting a pair of Salomon Quest 12s. When I tried the Factor on it was really narrow and was instantly un comfortable for me.

The Salomon felt a perfect fit, walk mode seemed nice and although I've only trudged round the shop and the house they feel very natural when in walk mode.
I doubt they are the lightest option in their class but compared to my old boots they are like feathers!

I havent skied on them yet, have to wait for xmas to give them a thorough test.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Just don't ski them with Dynafits.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
horizon wrote:
Just don't ski them with Dynafits.


You can't any more.

ish303 you might get some stick for that selection. In case you don't know Salomon released a few pairs early last year, at the last minute they decided to make them available with a tech sole ie. Dynafit compatible. Sadly they allowed a forth grader to use their Blue Peter skills to put them together. The end result was slightly worse than a Papier-mâché interface between boot and binding. Serious injury ensued.

FWIW my SO had a pair (with tech soles) and loved them. Salomon have given her a full refund as she needs Dynafit compatible boots and a free pair of Salomon Poisons, so it ended OK.

Good luck with your boots! I won't say I told you so in a year or twos time but I will say it now: if you do any "up" this year you'll be back for Dynafit soon... Wink
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I saw all the stuff on TGR about the problems before buying, but since I'm not using Dynafits I'm happy.
Maybe in my evolution I'll end up with Dynafits but at the moment the touring will be the lesser part of my annual ski time. The majority will be with family or mates who dont tour so I dont want to spend a fortune on real lightweight tech gear just yet. But who knows in a couple of years time!

I thought I might get some stick buying Salomons which was one of the reasons I posted an update, after having no allegiance at all to any particular boot I ended getting the Quest as it was a great fit and felt really good quality. Although a bad accident I can't help feel the boot has been written off very quickly by a lot of people. Anyone who dared say they liked the Quest was ripped to shreds on TGR!!

Anyway, I'll see what it's really like at Xmas when I get on some real snow.
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It's a bucket. Little Angel
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SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote:
It's a bucket. Little Angel
especially if purchaesd in your measured size...highy recomend you do a shell check and make sure you have no more than about 18mm behind your heel, any more and that liner will pack out in about 2 weeks (if not less)
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go with the Factors. I've skiied deep power to hard piste bashing in them - and climbed for over three hours without any problems.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Why arent we considering the Titans? I love mine, surely they will solve all issues of dynafit fittingness?
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
dulcamara, It's an awesome boot for sure, but I think we are now looking at Alpine Overlap models.
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Quote:

especially if purchaesd in your measured size...highy recomend you do a shell check and make sure you have no more than about 18mm behind your heel, any more and that liner will pack out in about 2 weeks (if not less)

Yup, was in the shells first, about 15mm behind the heel
Quote:

go with the Factors. I've skiied deep power to hard piste bashing in them - and climbed for over three hours without any problems.

I had gone to the shop with my mind pretty much made up that I wanted the Factors but when I tried them on they killed my feet, I could hardly stand 5 mins in them Sad
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ish303, good to hear, not often it happens
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ishh303

Good to hear you managed to find yourself a boot you are comfortable with. Fingers crossed your opinion of the Quest will remain the same after 2/3 weeks skiing and touring. I love my Factors but as I said back in the summer it's all about finding the right boot in the right size. BD have released a new boot for this winter, the Quadrant and I will be interested to see what the feedback is like. The Quadrants appear fairly similar to the Factors in terms of relative stiffness (120 v 130) but are 700g per pair lighter.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Does anyone (SZK??) know anything about Rossi Bsquad sensor3 boots?
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Powderhound, Yes, not even sure why that's come up here though??????
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
'cos there's so many threads open and thought that those commenting here might know if they were any good!
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Powderhound, if they fit, i suppose they'd be good, no?
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
i guess so. if the cap fits etc...
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Powderhound, Can't really help anymore than that, sorry. If it does help though, we never stocked them, or would. Little Angel
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Quote:

I saw all the stuff on TGR about the problems before buying, but since I'm not using Dynafits I'm happy.
.........
Anyone who dared say they liked the Quest was ripped to shreds on TGR!!


