My booked trips are coming up soon and naturally I'm looking at wasting even more money on new skis. Besides my race skis I currently ski an older pair of Legend Pro. These are ludicrously good fun in crud and on wide open bowls where I can really open them up and do GS/Super-G turns, but I find them quite hard work on hard/choppy snow and in narrower medium-steepness couloirs where I need to control the speed a bit more. They also have a bit of a tendency to dive in the heavier stuff and I find myself having to weight them quite far back to keep the tips up, which kills my quads.
I come from more of a racing background where pushing the tails is a no-no and enjoy using the shape of the ski to do quite a lot of the work for me. Smearing turns is very nice in a foot of powder but in standard Euro conditions where it's anything from frozen chop to hard-pack I tend to drive into the turn and find it quite hard to release and slide the tail out to scrub speed, and in fact find it more difficult to do this on my fat skis compared with my GS skis, probably because of the extra width. The Dynastars have a 27m turn radius and are quite stiff, and I'm wondering if I'd find something a bit more shapely more enjoyable to ski on the pitches where warp 10 and big fast GS turns are out of the question.
Most, if not all of the freeride-oriented skis have very straight sidecuts, which I can understand for deeper snow, but I'm looking for something a bit more all-round. Would I also be better with something with a slightly softer tip/tail? Should I just stop trying to carve arc-arc turns everywhere off-piste, stand up off the ski a bit more and introduce some steering in the first half of the turn rather than cranking them straight over?
I've seen a great deal on a pair of Salomon Shogun which I've only had chance to test indoors but am holding off pulling the trigger because I don't want to have the same issues I found with the Dynastars. I'd be interested to hear from anyone who's tested one of the tighter radius fat skis like the Icelantic Shaman, WhiteDot Preacher or some of the Zag models or even the Mantra and how they compared with the straighter boards.
Thanks
SSB
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Sideshow_Bob wrote:
Should I just stop trying to carve arc-arc turns everywhere off-piste, stand up off the ski a bit more and introduce some steering in the first half of the turn rather than cranking them straight over?
THIS!!
that said LPs are hard work in plenty of circumstances and not that great for smearing in soft snow (great for firm steep slopes though because of the straight sidecut). i replaced the LPs with something a little fatter, a little softer and with less camber and elongated tips (not rocker strictly speaking) and am loving them (DPS Wailer 105s since you ask).
They really do rail on piste too* - the carbon makes them very torsionally stiff which helps this
*no, BASoIds, they are not as fast from edge to edge as slalom skis but I don't care
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Arno, yeah, probably, but that feels like cheating. I don't like stepping off the gas when the going gets tougher or steeper - probably need to change my mentality that steering is not stepping back. To be honest I was kinda hankering after my slalom skis on the steeper harder-packed sections of the Grand Envers and Posettes last year as I know I could've ripped the slope a new one on them but it was all initiate, slide, initiate, slide on my LPs Having said that it was quite a bad week for conditions and the slalom skis would've been a nightmare in anything deeper than 3 or 4 inches.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Sideshow_Bob, I'm not sure the Mantras would achieve what you want - yes, they are a bit lighter than the LPs, slightly tighter radius, and probably less cambered, so are a bit more manoeuvrable than the LPs, but they're still essentially GS+ boards. I personally love them in couloirs and open crud - the stability and stiffness along the full length gives them a great solid feeling, and they can be pushed around beautifully in bottomless powder, but they do require a lot of rotational movement to get them to work at slow speeds. And I've found the same kind of problem in tight trees - where they need extremely aggressive driving, and punish the slightest hesitancy big-time. So probably an improvement over the LPs, but probably not enough to be worth the change. On the positive side for you though, they do respond very well to their tips being driven hard (but would be less tolerant of your jetting them from the back seat )
I've only tried the Preachers at Hemel, but found them much less manoeuvrable than the Mantras I tried at the same time. The problem you will have is that if you want anything with any level of performance on hardpack it'll get you back to the disadvantages you have at present - but to be a nimble ski at slower speeds off-piste it will have to be softer, but that won't grip so well on hardpack. I've had a day each on the Zag Big84s and Golds and they may do what you want. Particularly the Big84s are much softer so you can essentially ski straight up a wall - but they are completely sh`t on a remotely hard piste, so don't expect to carve anything there. From my limited experience with them the Golds are pretty good compromise - but they are not at all cheap.
Megamum, riding free - it's for people too old to ski freestyle that don't want to be thought of as piste skiers. In deed, I am a freerider.
Arno, BASoIds. Nasal wash with hot tea = unpleasant.
