 Poster: A snowHead
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easiski, T? No idea. I drink coffee. BTW Any chance you could stop casting your aspersions about me? I did actually say that compared to me, Ms Allcot's a blimmin wonder (or something to that effect). Compared to most of people posting on Snowheads she's absolutley amazing (I am willing to be proven wrong  !).
But in terms of international racing, which incidentally is what C4 focuses on, for all she *might* achieve on the world circuit Ms Allcott's not achieved it yet. Until then?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Manda wrote: |
| easiski, T? No idea. I drink coffee. |
Time to switch to decaff I think.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Well, I would......
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Well, I would......
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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worth saying twice, I thought 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Manda, The point is that you were suggesting she's not very good because she's not in the top 10 in the world. This is grossly unfair to her as a skier. The difference in ability level between most WC racers (top 100 or so) and NATIONAL ski teachers is about the same as the difference between National ski teachers and first day beginners. There are literally thousands of budding young racers living in the alps and working really hard to get to WC level, most of them never do. Those that do mostly never get to the top 50 in the world. For a Brit skier to get to top 50, never mind top 30 is ABSOLUTELY AMAZING. It shows years of dedication and seriously hard work.
If you're a dedicated C4 viewer (and yes, we do have satellite TV in the alps), you'll have seen her feet - SHE WAS PUTTING SKI BOOTS ON THOSE FEET EVERY DAY. I had a slightly less serious do with the same problem - 2 years later my feet are nearly normal. It hurts. She skis. To suggest that she's not that good is frankly apalling. What about all those fourth division footballers?? They're not nearly so high up the world rankings, but no-one's saying they're rubbish?????
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| Quote: |
| What about all those fourth division footballers?? |
League Two, please. Some of them are awful. Well, relatively speaking - they're still in the top 2000(ish) in the country.
Anyway, you've got to remember that to some people, if you're not in the top ten, you're rubbish - which makes most sports people rubbish. Would the comparisons to Kournikova happen if she wasn't pretty? Even if she was still the UK's top skier (which she is) so still received the same C4 attention (as she deserves to, it being ski coverage for the British consumption)? There seems to be a denigration due to attractiveness at work.
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...and that definitely doesn't happen to League 2 footballers!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Watched Chemmy ski the giant slalom today in the British Championships in Meribel. Appalling conditions, but she cruised to a win, virtually unchallenged. She said she didn't ski too well, with the usual high level of expectation at the Brit races, but she really was in a class of her own.
Last week she raced the Downhill in the Swiss nationals, taking second place, less than a second behind Nadia Styger who has had one top ten and a couple of top twenty WC results this season, as well as finishing 9th in the World Ski Championships. In Chemmy's own words:
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"The Swiss couldn't believe a girl from London was coming second!"
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coming fresh to this thread I am surprised that anyone is arguing with PG. Of course her rankings will suffer if she has been missing races through injury. At that point the rankings become irrelevant and you have to look at what she was capable of when fit. PG never said she was currently ranked in the top 30 - just that her ability puts her in the top 30 in the world. Would anyone claim that Jonny Wilkinson is a not one of the top 5 place kickers of a rugby ball just bacause he has probably only kicked about 25 top level goals all season? (I made that figure up by the way so there is no point any of you pedants trying to prove me wrong!)
PS, shame i didn't read this thread earlier as I knew who Steve Peat is too - but then I'm a mountain biker so it proves the point about minority sports that was being made.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| PG wrote: |
| ssh, hair-splitting's all the rage in this thread. We've done the precise end of season after injury position on WC points alone (we can all read the FIS site amazingly enough), and I explained that I was taking other results into consideration (Olympics, World Championships). So I beg to differ. Chemmy figures most definitely in the top 30 downhillers, as her results demonstrate when she is fit enough to race, even when injured (she was carrying an injury for most of the 2004/5 season, and missed races). Sorry. Ask a WC downhiller if you don't believe me. |
PG, I think you overstated your case, that's all. I am not saying that she's not a solid racer, she obviously is. However, she it not (yet?) in the class of Paerson, Kostelic, etc. When I read your statement that she's in the top 30 in the world, I thought you meant the top 30, not the top 30 of a single discipline. That's a very different statement (more like the top 120 or 150), from my perspective. The top 30 means the best 30 female alpine ski racers across all disciplines. She's not there, yet.
