 Poster: A snowHead
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Colin B,
Yeah confusing indeed. I don't believe the law changed last summer.
And as it stands it states the "driver" when referring to cars, and "driver and passenger" when referring to bikes. So you'd assume they'd have added "passenger" for cars as well if they meant it.
If you've only got one car and there are often 2 persons in it, it makes sense to have 2 vests... but carrying 4 vests in each car is just silly(for residents..)
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I know, but it's wrong.
Honest!
That was in 2008. It changed last year.
And it's the french.. they 'interpret' their laws..!
Honest, I know of people living in france, near my in laws, who have been done for it.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Ravensskiclub, can you give us some proof that this is wrong? I have many links which state otherwise. . All of them , and some of them are French state that the driver needs a hi-viz vest, before 2008 he/she did not require one at all. None of them say that the passengers need them too. However, I agree it would make sense if they did.
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Another point, and one I didn't know until I was reading a road atlas recently, is that you must store your flourescent jackets in the main car and not in the boot. At that point conversation ensued that if it was a hatchback then you could take off the parcel shelf to get to the boot. But if it's a saloon then I guess you couldn't. Not sure if you'd ever be fined / prosecuted for this, but a point worth knowing.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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liz09, we have one each (and one for the dog), they are stored in the back of the driver's seat/
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We didn't know this until our recent trip, we always shove everything in the boot! Ensuing in an overflowing boot, but leaving the back seat clear for coats, crisps, other people sometimes, etc etc!!!
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liz09,
Indeed the article of law does actually state the hi-viz jackets must be within hand reach...
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why would anyone have a high-vis vest and then bury it in the boot? 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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probably because it's the law, but in reality, you never think you'll really need it. Bit like snow chains, they're usually at the bottom of our boot, ensuing in a cold few minutes when you really need them to be at the top!!
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I always put mine over the back of the passenger seat which is empty. I think the warning triangle should be inside the car too.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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anyone that isn't so sensible like to come along!! 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I think the warning triangle should be inside the car too
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Mine is in a special holder thing in the boot, right by the lock/latch. Even if the boot it completely full it is readily accessible, plus the hatch has extra reflective bits when raised.
My hi-viz is usually by the driver's seat, or on a small bonus shelf under the glove box (does any one actually keep gloves in a glovebox?)
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Helen,
I can't give you 'proof'.
But I can only tell you what I know from travelling and driving in france, and also my in laws that live there, friends that live there and who have to live with the french laws and tell me what actually happens there.
Up to you, but if you want to just get one jacket and keep it in the boot... then you crack on.
Personally I'll spend the extra £6 and get extra jackets for my passengers....
but hey you do what you want.
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You know it makes sense.
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We have two of the hi viz vests in the front of each car that we bring to France. Never had to use them here but a couple of years ago we had arrived back at Portsmouth and then had to stop near Chichester to help an old biddy who had broken down in the middle of a dark but busy road. We then fully appreciated the benefit of being seen clearly. Seems such a small outlay to have them, and it really does make sense to keep them right at hand as they are so small and take up so little room.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Ravensskiclub, Helen has already said she has a vest even for the dog. But as far as the law is concerned, I think you're wrong. See, for example http://www.gilet-triangle-securite.com/ If even the people flogging them says it's only the driver needs one......
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Poster: A snowHead
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Ravensskiclub, I also said they were in the car not in the boot.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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It beats me that you see Frenchmen (who presumably have one in their car) putting on chains in poor visibility in hazardous situations without putting the vest on. And usually 300 yards after the "aire de chainage" where they could have pulled right off the road to do it.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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pam w,
You're suprised Frenchmen do not follow the rules???
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I wonder if it's necessary to have replacement headlight bulbs for cars with High Intensity Discharge (Xenon) headlights? BMW want £130 plus VAT per bulb for the ones on our Mini - that's a little steep for a spare! They can be found for about £60, but even so ...
bar shaker, your bulbs are dealer change only? When I had a Porsche they were very easy to change using the special tool in the toolkit - open front boot, insert tool into wing and twist, and the entire headlight unit slides forwards on rails out of the car. You then take it inside into the warm and the light and change the bulb at your leisure. Great design.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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For clarity ( not that anyone cares about facts when it comes to France/ the French).
