 Poster: A snowHead
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| Masque wrote: |
| OFF's sake!!! unless you're on polished blue ice you hardly even need metal edges. All that Walter-Spitty is looking for is a ski that will compensate for his lack of technique and there are racks full of them designed just for that purpose. If you cannot adapt your skiing to compensate for ski size or shape, adverse conditions or blunt edges you are not an "Intermediate" skier . . . |
I'd agree with that..
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| scotia wrote: |
Masque, do you even ski?  |
I'll slide/ride/falloff/over anything . . . and frequently do and if you want to carve on ice yes you need good edges, if you want to ski on ice you need good technique first.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I'm not advanced, but I do know that on ice you need flat skis, not skis on their edges. I also know that mostly, when people talk of skiing on "ice", they mean no such thing.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
I'm not advanced, but I do know that on ice you need flat skis, not skis on their edges
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yes at a certain level its best to flatten your skis and wait for the ice patch to end. But at a higher level, look at a race course which is "watered" the night before to give an icy hard surface, and I think you'll find a bit of carving and skiing on edges taking place..
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Masque wrote: |
| scotia wrote: |
| Masque, do you even ski? |
I'll slide/ride/falloff/over anything . . . and frequently do and if you want to carve on ice yes you need good edges, if you want to ski on ice you need good technique first. |
Personally, I think perhaps there is some truth in that..... LOL!!!!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| pam w wrote: |
| I'm not advanced, but I do know that on ice you need flat skis, not skis on their edges. I also know that mostly, when people talk of skiing on "ice", they mean no such thing. |
You're half right lol, but if you want to carve ice obviously you have to be on your edges.
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clarky999, but why would someone other than a racer want to carve ice? Maybe he means boilerplate? We're talking holiday skiers here, after all.
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pam w, Yes, boilerplate is generally called ice by those who have never seen the proper frozen stuff... even that can be quite hard though. I was in the Swiss Alps this March and on my fatter skis I could get a fast edged turn, suddenly hit stuff glinting shiny grey in the sun and find myself sliding 6 feet off my line.
I then borrowed someones SL skis and instead of having to do my turning on the areas covered with fresh snow I found myself seeking out the scraped off patches to turn on, they really gripped on the harder surface... and it was very hard. Recently took my 98mm skis to a 3 degree edge and they do seem to bite better on hard pistes with no noticable difference in the soft and powder so a good result.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Look, skiing on or over hard icy crust is less a factor of edge sharpness than it is for the skier/rider having good suple responsive suspension in their legs. The moment you stiffen up you've lost it and you fall. Good technique and muscke training isfar more important than being able to shave with your ski edge. It's ddpressing listening to people mzoan about equipmet when the prob. is themselves . . . If I buy a bigger condom wlll it make me a better Lover? That's the level of these threads 
Edir fookn phone jeyboarc
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Masque, you do talk a load of bollox sometimes, darlin'. The fact is that the vast majority of people on here don't need to be lectured on the subject of their own technical deficiencies, they're perfectly aware of them already and therefore - perfectly understandably - try to make their equipment as good as it can be to mitigate those deficiencies. There's no crime in that.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Hurtle, There is when they're calling for advice on "expert level" skis. I'd have more tolerance for someone with a little more reality about their skiing needs ... maybe I should offer him my teleboard, you can slice steel with those edges 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Masque,
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I'd have more tolerance for someone with a little more reality about their skiing needs
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Fair point. But you are a tad intolerant, even good skiers want decent equipment. Actually, even good skiers can become less than ideally fit. Be kind. 
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Hurtle, Ha! I'm barely past level 1 and my fitness has been going down the toilet faster than the turd chasing it which does nothing but reinforce the need for better technique to compensate for that. You only fall off your skis/board when your ability comes up short of the conditions and you cannot adapt to them. Those old Nomads I schlep around on haven't been edged in more than 3 years and have about 7 weeks snow time on them so I adapt and overcome . . . and fall off them when I push too hard and not when the snow is 'wrong' There is no such thing as 'wrong snow' just wrong technique and this guy is claiming to have enough experience to say he needs better skis but still falls on his hip when he can't deal with the conditions . . . sorry sweetheart, he needs practice not a purchase.
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You know it makes sense.
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Masque,
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needs practice not a purchase.
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Im getting a hoodie with that ion the back 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Masque, I sense false modesty here ... I too hate 'all the gear and no idea' and I have an amused smile when I see friends in CH on skis with edges curling off, top sheets scratched to death, etc yet skiing perfectly...so I do sense where you're coming from re ability and approach....but it's difficult to use what you say as a matter of principle...if someone really wants to improve, grappling with poorly prepared kit can be an impediment, for example, I would want to ensure that my car has good snow tyres on it when driving around mountain roads in the winter (with my kids in the back); I want my V brakes in good condition when doing downhills; and btw I'd want technicians in atomic plants to be bothered by the state of the sensors in the control systems...gear concerns should not REPLACE a concern with technique, but attending to kit and keeping it spot on is just one way of engaging with skiing - you are of course right in that technique is the core, but equipment condition is surely an important dimension - for example, getting DINs right for the person and their needs (which some shops do badly and leads to unecessary ACL damage), ensuring that bindings are on spec (which is often neglected); ensuring that boots are not so worn that they affect release etc.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I deal with ice by not going anywhere near any of it! As for carving on it, I don't think I could - and certainly not on my current fat skis.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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When I went to Valdesqui over Christmas I used their hire skis. Can't remember which manufacturer but they were the kind of thing you'd expect down your local dry slope ie strictly non-retail and manufactured specifically for the low-end rental market. Snow cover was thin and conditions icy after the overnight freeze. No edges on a very soft ski make a poor combination for these conditions. I found that I couldn't do good steered short turns much less carve but had to resort to short swings to control speed on the steeper bits and even they weren't easy. However I didn't end up on my inside ski nor fall over onto my hip.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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After reading through this old thread of mine again, a particular saying springs to mind: assume makes an ass out of u and me.
