 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Lots of big corniches around the savoie area due to wind loading. The authourities were so worried that monday evening helicopters were used to drop explosives on the corniches and destroy them!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Removed. The facts previously posted here are more or less adequately described in Brian's post below.
This story was giving rise to improper speculation about the culpability of the piste management service and of other skiers.
It is wihdrawn.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Mon 12-04-10 9:41; edited 1 time in total
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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planeurge, It worries me that you didnt have much confidence in the piste service. Can you name the resort ?. Sounds like you were lucky to escape from that.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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BergenBergen, I have a problem there. I am a property owner in the resort, and the stakeholders in the system are my neighbours. They did get dogs out subsequently. I guess, given their resources, their response was what you might expect.
It is a very small station.
(Edited.)
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Mon 12-04-10 9:43; edited 2 times in total
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planeurge, Thanks for an interesting account. In the 3V two weeks ago we saw the remnants of an avalanche that had intruded onto the piste. From a distance it looked like nothing, close up it would clearly have taken anyone in it's path.
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planeurge, you were very unlucky to be caught in an avalanche on piste - though as you say, you could have been unluckier still. Must have been a terrifying experience. It sounds as though the resort had not taken enough trouble to close pistes which could not be reasonably secured. I'm shocked that nobody came to help you. 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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planeurge, We once saw an avalanche cross a piste in a 'small' resort while riding a chair lift up. Visibility was poor at the time but we could see that no one was caught. At the top the liftie was aware a slide had occured but could not see it. He didnt stop to ask us what we had seen but maybe he expected us to raise the alarm if someone had been caught. Either way, I still find it disconcerting.
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Planeurge,
Sorry to hear of your close call but at least it was only a close call and good to hear that you intend skiing again next year.
I strongly recommend reading up more on pistehors.com and buying a few books on snow composition and avalanches and off piste skiing. You know already that you were lucky and if you are spending time off piste you and your fellow skiers should have beepers, shovels & probes and know how to use them.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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horgand, did you read the thread before you posted that? Planeurge was avalanched on piste.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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horgand, Thanks for the advice. I fully intend doing the reading bit. In fact I have Fredston and Fesler's book beside me. I have also read a lot of useful stuff, posted amongst other by yourself, on this forum. I might summarise it one day. As for the beepers and shovels, they won't help much when I am skiing through the trees on my own. I do not think I am taking as much risk as Weathercam in his groups, or snowball in his. And that is not to disparage either of them. See my opening comments.
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pam w, did you? 
| planeurge wrote: |
| I do not ski seriously off piste. But I do venture a few hundred meters from it from time to time. I carry no safety equipment except a mobile phone.. |
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brian
brian
Guest
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planeurge, have you considered an abs? The only thing that's stopped me getting one so far is the price, but that changed with the BCA Float 30 at $500 this year. They're supposed to be bringing out one with a ski carry system for next winter. I think that might be my next big purchase.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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arv, yes, I did. He was avalanched on piste. He sometimes ventures a little way off the piste without equipment. So do I - but only in areas where there is essentially no risk. Low gradients, nothing much above me. I know the area quite well and there are essentially two areas which can avalanche - and I don't ski on either of them (because they are too steep for my meagre skills, quite apart from the avalanche risk). I know some people say there is "no such thing as a little bit of off piste" but I would challenge that. In some places, some days, there is such a thing (not from the insurance point of view, but from the safety/avalanche point of view). I'm sure there are some places where the risk of being avalanched on piste is greater than the risk off-piste here. I am equally sure that I'm in greater danger every time I get behind the wheel of my car and in far greater danger skiing on a busy piste full of people skiing rather faster than they should.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I don't necessarily disagree with you but I think horgand's advice was valid and well placed.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I carry my gear with me, because if I happened to be close enough to render some assistance I would not be able to forgive myself if I had nothing to search, probe or dig with. I hope others feel the same, because one day it may be me who is buried.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Crazy story planeurge, very pleased to hear that you are OK and it hasn't put you off skiing!
| planeurge wrote: |
| No-one came to help us, although I could see skiers on the traverse three hundred meters above us. My chest hurt when I breathed. One of my cousins said his neck hurt. My skis were buried. One of my cousins' skis was broken. We walked off the mountain. |
Sounds like the guys above you may have set it off. Unreal that nobody came to help you.