Sideshow_Bob, pu$$y. I would have thought that with a "race background" you would want to be skiing a ski like the LP or maybe the Mantras as your freeride sticks. Hard for you to track down, especially without a demo, but I would recommend you to go for a Faction 3.Zero, probably in a 183cm.
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Sideshow_Bob, and the rest of you - and you do that Big respect!! It would appear that there is Off Piste and then is Free-ride. Def. of Freeride would appear to be go where you want just don't want to stop I assume that the skis used are hefty great wide jobs with twin tips.
GrahamN,
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Tue 16-03-10 14:35; edited 1 time in total
like SSB I struggle with edge hold whilst in the midst of a 50 foot air
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Sideshow_Bob, it's not cheating, it's progressive
repeat to yourself 100 times and you'll be sorted
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
parlor wrote:
Sideshow_Bob, pu$$y. I would have thought that with a "race background" you would want to be skiing a ski like the LP or maybe the Mantras as your freeride sticks. Hard for you to track down, especially without a demo, but I would recommend you to go for a Faction 3.Zero, probably in a 183cm.
I did think when I posted whether it'd be you, Arno or snowpatrol to first call me a pussy Don't get me wrong, I love the skis for charging, much better than any other fat skis I've tried to date, and they're great when it's steep enough that unweighting-turns are necessary, just find myself in some situations in less than pristine snow when I'd love to be able to rip some tighter lines on them, and some other times where the snow is mushy and I want to charge but feel like the tips will submarine.
I'll keep an eye out for the Factions, heard good things about them. Will probably hold off on the Shoguns until I've tested some other models. Hopefully kiwi1 will have some Preachers at the bash. Anyone know of a good place to test skis in Flaine as I'm out there in 10 days?
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Sideshow_Bob, i have concluded that i am a pussy myself so no pussy accusations from me
(except at snowpatrol for his choice of 187 XXLs )
Don't get me wrong, I love the skis for charging, much better than any other fat skis I've tried to date, and they're great when it's steep enough that unweighting-turns are necessary, just find myself in some situations in less than pristine snow when I'd love to be able to rip some tighter lines on them, and some other times where the snow is mushy and I want to charge but feel like the tips will submarine.
That sounds a bit different from what you said to start with - in which case the Mantras could be back in the frame - they're huge fun pushing the skis into a nice bend for some ripping turns down a not too steep/narrow chute. You should at least give them a try.
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Tue 16-03-10 15:24; edited 1 time in total
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Sideshow_Bob, Preachers are nice, turn well for a mid-fat carve well, I did a GS race, the Meribel Cup, with them a couple of weeks ago (it wasn't pretty, but I beat my buddy on his GS skis ) - worth a try if Kiwi1 has 'em at the EoSB, if not try mine if you're a similar BSL - I hope to be there for at least a few days
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Sideshow_Bob, I loved the preparation and psyching up in the last one
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
there's a few snowheads 'freeriding' in this one....click the HD options....
kitenski, k'now, every time I see these videos and TRs I keep on thinking "What's the problem, I'd be better off with straight skis or even reverse-sidecut in those conditions"... then I think when was the last time I had snow like that? Probably three years ago
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Sideshow_Bob, have a look at the kastle mx 98 , especially if you want to "waste" even more cash
Sideshow_Bob, FWIW 2 of the guys in that link were on Scott Missions (1 being me....now on HS Freerides), JT was on his Movements, 2 of the others were on Icelantic Nomads, Arno was on his LPs I think and I can't remember what Parlor was on.....
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
kitenski, Faction 13s but if Sideshow-Roberta can't ski the LPs I think he'll find the 13s a little OTT.
Sideshow_Bob, I like the idea of Neilski suggestion.
After all it is free
After all it is free
I dunno - the MX98 always looked like a more expensive version of the LP to me
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
27m, race room pedigree, wood core, looks like it to me.
I'm going to give the LPs another go out in Flaine in a fortnight. Depending on conditions I'll see if I can adapt my skiing more to steering the turns on the mid-steeps and not angulating the skis as much at initiation rather than attacking like it was a race piste. I'll try to get a handful of other skis of varying radii to test to see which I prefer. Hopefully the snow won't be as crappy hard as Cham last year.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
kitenski, Thanks for posting that link - its always much nicer to watch someone you have a 'link' to rather than a complete stranger. I watched it all with great interest (I also rustled up some headphones and discovered sound too ). At the risk of derailing the thread I just wanted to say what fun you all looked like you were having and I wondered (somewhat enviously) how long you had all been skiing before you started to have a bash at that sort of terrain. I noted the large packs as well though - they look awkward I assume that is the safety kit that I hear discussed on the boards. I doubt I'll ever get to that standard, and I tend to fear the off-piste for safety reasons, but I must admit it does look great fun .