Regardless, though, the point is well-made by Masque at the beginning of this thread: selling one's physical attributes via simple titillation will effectively reduce the perception of one's skills, whether or not that perception is objectively fair. Why do it? I know many accomplished men and women who recognize the impropriety of such commercialization.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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ssh, "selling one's physical attributes via simple titillation will effectively reduce the perception of one's skills" As per Manda, 's comments - your point is proved! 
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ssh,
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The top 30 means the best 30 female alpine ski racers across all disciplines. She's not there, yet.
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It means what I said it meant. Alcott is first and foremost a downhiller, as anyone who follows the circuit knows (and I referred to the downhill in my first post), so I clearly was writing about her status in the speed events.
However let's take your own logic a little further. You define the best by performance "across all disciplines". Does that mean Michael Johnson wasn't no. 1 in the world because he didn't do the 800, the 400 hurdles, the long jump, etc? Loads more examples spring to mind, in many sports. Athletes specialise. Even Bode Miller specialises - you don't see him racing skierX, taking part in freeride competitions, nordic combined, etc.
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much  on Fri 25-03-05 14:22; edited 2 times in total
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You know it makes sense.
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easiski,
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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PG, spoken like a true racing fan. But for me, and I suspect 95% of the skiing populous, she is a pretty little also ran. Of course she is a credible sportswoman, of course she is brilliant compared to all of us, but she ain't amazing or supurb or excellent! She's just plain old very good.
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Poster: A snowHead
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The original term you used instead of "racing fan" - "fanboy" - was so much more troll-like, TB. Keep trying.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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easiski, I thought it was the paparazzi photographing his children that was making him think about a return to England not the fact that he hasn't done well for Real Madrid, or is that just "Excuseitus" on the Beckhams part.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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As I don't get channel 4 over here, please can somone just post some pictures so I can judge for myself whether Chemmy is a great athlete 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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PG, I know, I know, anyone who dares to disagree with you is a troll...put another record on.
easiski, Bekham is overrated. But how many footballers are there and how many ski racers?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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hibernia, a stink of trolls
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To put things in a lighter frame, I'd love to explain Archimedes principles to Chemmy next time she feels the need to use a hot tub
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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When an object is fully or partially immersed in a fluid, the apparent loss in weight is equal to the weight of the fluid displaced.
D G Orf, to be honest, it's not the greatest of chat up lines. 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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laundryman, hey at least it would upgrade the tone of the program, educational to
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hibernia, I posted a similar link in a thread I started devoted to trolls in 'Suggestions' ("What is a troll?") a while back...
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You know it makes sense.
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Tim Brown, I have no idea how many ski racers there are - many, many thousands - undoubtedly more than you think if the only racing you get to watch is the WC TV coverage. PG might know where to find out how many FIS licences are issued in a year though.
The point is that anyone in any sport who is in the top 50 in the world is exceptional. Just because they're not in the top 10 desn't mean they're not meritorious (which has been suggested).
Apart from that the top 50 in football (probably the top 20,000 there), golf, tennis and many other sports all earn a decent whack, can create a business after their sporting career is over etc. What about the skiers? How many of them make anything to fall back on? I think it's sad that Chemmy (or her publiciists) feel she has to do this sort of diary stuff (including hot tubs).
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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As the author of this thread I’ve been fascinated by its progression from me having a whinge about crass titillation wasting my viewing time and Ms Alcott’s career, to arguing about her worth as a skier.
