 Poster: A snowHead
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Sorry I'm being a bit "questiony" at the moment.
So I've got this flipping snowing-board right, and I've more or less banged the bindings into a configuration that I think fits my feet (by twisting screws and chopping bits off), and after doing all that I had to actually attach the damn things to the wood.
I have almost certainly made a mistake here, as I've got a directional board, despite being quite an ambidedxtrous rider (I would say 60/40 normal/switch if not actually 50/50). So - hey, this'll be a good idea, I thought, I adjusted (narrowed) the stance width so that the length of the tail is a bit nearer the length of the nose, by bringing the rear binding position toward the centre by one notch.
Good idea, or am I going to go on my arse?
I took some measurements, and end-to-centre-of-binding the board is near enough twinish - albeit my bindings are maybe an inch closer together than the textbook measurement - but the tail is a bit fat and rotund compared to the long, sleek, tapered nose.
The flex is directional as well, so the tail is quite a bit more springy than the nose.
I ride ducky wucky by the way. +15 -12.
Will I die? Obviously I will eventually, but I mean will I die sooner than that?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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paulio, um, sounds like a dumbass question i know, but do you have the board in the correct front/back config? cos most boards have a slightly broader nose and narrower tail. from your description, you sound as though you've got your bindings facing more back than front (+12/-15)?
i'm also concerned that you've needed to chop bits off...? post a pic so we can decide and then we can make a guessimate on your impending death. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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paulio, Did you chop bits off your bindings, your board or perhaps yourself???????
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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The bits I chopped off were just the flappy end bits of unused rubber straps on the bindings, to get them out of the damn way.
sherlock - not a dumb question. Emabarassingly I'm probably not absolutely *100%* sure which way round the board goes. But all the visual cues from the graphics suggest I've got it right. I hold it upright and the graphic/text is the "right way up", so I assume that the top is the nose I must have got that right surely.
Nose and tail are the same width at their widest points, but the tail is more bulbous. And with the bindings in their default places, the nose is significantly longer.
I can't imagine a scenario where you'd want negative binding setback (i.e. longer tail than nose) so although not actually 100% certain, I'm at least 99.87636% sure.
But I'd still like to know about any possible consequences of a) narrowing my stance width compared to the board's intrinsic stance width. and b) is shoehorning a directional board into twin-esque dimensions the actions of a bellend?
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Sat 10-04-10 13:45; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Ok, we've been doing loads of this stuff this winter, it can be hard to explain without being face to face, but let's try.
First job is to find yourself a decent length of wood, wider than the length of your feet and around 80cm long.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Like the above.
Ok, this is the most important bit, now you shall stand on the wood, put it on the floor!!!! You might want a friend to help you.
You must relax, head up and walk on the spot, take around 20 paces. Do not look down, head up all the time.
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A protractor or something that will measure angles accurately is needed, and a pen and a strip of skirting or something similar and a ruler.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I can't wait for the next installment of this! 
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paulio, Nope that's all there is.... but do let us know how you get on. Photos at least should be provided (video definately preferable)
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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paulio, So you got your tools????
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Schuss in Boots, 
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Isn't bi-lateral toe in the way forwards?
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You know it makes sense.
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, if you hadn't done so much of it you might have been able to flog me some board boots, been fixing mine with araldite and gaffer tape for 6 weeks now. Still holding.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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AHEM
Stance WIDTH question. My angles are fine.
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Poster: A snowHead
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anarchicsaltire, Happy Birthday.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| paulio wrote: |
| a) narrowing my stance width compared to the board's intrinsic stance width. and b) is shoehorning a directional board into twin-esque dimensions the actions of a bellend? |
a) narrow stance is for losers and will make th eboard flappy
b) actions of a bellend. You're in the wrong place with regards to the sidecut, the board will ride like a sack of frogs. Get yourself a directional twin or true twin and leave the directional boards to the bearded guys.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Jonny luv plums, I shaved when the weather got warm.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I ride a 67cm stance with 2.5 deg canted footbeds, +18 -18 on a true twin jib board. Most people are around 55cm from what I've seen this winter. Wider makes the board more aggresive, gives a more stable ride and makes you look steezy. You sacrifice being able to go off piste so much with a wide stance though
The only boards I ever found that go too wide are the ICS burtons. The +35 marker points are perfect. past that you cant ollie any more. If you go stupid wide like me the canted footbeds on the bindings are a knee saver plus they give you more pop in the ollie/nollie.
I had a guy last week trying exactly what you are trying, riding a directional board as a twin by moving the rear binding in. I advised him as I did you, it will ride like shite because you are in the wrong place on the sidecut, he tried it and agreed and hired a twin. Try it though, snowboarding has no rules. I love my current board, best board I ever had imo, friends tried it and hated it.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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OK I'm going to give it an hour in a fridge and take a screwdriver with me. I've only narrowed it by a teeny bit (to about 53/54cm), so I'll see how i get on and return it to defaults if it feels crap, cheers stab.
