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Kappl/ Ischgl to St Anton Lift

 Poster: A snowHead
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Does nyone know what the latest is with regard to the planned link from Kappl (effectively Ischgl area) to St Anton via Rendl?

I know it was planned to get this in place for next season 10/11 but I havent seen any news on this for ages and wonder if things have progressed? The new mega lift Rendlbahn replacing the old one, with links to Galzigbahn and thus opening up Galzig to Ischgl skiers/ boarders is presumably part of the master-plan, anyone shed any light on whether its likely to be done for next season?
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That would be one AWESOME ski area...
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Markymark29, Was in Kappl earlier this year and the locals were talking about it happening over the next year or so. Think if you check back the Arlberg section of the snow report section stanton has put in some pretty informed information about it. I'm not 100% convinced that loads of Ischgl skiers will want the 'hassle' of bussing to Kappl, then skiing over to Rendl. I do think however that there will be more St Anton skiers heading over to Kappl as the link should (in theory) be much easier coming from that end. It will be some blinking area once linked though, possibly to the detriment to wee Kappl Crying or Very sad
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boabski, is pretty much on the money I reckon. The link will open a lot of area which was until only really available if you were touring. Some pros and cons to that obviously, but combined with the Rendl lift it will certainly boost St Anton's area as well as Kappl's. Not quite as much as the idea it would link to Ischgl though which is really a bit of a red herring. I suppose people in Ishcgl might consider it for a day trip if they were out for a week? It's going to be interesting either way... Very Happy
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I was in St Anton this January and our guide thought that the project will almost certainly happen, but he said more likely for the 2011/12 season. I think he was just expressing a personal opinion, rather than quoting any definitive information.
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Projekt Dias Rendl

Its not effectively Ischgl as you will have to get a bus or Taxi from Kappl you could say it will link to the (soon to be) See,Serfaus-Fiss-Ladis area as well but that will also require a bus or taxi ride down valley to See.

The latest is that its on hold till at least 2011/12 but I reckon it will be more like 2012/13.

For St Anton the link brings nothing in real terms its only benefits Kappl.
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stanton, Surely it would benefit St Anton by extending their ski area considerably? Specially that Rendl pistes are very good, from what I heard Kappl is brilliant as well, plus there will be new trails to connect those two.
For average piste skier it could offer much more than the Galzig side.

As a day trips it might be more appealing for Ischgl customers. They could take a bus/taxi and start/finish the day in Kappl very early or late to get the full day in St Anton area.

If you start from St Anton then Ischgl seems not worth it. You will have ski all the way to Kappl and then take a taxi. Same on the way back, you have to be back early enough to catch lifts back from Kappl. So all you get in Ischgl will be a few hours midday and only if you are quick enough.
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Just booked Kappl for next years family trip Very Happy Very Happy with friends coming this time round too Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Probably best getting the most out of the area before the link wink
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Tom W wrote:
stanton, Surely it would benefit St Anton by extending their ski area considerably?


No. St Anton is big enough how big does a ski resort have to be, its only adding a few itermediate pistes thats not what St Anton is about?

There is insignificant economic benefit to St Anton.

To Kappl it will be mean they are linked to the massive Arlberg Area

All the cards arre with Kappl Lift Company & Kappl Town Council they wil benefit the most with more bed nights (numbers).
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stanton, maybe I should not speak about economic benefits.

And of course I agree "itermediate pistes thats not what St Anton is about".
But they are what St Anton is missing in my view.

Me and most of my "intermediate" friends spent majority of time in Rendl and Lech.

It is not that rare for St Anton to get a bad reviews - mostly because of crowded, not well groomed and not perfectly laid out lifts on the Galzig/Gampen side.

So surely extending the intermediate pistes of Rendl will attract those people to St Anton and leave the other slopes maybe less busy.

If I remember boabski review, Kappl has a very good terrain so for me it will be a reason to go back to St Anton.

