 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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uktrailmonster,
I thought one of the important feature of a world class resort is cannot be crowded. The cost and remoteness will drive the mass away.
For a place like Aspen the wife and I have the impression that there are more workers serving the skiers. Free coffee and sun cream to hand out. If I look at the piste map at the base station for a few seconds there will be a worker come to my aid showing how to get where I want. There are very few piste users competing for piste space or chairlifts. I never used it but there is a regular free skiing tour to lead visitors to the full enjoyment of the mountain.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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saikee, Just remember 'nothing in life is free' the sunscreen coffee, cookies,hot cider, lip balm, mountain hosts etc are all paid for via the lift pass. The mountain hosts are skiers who gain a free season pass in return for their services on the mountain. Or they did last time we were there. Yes its nice but remember you are paying for it in some way.
Most NA ski resorts couldnt survive on their lift ticket sales, and rely on selling the real estate for the cash. North American ski resorts in general are quiet places this year even more so. In the way they are planned, apart from the first uphill lift queue, lifts and pistes are usually quiet. 
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Great snow conditions completely changes a ski holiday and you can't argue that Colorado and Utah typically get a lot but IMO the terrain isn't a patch on the decent mountains in Europe eg Chamonix/Verbier/Val d'Isere. The mountains aren't impressive, the verticals aren't as good and there's minimal scope for decent off piste because it's so regulated. We did Highland Bowl after a bit of powder and there were literally hundereds of people walking up the same path in a long snake..... And people say Chamonix's of piste is busy! I've skied Whistler, Alta/Snowbird and Aspen and wouldn't swap any of those for Verbier/Chamonix.
Not sure I agree on Zermatt either. Possibly not a huge number of pistes but they are long and the huge area offers masses of scope for off piste between the pistes as well as all the stuff on the glaciers and down from Rotthorn/Stockhorn. Only problem is that it needs a lot of snow to cover the rocks.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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boabski, that's a self-selecting group who have set up a marketing campaign to brand themselves "best of the Alps". Not really an unbiased viewpoint, I'd guess.
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I've only just spotted the chorus of 'Zermatt: not all that good except for the views and lunch' and I'd like to chime in and say
WHAT?!
Mr and Mrs paulio are both in agreement it's the best place we've skied (and we 100% self catered so had no exposure to its dining which is a common cause for celebration...). I thought the variety, length, loneliness and splendour of its pistes is beyond anywhere else I've ever been. Out of everywhere I've been so far, it's the only resort I actively plan to return to. For the skiing, not all that peripheral 'pretty village, great food' nonsense.
You're all a bunch of crazies.
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| paulio wrote: |
| You're all a bunch of crazies. |
Hah! You'll be hearing from my lawyer soon...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| saikee wrote: |
uktrailmonster,
I thought one of the important feature of a world class resort is cannot be crowded. The cost and remoteness will drive the mass away.
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In my experience, resorts that are loosely labelled "World Class" eg. Whistler, Vail, Courchevel etc are often relatively crowded compared to less famous resorts eg. Red Mountain, Whitewater, Silver Star. It goes without saying that a famous resort will attract people through package deals and extensive marketing. But in general NA resorts, particularly in Canada, are less crowded than equivalent Alpine resorts due to the lower population density. It's a different kind of skiing, different scenery, different lifestyle and yes a different kind of snow!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Neilski, Alyeska! Now there IS a ski resort! I grew up there as a kid so my memories are obviously a bid dated (10 years ago), but it truly feels like wilderness skiing. And people think it's cold when it's -20C? Go ski Alyeska in January...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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rob@rar,
| Quote: |
that's a self-selecting group who have set up a marketing campaign to brand themselves "best of the Alps". Not really an unbiased viewpoint, I'd guess
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Don't worry it was slightly tongue in cheeck, but did mirror a lot of the resorts mentioned above. I mean Glencoe is not even listed FFS 
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I think St Anton has the best off-piste anywhere - but I have not been much to USA: only Jackson Hole which I found very disappointing.
OK, Zermatt does have some good off piste but I cannot understand how Kitzbuhel could be mentioned in this company - just nothing even slightly challenging (though a nice village). I'm not keen on Cortina either - some very straggly bits of skiing around a big town.
More and more European resorts are getting rid of their best black runs and making them itineraries or even off-piste. It is off piste where you find most of the challenging skiing and it covers huge areas compared to in the US resorts.
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You know it makes sense.
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Neilski, why do you need a mountain guide in a US resort (or do you mean for the back-country?).