I got fooled into buying a directional board, that's my excuse. I'd equated the description 'freestyle board' with ' it will be twin or near-twin'. Which is mostly true. Not true in all cases though, as I've found out. Burton Operator from last season btw, pre ICS. Shaun White's signature deck. Surely he occasionally rides fakie, or so I'd been led to believe bah.
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paulio, just get some skis 
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Quiet you.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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OK, sorry
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Hnag on a minute, paulio, I'm confused. Your question is about stance width (which at 53/54 doesn't sound rediculously narrow, but without knowing your vital statistics, I really don't know. Sounds a bit narrow for freestyle, mind, if you're all about the parkstyle jibjabs...) but it sounds like your concern is actually more to do with fore/aft position....? 
What are you actually likely to be doing with the thing? Would have thought that staying fairly central to the sidecut is going to make it ride better, whatever you're doing, even if you sacrifice a bit of control when riding switch.
Try what you like, though. You might like it.... Try loads of settings and see what works for you. FWIW, I'm a bit ambidextrous, and I've been fiddling around lately with a directional board, trying to make it work everywhere. I've ended up switching from a 54cm stance to 60cm, central to the manufacturer's recommendations, and i'm about 5'10". Reasonably happy that way, but please bear in mind that I am absolutely rubbish.....
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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paulio, The angles are fine? It will effect the stance width if they are a little out, also are you using a Foot bed?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Angles are fine as in "that's what I always do with them, and I like it". No footbeds.
harrisontherabbit - 90% on piste, 5% park, 5% off-piste. Thereabouts.
Fore-aft - well fore is staying where it is, and I'm bringing aft in by an inch to try and make the tail a similar length to the nose.
It's confusing, because I'm doing something daft, as has been pointed out
Maybe I should just put everything at the defaults, and forget about it.
I'm ALSO starting to worry that a) the board is a bit narrow and b) I should have bought M bindings rather than L.
What an amateur, eh.
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Good Luck.
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You know it makes sense.
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, when I got my ski boots from your old place Seb told me I could use the footbeds in my board boots. I didn't bother last season but decided to give them a go this time round on the first day of the season. By the end of the first run I was in agony with blisters on both feet. Took them out and they've stayed in the ski boots ever since.
Feet have been fine since, both sets of boots feel fine 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Swirly, 1 run, blisters?? Harsh, must be a major error somewhere. Never had this problem, could be a stance issue............ 
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Poster: A snowHead
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, yeah well one run after a 10 minute walk to the lifts but like I say they're fine in the ski boots.
I'll have a look for some wood
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Am I being took the piss out of?
I sure hope so!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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paulio, binding size depends on boot size, if the right size bindiings are too big for your board you have 3 options:
(1) Use them anyway, can be a problem if the catch on steep ground (has to be very steep though), more of a problem if you fall on something icy and it stops you getting an edge in to stop yourself sliding.
(2) Get a wider board.
(3) Get riser plates to move them above the board, you might lose some feel but can be more aggressive when carving.
You may as well carry on, only way you'll really know if this is a good or bad idea is to try it out on snow.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I'm borderline between 2 binding sizes. Burton Mission M is up to UK 10; L is 9+.
I'm 10. So I went L. Based on "9+". :S
The duck-ness of my preferred stance affords me a bit of breathing room width-wise I guess.
(2) looks favourite to be honest. Already looking. I got the operator for peanuts, and have no attachment to it (not even a leash!). I reckon I can sell it on and not make a loss. Fridge with a screwdriver: imminent.
I won't report back, as I'm aware I'm now being a bit tedious. Thanks everyone.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I WILL report back, tedious or not.
I tried the back binding on a little closer to the nose, twas alright. Could ride both ways. In the end though, I stuck it back to its default position. Normal riding seems noticeably easier. Now I must say, switch riding did feel better on the 'bellend' setting, so my experiment was a partial success, but ultimately the board as a whole feels better set up in the conventional way. And I can still ride it switch more or less.
And it looks more 'steezy'.
My beard has grown back though.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I ride the same board, with the stance set-up more or less centered. I centre the stance by moving the front binding forward though, so end up with a wider centred stance than you.
The Operator, like all(?) Burton boards has a simple radial sidecut. Since it's not tapered either, it's a twin shape board. There may be slightly different shapes to the nose & tail beyond the contact points, but pretty minimal. Basically, it's a twin - although I think you're correct in saying that the flex is directional.
No problems (other than skill limitation!) riding it either forward or switch.
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stevomcd, I had thought about moving the front one forward. Might give that a go next time!
All the gumpf about the Operator describes it as directional shape and flex... I agree that it looks quite twinny though, and some coarse measurements I took also support that idea.
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Front binding: moved forward.
Will test on Saturday.
Also, I have decided: Burton Mission bindings are, overall, cheap malfunctioning crap.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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paulio, Having read this thread all the way through and doing extensive reseach on the net and two hoursplaying with my measuring tape and protractor, and also talking to the pimple faced boarder who lives next door I have come to the conclusion that Shimmy Alcott, was right. Get some skis 
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I didn't know you lived next door to me.
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