It will just add what St Anton is lacking for some skiers/boarders - more cruisy pistes - I hope.
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Tom W, stanton, think you both have very valid points. The Arlberg ski circuit is massive already, however whilst St Anton attracts skiers at a higher than resort average standard, not everyone that goes there likes to venture off piste or likes the bumps. The piste maintainence in Lech and Rendl are far better (assuming of course you like your pistes pisted) than St Anton. Kappl has good piste maintenance too. Therefore the link will save those who prefer smooth pistes the 'hassle' of going to Lech.
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We dont need anymore intermediate pistes or any more grooming in St Anton Skullie

Upto around 15 years ago grooming was unheard of in St Anton except for a few runs.

If you want groomers then ski in Lech, Ischgl or one of the other 300+ ski areas in Austria.

STOP THE BRUTAL GROOMING.
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stanton, Who is the "We" you speak for? There is way more money in providing beginner and intermediate terrain and facilities than in catering for the experts. Opening up more terrain out past Rendl does not have an adverse affect on the existing advanced/expert areas but could reduce the crowds.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
stanton,
Quote:
Upto around 15 years ago grooming was unheard of in St Anton except for a few runs.
Utter Tosh rolling eyes I'm not sure where you were skiing, but the runs in St.Anton that get groomed today were also getting groomed 25 years ago, when I first started skiing there!
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Steilhang wrote:
stanton,
Quote:
Upto around 15 years ago grooming was unheard of in St Anton except for a few runs.
Utter Tosh rolling eyes I'm not sure where you were skiing, but the runs in St.Anton that get groomed today were also getting groomed 25 years ago, when I first started skiing there!



Your memory is fading then.

I can give you some examples of runs that are groomed now & never were.

Fang
SchindlerKar
Black Run 10
Arlenmader (All runs)

Theres more...

Maybe it was 25 or more when most runs were like Ski Routes I cant remember I been skiing there alot more years than that !
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stanton, sorry mate but my memory serves me just fine!
Schindlerkar has been pisted from time to time right back as far as I can remember, i.e 1985! Not always, but sometimes. Arlenmäder didn't even exist in it's present form until a few years ago. It used to be a drag lift only taking you up to the top of Happy Valley, and in fact I also distinctly remember it sometimes being pisted and sometimes not. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't number 10 the run that takes you from the top of Galzig/Zammermoosbahn down to the Schindlergratbahn or into Happy Valley...? I do think that they have always pisted that. Correct me if I'm wrong of course.
Fang I'm not so sure about. The chairlift there has only existed for a few years. Could be that they are now pisteing where they were not before. It's quite shocking to be sure.

Anyway, I think it's a bit hard to argue that 'grooming was unheard of 15 years ago'... Don't you think Puzzled
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Steilhang wrote:
Anyway, I think it's a bit hard to argue that 'grooming was unheard of 15 years ago'... Don't you think Puzzled


Like I said it may of been 25 but whatever grooming has mulltiplied by a huge factor in the last few years & IMO got out of control.

ShindlerKar was rarely pisted only packed down for avalanche control.

Piste 10 was not always pisted as they never had any Winch Cats & they have even have bulldozed this slope in the last 3 summers to make it easier, level & more accommodating.

The Fang was very narrow at the top (Gampen) the slope was widened & never pisted,just nice big moguls. It was also bit of a hidden Powder Stash.
That all changed when they staged the World Championships in 2001.

Arlenmader area was runied after they built the new chair. Because it was a T Bar very few folk went there. You could could ski fresh tracks here for days after a dump, now its been made easy to access & egress it get skied out in half a day. So here again another ski route & Powder Stash ruined with groomed Pistes.


I have not even talked about the increase in grooming on Rendl !!
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While I can't offer any opinion on when grooming commenced isn't it inevitable that a major resort such as St Anton will want to attract as many people as possible and that by grooming a bigger area they attract the masses of people who only ever ski groomed pistes rather than just the off piste gnarlies. Other resorts such as La Grave and Arolla, with limited lifts, appeal less to the piste cruisers for obvious reasons but offer spectactualr off piste opportunities.