I'm a good intermediate to advanced skier, in the context of being a recreational skier. Accept the fact that some people are capable of learning faster than others and not every English skier overstates their ability.
One of the people I ski with has more than 200 weeks of experience, so I often have to ski faster than I'd like to - hence the occasional fall.
I never wrote that I don't take lessons. Why that was assumed, I don't know.
Just because I started skiing in 1981 doesn't mean I still wear flourescent pink gaiters and use 1980's skiing technique! The width of my stance is correct by modern standards.
I asked for advice from "advanced-to-expert piste carvers" because I wanted advice from properly experienced skiers, rather than some of the overly opinionated (and downright rude) fools who seem to pop up on Snowheads all too often.
I asked about getting grip on icy patches; if I had been refering to hard snow, I would have written "hard snow". Whether or not an icy patch is the same as "boilerplate" I don't know, because I'm not familiar with that term.
"...why would someone other than a racer want to carve ice?" - because emulating a racer is fun, carving is fun, and carving gives me more of a feeling of safety and stability than sliding does. Of course my skill level is nowhere near that of a racer and perhaps I was simply being unrealistic about carving over icy patches with non-race skis.
"It's ddpressing listening to people mzoan about equipmet when the prob. is themselves" - then refrain from reading these threads if they depress you and keep your cretinous assumptions to yourself.
Hurtle wrote:
The fact is that the vast majority of people on here don't need to be lectured on the subject of their own technical deficiencies, they're perfectly aware of them already and therefore - perfectly understandably - try to make their equipment as good as it can be to mitigate those deficiencies.
Exactly.
Having got all that off my chest, I still want to thank people for their suggestions. Some have been very helpful.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I have had a pair of Head super cross x-frame Titanium carver 180 skis for 10 years now. You can feel an extra push out of carved turns in them compared to normal straight skis. However, on ice they are just as difficult to carve as straight skis.
What would help I suspect, is if you sharpen the edges of your skis at the correct angle, before you go carving on ice.
I tend to take a different approach to skiing on ice.
1. Avoid it
2. Ski straight over it downhill until I hit snow
3. Sharpen my skis
4. Don't go skiing unless the weather and snow is good
Downhill skiers do not bother with carving ice. They just ski down hill as fast as possible. Admittedly they turn some pretty fast corners on ice, and having sharp edges would help I suppose.
I do not think a lesson would necessarily help. You would probably be better practicing, as you seem to know what carving is all about. You really need to get your ski to bend when carving, and maybe your weight is a disadvantage.
The solution of course to being light, is to go faster. This will exert more force in a turn, and will help you carve ice. It also helps if you try pushing your downhill ski slightly inward so that the contact of the edge is at the correct angle. Going faster will also have this effect.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Carving on ice is easy.
Just put a bit more pressure on the 2 inside balls of the feet on the downhill plank and fully round off every turn.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Walter-Spitty, Let's see, you ask for advice on
| Quote: |
| advanced-to-expert piste carvers |
but now claim to be pressed by your peers to ski faster than you feel comfortable and didums falls over . . . Quelle surprise! . . . and we're back buying a better condom equivalence. And you really think that hire skis are all so bad that you have to buy a high level ski to stop you falling off them? You must be going to the cheapest shop and hiring their beginner level skis 'cos there are plenty of very good skis and shops in every resort I've been to and I've yet to hire a blunt edged ski . . . a really crappy board once and exchanged within 30 minutes.
But you want advice on skis, so here's what I own(d) ride/slide and their merits or otherwise.
Line P3 twins: skinny centre mounted floppy park noodles, handled a summer week skills training on a glacier in conditions of diamond hard morning corduroy and windswept polished ice to ankle deep streams. Carved quite well from one to the other.
The old Nomads: tough as nails, stiff and blunt as a butterknife, carve like demons on long turns and quite fun on crust.
Fischer RC4 GS: would put a grin on a corpse on ice but need to be tamed by technique.
Atomic SX10ti: One of the best carving skis ever made but very single focused and very difficult to master other conditions.
Atomic GS12: work beautifully at warp speed, loathsome at anything else.
Vist GS: better than the Atomic.
Scott Punishers: Twintip plaything, lovely ski and carves sweetly on glacial ice.
Hired Dynastar Legend: lovely carving telemark ski with great grip on the early morning hard crust:
Hired Black Diamond (can't remember model) tele skis on perfect Breckenridge piste carved short and long with very easy release to skid . . . possibly the best alrounder I've used but only had a couple of days on them.
Borrowed Elan Magfire: Glorious carving ski
Every last one of these skis carves sweetly on very hard snow/icy crust and some will do the same on polished glacier.
You yourself QED . . .
| Quote: |
| One of the people I ski with has more than 200 weeks of experience, so I often have to ski faster than I'd like to - hence the occasional fall. |
buying a ski will not make you a better skier and it won't teach you to understand either the dynamics of differing skis nor the ability to check your edges before you walk out of the shop. For someone with your level of 'experience' these are self-demonstrably major gaps in your accomplishments.
You really think that by buying skis you're not going to keep falling? Call me a cretin by all means (I'm frequently called worse) but I'm not the one demonstrating that rather common trait.
Training and practice will stop you falling. Using a reputable hire shop and checking your hire skis condition (previously acquiring the knowledge of what to look for) will give you the opportunity to learn to control a range of skis. But if you just want to buy skis because you think they'll make you a better skier don't call me cretinous.
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