 Poster: A snowHead
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following on from previous post http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=1453036&highlight=#1453036 my 2nd trip is coming up next week (only 4 day trip). knees are still sore since last trip and since last post was wondering if my original problem was caused by knees that are just not up to handling the atomic blackeyes 164s, im 5'6" 11.5st but my knees are knackered, were extra bad this year on the new skis. see another previous posthttp://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=1433128&highlight=#1433128 i get alot of pain in the inside (medial area)of both knees when sking. have little or no cartdilge left in this area both knees + medial ligament damage.
so would an easy turn shorter piste ski be easier on my knees? not sure yet if ill take the blackeyes with me this time or not. was thinking of trying out a few different hire skis depending what the expert snowheads think
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Clearly you could manage on a shorter ski, possibly even as short as 150, without having problems that they are too short and the tips and tails don't work fully. Is it just length though, would a softer ski help?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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creedge, I think /shorter radius/- (not necessarily shorter length) skis could help, but not very much.
If I'm visualising your trouble correctly, I think your knee pain is just as likely to happen as you snowplough into a lift queue as while turning at speed on piste, and it's more likely to happen on soft snow than on ice.
I think a pair of something like these:
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would go a lot further towards helping you than any sort of ski change.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I`m 5`4" 10st and have Nomad Blackeyes in 157 They are a VERY VERY soft ski (not the Ti version) , any softer and they would be noodles.
great in powder, trees and mogals but would not want them any shorter for piste as too unstable and soft.
I got them to replace LP90`s 165 which my old, bad knees and poor technique found way too stiff. The blackeyes did the trick for me.
Shorter skis/turn radius may help but sounds like knee brace maybe.
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Thu 4-03-10 17:16; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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creedgearoid are you a feller or a gel?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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In what way are your knees knackered?
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Frosty the Snowman, sounds like MCL + meniscus problems, so any absorption (down steps, or into the ski when braking) or any rotation whilst the foot is firmly planted (snowplough, hockey stop, braking skid) could be painful.
(expecting creedge to correct me on this).
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Best advice i was ever given re: sore knees is to stay as fully hydrated as possible. A lot of the time when skiing people are active all day but have a tendency not to drink that much. Add on to that a few pints apres ski plus a glass or two of wine with dinner & maybe a cheeky night cap or two over the course of a couple of days this will lead to systematic dehydration. When you're dehydrated there's not as much fluid in your joints for lubrication. The easiest way to combat this is to have a camelback or similar bladder system & drink when on the lifts up & then make sure you drink a pint or two of water every evening before you go to bed. I've found in previous years i've had knee pain from this & by following the steps i've mentioned this completely reduces the amount of pain i've experienced.
In saying that yes shorter skis will be easier on your knees as there'll be less leverage on them when turning. However you may find it less satisfying & have more trouble controlling them at speed as shorted skis are less statisfying.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I get that sort of pain from time to time. My knees aren't great, but usually I can improve matters by identifying a trigger point in the vastus medialis muscle (one of the quads). See this link http://www.round-earth.com/kneepain-quadriceps.html
If a knee is playing up, with that inner knee pain (my OH also gets the knee "giving way" though mine doesn't) I can usually find a trigger point right down in the bottom of that muscle, just above the knee cap. If you find it (with the thumb of the same side hand), you'll know - very sore little spot. Keep digging at it - keep the pressure on, and jiggle it about a bit, till the sensitivity is reduced.
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pam w, fella.Frosty the Snowman, 30+yrs of sport 4-5 times a week so knees are worn especially on inside where i also damaged both medial ligaments. have been told by many docs/ physios to stop playing football, sking etc and to do walking swimming for exercise. but i just cant stop as the rest of body is in great shape and i feel as fit as a 20yr old (im goin on 43) right knee is worse than the left so when im doin a left turn and need to angle right knee inwards this is when i get pain right on the knee joint inside pam w, its not a time to time issue unfortunately but digging away at that point you suggested as i type
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Ask the physios about taping for medial ligament support... you will struggle to walk right with good tape on but skiing will be easier...
Better technique may help with the knees also...