I'm not supporting it as right or wrong, merely as inevitable.
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just giving this a bump as I was wondering if this is still going ahead or not. have done a search on here and it seems it hasnt been mentioned since the last post here which is almost 12 months ago. please point me in the right direction if there is a new post on this.
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All I have found in the (German) alpinforum.com is a remark this month that the Kappl/Rendl link hasn't been "put in the back drawer".
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it must be a long way off if theirs no news update available on line.
have to admit I wouldnt be sorry if it was put off for good as we are thinking of doing a group trip to kappl in 2012 or 13 and would imagine the in resort prices will go up a lot if the link opens. also like the idea of a seperate ski area without the thru traffic from st anton and back.
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so no body has heard anything since march 2010?
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I don't think the development is current just now, so I don't expect it to be implemented by 2012 (or even 2013). But maybe "some fine day".
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Steilhang wrote:
stanton, sorry mate but my memory serves me just fine!
Schindlerkar has been pisted from time to time right back as far as I can remember, i.e 1985! Not always, but sometimes. Arlenmäder didn't even exist in it's present form until a few years ago. It used to be a drag lift only taking you up to the top of Happy Valley, and in fact I also distinctly remember it sometimes being pisted and sometimes not. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't number 10 the run that takes you from the top of Galzig/Zammermoosbahn down to the Schindlergratbahn or into Happy Valley...? I do think that they have always pisted that. Correct me if I'm wrong of course.
Fang I'm not so sure about. The chairlift there has only existed for a few years. Could be that they are now pisteing where they were not before. It's quite shocking to be sure.

Anyway, I think it's a bit hard to argue that 'grooming was unheard of 15 years ago'... Don't you think Puzzled


I first skied Schindlerkar in 1984. I took the Schlndlergratbahn, it looked so innocuous from the bottom station, but at the top I found there was no way forward. The snow on the ridge path forward was full of stones. Or was it the stones were full of snow. The only choice was over my right shoulder. Steeeeeep moguls. As I jumped into each turn I had to check that I was not going to land on someones head below me. Each mogul turn dropped 1.5 metres. Someones feet were inches from my head too. It got much easier after about 10 turns. They certainly have shoved the earth around since then and the ridge path forward is always passable now.

We observed that a line of piste bashers would come up the Blue 1 path in the late afternnoon just as everyone was returning to the village . I think they went up to Gampen for a drink before returning. We used to joke that they only made the journey up so that skiers realised St Anton had piste bashers but didn't use them. Oh and to terrify skiers who could not ski in control. They certainly had no effect on the moguls around the resort.
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Lift World http://www.seilbahntechnik.net/en/lifts/projects/page1.htm shows a lift called "Sesselbahn Rossfallscharte" a 6 seater detachable chairlift with hood for construction during 2012 (thus open for 2012/2013). But the construction is shown as unconfirmed and lift manufacturer as unknown. Rossfallscharte is further south along the same slope as Riffelscharte and to the south of Rendlspitze. Rossfallscharte is the logical location for a lift for entry into the head of the Malfontal valley. A lift up from the head of the Malfontal valley would access the Kappl system and a lift back from the head of the Malfontal valley up to Rossfallscharte would enable Kappl access to Rendl.

If this construction goes ahead in 2012 it would indicate the the Dias-Rendl project linking Rendl to Kappl is serious. If not it was just another proposal that did not get guernsey.

The same page of Lift World shows Dias - Rendl officially confirmed for construction during 2013. That would mean that even if the project proceeds the link to Kappl will not be available before at least the 2013/2014 season.

As others have indicated the big beneficiaries of such a project would be Kappl hoteliers. Each day Kappl skiers would be able to ski a Kappl ski area enlarged by the Rendl system or catch the bus (free on the lift pass) up to Ischgl.
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The same page at Lift world http://www.seilbahntechnik.net/en/lifts/projects/page1.htm shows Zurs Trittkopfbahn I and Trittkopfbahn II as 8 seater detachable gondolas officially confirmed for construction during 2013 (open in 2013/2014?) but the lift manufacturer is unknown. When things are certain everything becomes known. I don't read German but I get a jist that the Trittkopfbahn is proposed to be replaced via an alternate route of 2 lifts with a connection up from Alpe Rauz to the mid station thrown in. Seems a big stretch to say we are replacing an old lift with a new one.

However I wont complain. For an old man with arthritis who can't run or jump, (but due to great drugs can sort of ski if he avoids moguls) it would seem much better than catching the oversubscribed post bus to Zurs. I wont get knocked to the ground in the crush.