No laws have changed re:vests-- still only one and in reach ( I asked my neighbour who's a traffic cop -- well, noone else talks to them).
pam w,  It surprises you ? Surely they deliberately drive past just for that reason!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
When I had a Porsche
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When I had one, I always had a little man to do such jobs.
Agenterre, Kruisler, no it doesn't surprise me that they break the rules, but the death wish is a little surprising, quand meme.
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You know what?
I might be wrong... however as there was a discussion about how many hi viz there should be in a car I offered my advice based upon MY experience in France.
In MY experience, (and my in laws experience, and my friends experience, who all LIVE in France..) the vehicle requires one for each passenger, stowed in a place where they can be accessed without leaving the vehicle.
The law came in in July 2008. It was amended last year. I cannot find any documentation to the fact...but there you go.
In France I often see FRENCH drivers with 4 hi viz tucked in the rear seats . I wonder why? Do they perhaps have a passion for yellow fluoresence? Is it a new Jean Paul Gaultier fashion whimsy? I don't know...
I do know that French police, if they want to, will stop british cars, and other nationalities, to do spot checks, as is their right.
What with them being the law, and the ones who apply and interpret the law.
Now one can either..
produce the prerequisite number of jackets, triangles, bulbs, flares, sattellite tracking distress beacons, defibrillators and Saint Bernard dogs,
have a nice chat with the Gendarme and go on ones way....
OR
argue the toss with a print out of the AA's travel advice pdf document..
"but look here my man, the AA clearly states the DRIVER...give me my car keys back...I say... take your hands off me...now there's no need for handcuffs.."
But that's just MY advice.
But you know what? For the cost of 3 or 4 extra jackets, (oh look ! Only £2.14 each!- http://www.highvizshop.co.uk) I'd rather stick the them in the car and get on with my holiday.
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Ravensskiclub,
I understand what your/your in-laws experience is. And I think you input is appreciated and valid. You just happen to be in the minority in this case and people (most of them with extensive experience of driving and living in France) are politely indicating their own experience. No one is rolling their eyes at what you're saying, no need to roll yours because people disagree with you.
My experience differs. I am, as mentionned before, French. As far as I've seen, none of my family (and that is a reasonnably sized sample of French people.. especially on my mother's side  ) carry more than one, on occasions two, hi-viz jackets in their vehicles, even if they carry more passengers in their vehicle. Same goes with my friends.....
The other thing to bear in mind is that there is a difference in what the law makes compulsory and what is sensible practice.
As the law sees it, the jackets are supposed to be for the people that come out of the vehicle and stay round it. Hence it make sense to ask a biker and his passenger to both wear the jackets as they're both "out of the vehicle". By the same token, there are no legal requirements for car passengers to leave the vehicle when it breaks down/is stopped by the road side. It is highly recommended in practice (especially on motorways) but it is not a legal requirement. So it would no make sense I believe to legally require a jacket for each passengers. Hence why the law is the way it is now..
In real life, it might well make sense to carry as many jackets as one wishes...but the police cannot fine you if you don't.
Despite what you keep saying, the law has not changed last year. The link I provided, is the official government site for this and would not be that far out of date. At best (for your theory) some amendment was passed some time last year, and is now waiting to be "published" in the official journal. I don't believe that is the case, but should it be, it is not applicable (and the cops cannot fine you) until it is published. Hence whoever you/heard of that was fined for this could fight the fine.
It wouldn't the 1st time the cops git it wrong. Some guy recently got fined for speeding, ticket saying he was doing 51km/h in 50km/h limit zone, to find out the road he was "caught" on had a 70km/h limit.
As a yound driver, I was reprimanded (although thankfully not fined) by a gendarme (my 1st spot check ever..), for not sticking the proof of insurance on the right side on the windscreen ( I promptly told my parents off as it was their car). You get idiots and jobsworth in every walk of life.
So should some one carry several hi-viz jackets: legally no, but it doesn't mean it's not the right thing to do anyway..
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