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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snowball, I find it odd that you found Jckson Hole disappointing (given some of the other stuff you've posted). I had a coupleof awesome days touring around there...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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under a new name, I'm afraid I'm lazy - I don't like having to do so much walking to get any powder. An occasional half hour or hour is OK, but not every time. Other than Granite Canyon it really was full day tours. And other than the very limited area of side-country, guides aren't allowed in the back-country so you had to do it with a map and use your own avalanche predicting skills - I'm used to skiing with guides in Europe. I was also surprised that there were almost no tracks in Granite and none at all beyond.
I should perhaps mention that the front of the mountain had been scoured by winds or was skied out.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| snowball wrote: |
I think St Anton has the best off-piste anywhere - but I have not been much to USA: only Jackson Hole which I found very disappointing.
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I'm not necessarily disputing your thought (as I haven't been to St Anton), but how would you know if you've only been to JH?? Or are you simply going off size?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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These world class resorts just sound as if they'd be full of douchebags who need their hands held and their egos stroked. 
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I find saikee's and others comments in this thread very interesting. I've skied 55+ US ski areas over a period of
40+ years and I consider the Aspen group to be my favorite ski vacation destination. Great snow conditions, terrain, scenery (although can't compare in that dept to much of the Alps) and après ski ambiance. Tellingly, however, I've only skied there on two holidays, the last being over 15 years ago. It’s too expensive for a middle class family man such as myself. The Aspen ski areas have maintained a conscious aim for exclusiveness over the years. They are known to be very expensive in all ways, but with great skiing and low crowds. Home ownership there is among the most costly of all US ski towns; for example a half million dollars for a one bedroom condo/apartment. I think I can agree that the infrastructure may be declining a bit; i.e., aging lifts and accommodations. I believe they are losing the profitability wars with Vail, Breckenridge and other ski areas more easily accessible from Denver. Utah and Tahoe also compete strongly for their potential pool of customers. There are many other ski areas in the US that offer very good skiing at far less cost than Aspen and that is where us "regular folks" go to ski. But for the aforementioned interesting qualities I would still unreservedly recommend Aspen to someone crossing the pond to ski America. It's a fascinating place, and not just in the superficial glitzy way, but also for tremendous and varied skiing. To ski the four Aspen ski areas thoroughly would take a month.
A few dubious generalizations: in comparison to the five ski areas I've visited in Austria I would say that on-piste skiing is generally more challenging in the US. Aspen/Ajax, Aspen Highlands and Snowmass have some fine examples of this. However, the definitions of on-piste and off-piste are tricky. In the US many ski areas include almost all acreage in between marked ski trails as on-piste. This includes trees/glades, frozen stream beds, cliffs, liftlines, and of course steep mogul trails. Off-piste constitutes terrain known as "out of bounds" where neither guides, rescue ski patrols, nor the skiing public are ever likely to go due to avalanches, bigger cliffs, or just too expansive to monitor. My sense of the Alps is that on-piste means groomed slopes where the assistance of a guide is not usually required or sought. Off piste in the Alps means "anything goes" and everything is skiable, but for anyone with common sense, only under the supervision of an experienced mountain guide paid to ensure your survival.
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lucky33, would agree on the profitability stakes, but with what aspen county earns in property tax, they could probably keep the resort open if no one actually skied there.
and you are so right re" the artificial glitz" as it is just that , scrape just below the surface and you will find a real town, probably more real than the european superstars, such as zermatt etc.
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| Quote: |
Off piste in the Alps means "anything goes" and everything is skiable, but for anyone with common sense, only under the supervision of an experienced mountain guide paid to ensure your survival.
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You know, it is possible to learn to look after yourself...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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After skiing 130 resorts it's a difficult question to answer as to where is "the best" skiing in the world.
For example, we have had some "world class" snow conditions in Glencoe, with top to bottom (car park) skiing in incredible snow - and some appalling skiing in Utah, when we were rained on in Brighton. Oh, and over the past 25 years, everything in between....
My top 10 - in no particular order as it's almost impossible to rank them - are:-
-Alta
-Zermatt
-3 Valleys
-Espace Killy
-Zermatt
-Jackson Hole
-Aspen
-Whistler
-St Anton
-Yad Moss/Weardale - this season! Epic! 
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From my experience I'd say St Anton, Courchevel and maybe Banff.
From what I've heard you could add Ischgl and Whistler to the list and probably several other US/Canadian resorts. I've skied in many places but nowhere near as many as I'd like!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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3V - Variety
Ischgl - apres
End. Of. 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Anton's better than Ischgl for apres though - although Ischgl wins on actual nightlife. Anton has the better terrain too.