I mangled my medial ligament when I was a newish skier - I had a 30 day ski trip booked. My sports med doctor (out of AIS) was also a keen skier... with LOTS of rehab (kick board and pool, 1 leg squats) and the above taping I managed to ski for my holiday (note no high speed/forces as I was newer skier at the time)... I still have the odd twinge from time to time - but with exercise can keep it reasonable... no exercise and I tend to suffer...
Make sure you find a good sports physio and maybe sports doc...
BTW any of the docs suggest the red rooster comb? I have a friend had great success with that for getting him exercising painlessly again with pretty banged up knee cartilage...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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let the skis do the work. Long skis may be more stable but short slip may turn quicker. I would say go long and quick to cruising.
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creedgearoid,
N.B. Don`t know whether yours are Ti? .... although I find my ordinary Blackeyes are great in soft snow, they are bone shakers on the hard marbled stuff as there is little or no damping. My knees get hammered.
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You know it makes sense.
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creedgearoid,
N.B. Don`t know whether yours are Ti? .... although I find my ordinary Blackeyes are great in soft snow, they are bone shakers on the hard marbled stuff as there is little or no damping. My knees get hammered.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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let the skis do the work
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Yes, I'm inclined to agree actually. I am 5'5" and just under 10 stone and find my 163 skis about right, but I do have to ration the amount of "challenging" snow I do. If I do a mogul run (very badly...) then I don't do another one for a while. I am playing in the powder, but only for a while, then back on piste. I have tried to improve my technique steadily so I stand stacked on my skeleton, and I ski in an area where most of the skiing is gentle. That way, I can ski for weeks on end. I also do a lot of strengthening and stretching exercises for my legs. I have just discovered that my 3 week old granddaughter loves being swung around whilst I do my squats - she's had a restless couple of days and I now have quads of iron.
I've just had to accept that if I want to carry on, that's the way it is. Though I appreciate it's easier to accept a "winding down" approach to skiing when you're an old aged pensioner than when you're in your early 40s. I now go for quantity over quality. I'd rather do 8 weeks at my pace than 1 week roaring around getting knackered.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Hi interested as I have pain in my knees- i have danced/ taught dance all my life - now 45 having to anticipate the extra stress that is put on them skiing.
before a ski trip I increase quad exercises- mainly leg lifts- you can add ankle weights. I am 5'6 and 11 stone....I try to get down to 10.7 before skiing as extra weight also increases strain on joints. I also wear knee supports but not hardcore ones like in the pic above!
I'm no expert but I 'd do some serious prep before your trip and give your skis another go - then reassess the situation
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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creedgearoid,...you need to start squatting... heavy squats performed CORRECTLY cure all knee problems (by strengthening the muscles/tendons/ligaments which hold the knee in place)... heavy squats cure every disease known to man....in fact a heavy set of squats will cause any female in the near vicinity to spontaneously conceive a child...so get down to the gym and do heavy squats in time for next years skiing...
okbye
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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snowpatrol, excellent. Will you supply me the IV morphine that will needed during and after?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Frosty the Snowman,  ...No, but once you get up to 20kg i could spot you...
okbye
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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snowpatrol, you would have no trouble spotting me...I would be the fat bloke crying in the corner 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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snowpatrol, was doing squats with weights but lower back is f****ed as well so had to stop. guess i shud just go an get a room in old folks home
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squats make my knees hurt.....thats why I do leg lifts l- or you could do them on seated gym equipment- go and ask at a gym for advice-
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creedgearoid, Check with physio - my physio prescribes squats for back rehab patients... Start slow with no weight - focus on form... work up... Type of progression. He is the physio used by the city's best back surgeon and I have seen his gym about 1/3 full of folks doing squats at various levels.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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yep - ask a physios opinion- squats may suit you -but its amazing what our bodies are cabable of if trained correctly-
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creedgearoid, I know of several people (long term skiiers) who have switched from alpine to telemark this season to get away from knee problems. Each and every one of them are reporting no more knee problems - you'll need quads of steel though.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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creedgearoid, tripletimestep, if you are getting any pain whatsoever from squatting then that is due to poor form and nothing else...google "starting strength" by mark rippetoe...you will get an abundance of information on proper technique...
okbye
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