People on TGR aren't down on the boot, they're disgusted with Salomon. Because of the failure of the tech-inserts (they refused to buy the inserts of Dynafit due to the cost, made their own lightweight version and didn't fix them into the sole properly) on of the posters on TGR has had to have his knee replaced. Salomon seem to have been pretty poor dealing with the injured guy and their product recall claimed an "incompatability" with the low-tech bindings which has left a sour taste in the mouth of people on the forum.

If it was your friend who'd had to have his knee replaced, you might be reluctant to purchase Salomon products in the future.
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Quest - Oh dear!

Got the Dynafit Zzeus as i skiied in it last year and it's great. Softer version of the Titan, which is also great.

They are light too, especially being DIN compatible!

If you had bought on eof the better touring boots from a better boot fitter then he could have made them fit soooo much better, ey CEM or SZK? Smile
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Quote:

Got the Dynafit Zzeus as i skiied in it last year and it's great. Softer version of the Titan, which is also great.


Is it suitable as a one boot quiver?

I've got to the point that I no longer do seasons and often only get a week a year to ski. This is normally involves a resort holiday with a couple of day tours thrown in. Taking my alpine boots, touring boots, alpine skis and touring skis isn't really feasible so I'm afetr a set-up that'll do the lot.

If they fit my feet, would the Zzeus or Titan boots fit the bill?
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I'm with Sansnom re the factors, I've got a wide foot and high instep, and with custom insole they're great IMO. The wire insole, ratchet up fit thingy(?) with the factors is a winner.
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galpinos wrote:
Quote:

Got the Dynafit Zzeus as i skiied in it last year and it's great. Softer version of the Titan, which is also great.


Is it suitable as a one boot quiver?

I've got to the point that I no longer do seasons and often only get a week a year to ski. This is normally involves a resort holiday with a couple of day tours thrown in. Taking my alpine boots, touring boots, alpine skis and touring skis isn't really feasible so I'm afetr a set-up that'll do the lot.

If they fit my feet, would the Zzeus or Titan boots fit the bill?


I use touring boots on the piste too. From what I have read lighter people (sub circa 75 kg) get away with tourings boots for everything while heavier people and racers tend to want a stiffer alpine boot.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
galpinos, Definately an option if it fits your foot. Places like sol4feet in Bicester will be a good bet as he will fit you properly and stretch the shell to suit your foot if needed.

If I could only use 1 set up I would have the Zzeus, Tlt Vertical binding and stoke ski. I liked the Mustagh-ata too, but prefer a fatter ski and it is so light anyway!
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I might have a look at the Titan then. I'm 85kg and a fairly agressive skier. I've got a pair of Lange Comp 120s and a pair of Scarpa Matrix at the moment which are both good at what I bought them for.

Don't think I'd have dynafiddles as the bindings if I only had a one ski quiver!
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Just a quick update on the Salomon Quest 12 for anyone interested.

Had a chance to give it a reasonable workout over xmas and new year and I am delighted with it.

Tested the uphill with 2x 400m ascents and was really impressed, however since I had the boot completely undone I ended up getting a couple of blisters on the outside of the heel.

Didn't skin for about 5 days then did another 500m but this time kept the second buckle just about shut and everything else loose and it was fine.

The walk mode felt it had plenty enough movement for me and within a couple of minutes I wasn't thinking about the boots, just looking at the scenery.

It also felt pretty good just trudging around resort, when loosened and in walk mode I felt I could just stride around with no probs whatsoever, I didn't feel like there was any noticeable lack of rearwards movement.

As for the downhill I thought it was fantastic, I was a little apprehensive about the power strap instead of a fourth buckle, but after skiing a full day off piste at Grand Montets, and another 5 days in La Plagne it handled powder, icy pistes, bumps everything brilliantly.

I was on a set of K2 Coombacks with Fritschi Freerides and I never once felt like they were unresponsive.

I never bothered putting the laces you get with them on, not really sure if they would add anything.

My only minor gripe is with the power strap, in my opinion it could do with being longer so you could still have it in place on the velcro with it being loose.
Since it was so short I found myself undoing it and velcroing it back on itself without being threaded through the buckle/loop. Once it was tucked under the trousers though it was fine.

Over all its basically exactly what I wanted, no compromise on performance but yet surprisingly good for doing a bit of uphill. Obviously if you're doing mega long tours you'd probably want lighter boots with proper soles, but for bits and bobs of skinning I reckon its great.
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