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The two most upmarket (world class) places I've been to in North America are Aspen and Sun Valley, and they are sure millionaire playgrounds, fine ski areas, and great little Western towns. I assume Deer Valley is up there too, although its kinda an extension of Park City.
In Europe, Lech is my only really upmarket experience, and it's truly epic. No drunken Brits there - the 'riff raff' as someone said to me on a chair lift, 'stay in St Anton' 
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You know it makes sense.
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gortonator,
None of the Swiss resorts fit the bill?
I found St Moritz pretty hard to beat. Lech is OK but it hasn't got a large lake and own airport. It is not easy to reach and is mostly dominated by the Swiss so a pretty private place to ski (no crowd problem, if there is the Swiss people are well behave).
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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I got back from the Three Valleys a couple of weeks ago and all of my group absolutely loved it. I found that the Courchevel 'valley' had the best scenery, Val Thorens the best cruising, and Meribel was generally the steepest valley. I found the reds to be much harder than those in Switzerland (Wengen and Zermatt)… I think this is a typical occurrence in France.
I can see what people are saying about Zermatt – it was my first ski holiday but looking back the pistes may lack variety/challenge, and getting to the slopes takes time. But the scenery is a big part of my holiday and I would go back for the breathtaking views of the Matterhorn alone
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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gortonator, We enjoyed Lech a lot. It is very 'civilised'. But a bit on the small side, and a little bit 'ho hum' for a whole week. Plus for the cost of 5 days there (In a good hotel in Oberlech)) , you can stay pretty much anywhere in the 3V for a week, and dine out on Bolly and caviar
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Axsman, If Lech gets too small you just go over to Anton...
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clarky999, fair point, but my suggestion (if you want to ski both areas) would be to do it the other way round, stay in Anton and visit Lech. Quite a few skiers we spoke to in Oberlech were doing exactly that.
In the context of the thread I was really saying that Lech is very good, and very exclusive, but a bit small to be 'world class' (on its own). 
Nicely groomed, (and largely empty!) pistes though
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Kel wrote: |
| uktrailmonster wrote: |
| saikee wrote: |
Snow is snow to me |
No way! Snow is THE most important factor in a ski resort for me. Second up is ski-in-out access and spacious accommodation. Last on my list are celebrity boutiques and expensive restaurants - although I do like good healthy food served in a casual friendly atmosphere.
Sure snow is snow
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I saw the above pic of Bansko a couple of weeks ago before I went there. Now I am not saying Bansko is a world class resort, far from it, but it has it's place. Just thought I would post this pic, exact same location, different day and my ski's showing the depth of snow next to the road.
Just a more balanced view I am sure people have pics of Aspen at the end of the season when their is no snow, they just don't seem to post them !!.
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I was only really pointing out that snow conditions are King. Not really aimed at Bansko, that's just what google threw up first! Although conditions there do seem a bit hit or miss. I just prefer more snowsure resorts with a high probability of some decent powder.
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uktrailmonster,
You know what, so do I. But we were were going away with friends of our's who are newbies and Bansko fit the bill. Why go to a 300km mountain when 65 is more than enough and pay 3 times the price !!. I do feel it get's a lot of bad press some warranted but a lot not.
Think we had a good week by all accounts, fresh powder every day help's detract from the building site of a town. Also their really are some excellent places to eat in the town if you take the time to find them.
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| gortonator wrote: |
| In Europe, Lech is my only really upmarket experience, and it's truly epic. No drunken Brits there - the 'riff raff' as someone said to me on a chair lift, 'stay in St Anton' |
I've been to Lech and I'm a total scumbag.
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but you're a sober scumbag
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| saikee wrote: |
gortonator,
None of the Swiss resorts fit the bill?
I found St Moritz pretty hard to beat. Lech is OK but it hasn't got a large lake and own airport. It is not easy to reach and is mostly dominated by the Swiss so a pretty private place to ski (no crowd problem, if there is the Swiss people are well behave). |
probably, I just ain't been ...
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| bad_roo wrote: |
| gortonator wrote: |
| In Europe, Lech is my only really upmarket experience, and it's truly epic. No drunken Brits there - the 'riff raff' as someone said to me on a chair lift, 'stay in St Anton' |
I've been to Lech and I'm a total scumbag. |
me too - we're not banned, just not predominant
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FAQ
I'm sure it's lovely but not up there with Chamonix, St Anton et al
Yet given half decent condition, I'll go back for a repeat visit in a heartbeat!!! As such, I think both are "world class" resorts (even by 