Ski resorts try their best but with avalanches nobody can be 100% right all of the time. Hopefully the resort in question will reevaluate their avalanche terrain and either control trigger more slides or close areas when needed.
This question may sound churlish, but was the piste you were on was open at the time?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Dypcdiver wrote: |
| I carry my gear with me, because if I happened to be close enough to render some assistance I would not be able to forgive myself if I had nothing to search, probe or dig with. I hope others feel the same, because one day it may be me who is buried. |
Very good point, and I try to do the same.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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parlor, Yes, all the pistes were open. To be fair, I guess that the skiers above were probably of modest competence, and found their progress obstructed by the avalanche debris.
I don't disagree with anything posted in response to my story - except possibly the suggestion that I have been lucky! How do you measure that? Well, I suppose I have been skiing for thirty years without serious injury... And the orthopaedic surgeon here had the same opinion. "Buy a lottery ticket," was his advice. (I didn't take it.)
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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planeurge, you say your chest hurt, but you walked off the mountain. Then later you are in hospital. What are your injuries?
I have put my own experience of being in an avalanche on here before (I was with a guide). Luckily I was uninjured.
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Lizzard, he's a lucky boy. Lucky that his mates knew where he was and raised the alarm, and that he got such skilled rescue and medical attention.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Lizzard, lots of interesting points in that story. let's hope the lad pulls through
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snowball, Compression fracture of a vertebra. Lie horizontal until a brace constructed (four days, but including weekend when nothing much happens in hospitals); then wear brace for 2-3 months (Swiss prescription), or 6 weeks (English prescription.) I had thought I was bruised but uninjured, but local policeman called ambulance.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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planeurge, was there an insurance claim resulting from this. if so, how did the company respond ?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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planeurge, hope the treatment ends satisfactorily... Good luck. Backs need looking after long-term.
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Arno, yes. Maybe it was as well he wasn't strapped into his board - are you better off without heavy encumbrances on the feet in an avalanche? Would that have been why the rescuers went in on foot? Scary stuff. I was glad that when my son spent a season in Val D'Isere he flat-shared with a ski instructor, who would have helped educate him about the risks.
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You know it makes sense.
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pam w, as I read it (my French isn't great so maybe i got the wrong end of the stick) the theory is that he got cliffed out and had to take his board off to walk back up. this is a situation where (IMV) boards are inherently more dangerous than skis because you can side step on skis which is a much safer thing to do esp is the snow is steep and hard. it is then thought that he got avalanched from above which washed him over the cliff. who knows whether the avalanche would have been big enough to bury him but the point is that it doesn't need to be a big avalanche to knock you off your feet. if you have a nice run-out below it may be annoying but no big deal, but if you're standing above a cliff it can be fatal
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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planeurge, good to hear that you are on the mend, and hope all goes well in the future. I usually try to keep out of avalanche threads however.
I am glad that you are now reading up on snow and avalanche risks etc. I hope that your quotes
| Quote: |
I do venture a few hundred meters from it from time to time. I carry no safety equipment except a mobile phone. But, as I often ski solo, there would not be any point in carrying any equipment
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after your reading makes you think again about this.
This season has seen a great deal of avalanche activity, due to the weather changes, I was in Les Arc only a few days ago, 5 people were hit on piste by an avalanche, we saw many small full deepth slides only meters from the piste, and in areas and angles that do not normally avalanche.
Dypcdiver,
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I carry my gear with me, because if I happened to be close enough to render some assistance I would not be able to forgive myself if I had nothing to search, probe or dig with. I hope others feel the same, because one day it may be me who is buried.
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this is so correct, there is also a quote above about being more risky driving a car, come on!! we take lessons on how to drive and do not go out on a motorway the first time we drive.
However many skiers and boarders do by going off piste with little or no knowledge of the snow and conditions. I am really glad that you are looking into the risks more and more and hope that next season, with more knowledge under your belt you will see that you have been, lucky this time. I to have been skiing for more than 30 years, I count myself lucky that I survived a small avalanche 30 years ago when I did not know better.