If anything illustrates how our perceptions are formed by the public face of a personality this thread QED.
Ms Alcott IS a World Class skier, competing at a level that few attain, yet here we are pedantically picking scabs over exactly where in a very small group (relatively) of elite athletes she stands. All the time undermining the fact that she is part of that elite group.
I really feel that she’s been a party to this argument simply by producing the vacuous crap that was her ‘diary’.
She has good relationships with her top competitors, they all share training time and experience, she has an extraordinary ability (however you want to misstate it) there is no reason at all that given the opportunity she could be a regular top 10 placeholder in all her disciplines.
So . . . a little less pointless nit picking personal point scoring please and a little more thought about how we can constructively support our sportsmen and women. This thread is my way of highlighting how poorly served they are by their publicity machines.
Though without her input to this thread it’s impossible to see the complete picture . . . should I invite her comments? Or close the thread?
JohnB 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Masque, if you can get her comments please do so. I'd love to know what an earth persuaded her to produce the "Diary" my suspicion was that it was smoething the program makers came up with so they could get away with showing less skiing
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I think it would be possible to get her views - Neil of Racer Ready (who contributes a lot of the stuff to snowRacers) knows her pretty well. Her season's pretty much over now, so she has time to breathe at last. I'm sure she would be interested in this thread.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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There's a an email link in her website, when I've managed to construct an invitation to comment here that doesn't just p¡ss her off, I'll post it . . . unless an invitation from a third party comes first (yes, just call me 'white meat with taragon and garlic').
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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If she reads this thread I can't imagine it will encourage her to contribute to Snowheads. As Masque so accurately put it, "pedantically picking scabs" over her skiing ability which nobody here on snowheads (with the exception of two people) will ever achieve is likely to be very offensive to Chemmy.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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rob@rar.org.uk, I don't think my inaugural post was ‘inoffensive’, hence my slight reluctance to approach her directly for her viewpoint. It’s as this thread has developed have I felt that we need to either close it down or become more informed about the circumstances this thread is centred around.
Only Ms. Alcott herself can do that and I’m certain that reading a lot of this drivel would NOT be a positive experience for her.
Perhaps it might be more constructive to have comment from those who advise her, insulating her from some of the less than flattering viewpoints expressed. The formation of those viewpoints assisted by the publicity machine itself.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Mon 28-03-05 14:37; edited 1 time in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Masque, it wasn't your first post that I was referring to, but subsequent posts when the thread morphed into a discussion of her skiing abilities. In my book anybody who regularly competes at the highest level of their chosen sport deserves respect from those who either compete at a lower level or indulge in a bit of sporty recreation.
In other snowhead threads about ski racing I argued that a bit more coverage of the skiers as indivduals rather than just lycra-suited blurs would help with bringing skiing to a wider audience. The fact that Chemmy comes across in her Ch 4 diaries as a bubbly young woman probably reflects the fact that she is a bubbly young woman. I don't have a problem with that, and it provides a context for the coverage when we see her heading downhill at 70mph showing skiing skills that the rest of us just dream about.
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Tue 29-03-05 0:56; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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The safest way to get an input from her is the one PG has suggested. Someone who already knows her and is in the racing journalism scene pointing out that the bubble baths and hot tubs aspects of the diaries may be generating adverse publicity and asking for her view on that. We would do well to remember we are discussing a real person and in these internet days, Chemmy could even already be an anonymous snowHead. 
Have to admit that Chemmy's approach is certainly different to the 'standard' type of sponsorship deal where the sponsor (e.g. Volvo) and the recipient (Lesley McKenna) say mutually back-scratching nice things about each other. Even if they are sincere and true, it's all a bit 'pass the sick baggish'.
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Do we know if Ms. Alcott has a sponsoirship deal with Radox?
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FAQ
Sounds as if Posh has changed her mind,again.Odd,thought she was a sun worshipper 