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Sideshow_Bob, do a bit of a review on the line prophets if you get a go on them, they sound pretty good...
GrahamN, how long are your mantras?
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Sideshow_Bob, having arc to arc turns as your goal in variable conditions seems a bit optimistic - a tighter sidecut on a fatter ski will still be cumbersome once you're getting past the 90mm mark.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Hey Sideshow-bob, sounds like you've got a very similar style to me, check out the Preachers (theyres a little discussion and reviews on tgr here http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150309 ) or Icleantic's Shaman, both super nice skis that carve amazingly well for a fattie!
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
DaveC, I'm not after complete rail-roading here, merely would like some shape in the ski to work with for when it's hard-ish underfoot. I'd love something like the LP that I have with maybe a slight tip rocker (say a foot) to help with preventing diving and say a 20m turn radius rather than 27m. I don't want anything much softer than the LPs - some of the other wider skis I've tried (Salomon Lord, Rossignol SC80) have been totally noodly and uninspiring.
the_doc, thanks for the suggestions. Have tried the Shaman in a fridge and haven't been on the Preachers yet tho hopefully will be able to test some soon. Kinda wished I picked up some Shamans from kiwi1 last year when he was selling off old stock at £240, wonder if he fancies being as generous with the Preachers (hint hint )
Sideshow_Bob, I know what you mean. I really like my Lhasa Pows (keeping them tuned is pretty important though), and there's still some chatter/judder on ice if it's unexpected. Looks like the Wailer 112RP has a lot in common with the Lhasa shape wise. However, I'm a bit suprised with the Wailer's sidecut and tail shape - 16m sidecut and a big tail seems like it's asking for a fair bit of hookup and awkwardness in the name of a sidecut you'll never really want to use - can't imagine it's what you'd want for chop and crud either? This is just a total guesstimate after a lot of time on the Lhasa though.
Actually, to continue this ramble, I'm not convinced sidecut is the real issue at hand... Lhasa's don't behave like they've got a 39m radius with their pintail shape, I had to google to see exactly how big it was.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Arno, they just look like an poncy Armada JJ or Rossi S7, two skis I have been looking at...
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
skimottaret, 191cm. When I tried the 184s I wasn't happy I had to sit a bit far back in the soft stuff. The 191s you can really drive (but also you must), but as I've found since, that doesn't make them the easiest in tight trees - although more "glade" type runs are great. Also makes following down couloirs and other tight spots that have been trenched by 185 skis and shorter a little "interesting" (e.g. as in the entry to the far skiers' right Rosset couloir at La Plagne a couple of weeks ago).
Sideshow_Bob, they aren't dissimilar to the S7s in general but the tips are have a bigger rocker with the W112s. People seem to love the S7s - was pretty tempted by them myself. also, what about the Rossi RC112 if you can find them? A big beefy ski for going fast but with a rockered tip
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Sideshow_Bob, Fritschi Freeride+. Should probably have a beefier binding on them, as I've now got them racked up to DIN 11. I'm still in two minds whether to bite the bullet and admit that I need separate skis for freeride and touring (so go for Dukes, and then need a slightly lighter rig for genuine touring), or go the other way and put Dynafit FT12s on these and use them for everything - but I'm probably a bit too happy falling over for that to be really safe for my knees. Bit of a half-way house at present.
skimottaret, at your height, I definitely wouldn't think of anything below 190cm.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
I've read on TGR the Rossi RC112 actually been described as a charging GS ski, so maybe that'd be a good shout Arno. Discontinued this year though...
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
Having said that it was quite a bad week for conditions and the slalom skis would've been a nightmare in anything deeper than 3 or 4 inches.
)
Big respect!! It would appear that there is Off Piste and then is Free-ride. Def. of Freeride would appear to be go where you want just don't want to stop 
Don't get me wrong, I love the skis for charging, much better than any other fat skis I've tried to date, and they're great when it's steep enough that unweighting-turns are necessary, just find myself in some situations in less than pristine snow when I'd love to be able to rip some tighter lines on them, and some other times where the snow is mushy and I want to charge but feel like the tips will submarine.
carve well, I did a GS race, the Meribel Cup, with them a couple of weeks ago (it wasn't pretty, but I beat my buddy on his GS skis 
I loved the preparation and psyching up in the last one
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