The Alpe Rauz - Albonasattel lift is also shown as an 8 seater detachable gondola officially confirmed for construction during 2013 (open in 2013/2014?) but the lift manufacturer is unknown.

Season 2013/2014 is looking like a massive change in St Anton if both the Kappl link and lifts out of Alpe Rauz to Zurs and Albona all come alive at once. But then nothing may happen!!
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If Kappl and Ischgl seriously wanted to link by ski lifts they may choose to use the tributary valley (Visnitzbach) that comes down from near the tops of the Visnitzbahn and Grivaleabahn (both in Switzerland). This valley falls gently to the north and then empties steeply into the main Paznaun valley at Kappl.
An 8 kilometre long Toofy Grin gondola should do the trick and turn the track along the valley floor into a piste.

Only a few minor hinderances - not allowed by law and may have to dodge a few avalanches.
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There is the potential for teh Arlberg to be a massive linked area, especially once the link with Warth gets completed (Wiebermahd lift replacement is well under way).
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A few years ago there was some "chatter" from Ischgl that they wanted to build a railway tunnel to St Anton (OEBB) to to relieve commuter car traffic in the Paznauntal.

http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=1276666&highlight=ischgl++anton+tunnel#1276666

St Anton does not want to turn into another Ischgl the area can sell itself alone on its tradition,heritage, cradle of skiing, Off Piste, World famous Ski Schoools.

Brotherhood of St Christoph

First Skiers


http://youtube.com/v/KOH1Mvy0nfA


http://youtube.com/v/vLfr5jYB7a8

As for Projekt Dias (Rendl,Kappl) this still has hurdles "Umweltverträglichkeitsprüfung" (UVP) or (EIA) enviromental impact assesment & finalise disccusions with the landowners (Pettneu) in the Monfontal. Its not just lifts. Snowmaking pipelines , Saftey Avalanche barriers & controls (gasex) have to be installed.



I think 2014 would be the very earliest but IMO another prime bit of Off Piste Skiing will be lost.
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Apologies for bumping an old thread but we're considering going to Ischgl again next year and one of my friends has been told there will be a new lift being built that will link up Ischgl and St.Anton.
I have searched online but can't find anything, only this thread, Has my friend got his information wrong ?
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@gad, yes he has.

Perhaps he was thinking of the excellent new link from St A to Lech, which is up and running as from this season?
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red 27 wrote:
@gad, yes he has.

Perhaps he was thinking of the excellent new link from St A to Lech, which is up and running as from this season?


That's not what he was told as we know about the Lech link, he's thinking we're skiing Ischgl and St Anton in one day !

I think he must reading a Total ski brochure and believing what they put in there Laughing
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Take him right over to Warth and tell him it's Ischgl - he'll never know wink
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red 27 wrote:
Take him right over to Warth and tell him it's Ischgl - he'll never know wink


He only got back yesterday, he might recognise it!

Looking at Google Earth , Kappl to the rendle area isn't that far away but my exhaustive search (on here mostly ) tells me that's not happening anytime soon. Confused
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Planned Project Dias linking St Anton & Kappl
Malfon I & II = 8 person Gondola lift (monocable circulating ropeway)
Rossfall = 6 person High speed chairlift (detachable) with bubble

Year of completion 2019 so I assume ready for 2020 season.

Source = http://www.skiresort.info/ski-resort/kappl/innovations/
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The Final say is still in the courts in Vienna.

It is almost 99% certain it will happen.

However for us diehard offpiste skiers we object 100% .
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I would not get too depressed yet. Talking to locals, it has been, "Definitely next year, or the year after...", for many years now. I will believe it, when I see construction. That said, I would prefer it did not happen.

I would not however mind seeing Riffel 1 & 2 replaced by chairs with bubbles. I guess that will not happen while Kappl remains a possibility.
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Kappl has to build a new (replacement )10 man gondola (diasbahn)first, this could happen in parrallel but i doubt it.

As i said its 99% certain (Rendl/Kappl) to happen.

Therefore if you want to ski (off piste) Malfontal before it becomes a regular tourist ski route do it next season !!
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