I also hope that others reading this thread will do the same and get MORE advise and knowledge about the risks involved of going just a few meters from the piste.
Sorry for the small rant and get well soon.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Arno, off-topic - but following on from your remarks about the border taking his board of, I understand that's what happened in the fatal accident with the SCGB rep's party at Verbier a couple of seasons or so ago.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Arno, yes, that's what is surmised - he took his board off to try to climb back out. But I still wonder whether, as he was then (by the look of it) hit by an avalanche set off by skiers above (who couldn't see him) he might have been safer without it. All depends, I suppose. I remember reading on SHs a few years ago a scary story of someone avalanched very near a piste. Stayd on his feet (on a board) but then couldn't move because the concrete-like snow was then over knee deep and he had to dig down to his board.
And I still maintain without any hesitation that given the amount I ski, and the amount I drive, I am in greater danger behind the wheel of a car. I have driven with no accidents (well, I did hit a cow once....) since 1964 but do not kid myself that it won't happen.....
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brian
brian
Guest
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Somewhat worrying:
"Avalanche sur le domaine skiable
L'appel de la neige inviolée semble pourtant n'avoir joué aucun rôle dans une troisième avalanche, survenue samedi après-midi, à environ 2350 m d'altitude. La coulée est parvenue sur l'une des pistes du petit domaine skiable, emportant cinq skieurs.
Fort heureusement, ces trois Anglais et deux Suisses ont pu se dégager seuls où avec l'aide d'autres clients. Les chiens d'avalanche dépêchés sur place n'ont pas eu à intervenir. Les trois Britanniques, légèrement blessés, ont été conduits à l'hôpital. "Mais tout le monde a pu descendre en télésiège. Ce n'était pas si grave", précise Jean-Pascal Tornay, directeur des remontées mécaniques. Selon lui, la couche de neige n'excédait pas 1 m 50 d'épaisseur.
Comment expliquer qu'une avalanche ait pu finir sa course sur un secteur balisé? Un juge d'instruction était sur place, hier, pour enquêter. La police valaisanne parle à cette heure de "causes indéterminées". Jean-Pascal Tornay, lui, affirme que la coulée n'a pas été déclenchée par des skieurs.
"Nous avions sécurisé tous les couloirs à la dynamite, comme il se doit, explique-t-il. Y compris à l'endroit d'où cette avalanche est finalement partie. C'est la malchance." L'homme se dit soulagé de l'issue heureuse de l'accident, "très inhabituel" dans le domaine skiable qu'il dirige."
So they don't think it was set off by other skiers and they had dynamited the area, including the place the slide was triggered from. planeurge might have cause to argue with "Ce n'était pas si grave"! 
Edited at planeurge's request to remove the name of the station in question.
Last edited by brian on Thu 8-04-10 14:06; edited 1 time in total
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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pam w, we'll probably never know but you do hear that boards create issues because they do not release as easily as skis in a slide
achilles, that was my impression but that event is somewhat shrouded in mystery. there have certainly been a few instances of boarders getting stuck above cliff bands at Alpe d'Huez, taking their boards off and subsequently falling to death or injury. i actually saw the late great Doug Coombes help a boarder out of that sort of situation a few years back
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Arno wrote: |
| there have certainly been a few instances of boarders getting stuck above cliff bands at Alpe d'Huez, taking their boards off and subsequently falling to death or injury. |
At the risk of going more of topic, that's why I quite often take an axe and/or crampons in my bag when boarding anything exposed, much less likely to slip if you have to take the board off. Even on hairy bootpacks, if the snow is hard/icy in ski boots you can kick steps, in board boots you'll just get sore toes (and then fall off).
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Arno,
a cruel irony that DG died himself falling off an icey cliff trying to find his friend 
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sarep, whoops yes DC 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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brian, well armed with all those words it's not hard to find the name of the station on google; but I won't spoil the party. It sounds as though they should have closed some of the pistes.
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Some of the best steep tree skiing in that resort...
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