 Poster: A snowHead
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| Powderhound wrote: |
Dwarf Vader, nice band-wagon you've jumped on. And nice company you keep... |
Why thank you, I'm always happy to please.
I have skied with Sideshow_Bob and out of the two of you I can guess which one I am willing to do again.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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snowpatrol, well my niece and her friend were wiped out last week by teenage boys doing just that, unfortunately the boys were a lot bigger than an 11 year old girl. The girls had to be blood wagoned off the slopes, no lasting damage done thank god but they were very bruised and shaken. 
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Thu 25-02-10 18:00; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
Too often people of lower/intermediate ability believe that they have a god-given right to use the entire width of the slope, turn completely unpredictably, flail their poles and look steadfastly straight ahead. I, and those I ski with, ski as far to the outside as we can, usually on the soft snow swept aside by those gone before us and taking great pains to give as wide a berth as we can - this for our benefit as well as the downhill skier. If it looks like there might be a chance that the person in front is going to turn into our path - or set off into our path (the subject for this thread in the first place I you care to remember) - then it is good manners to alert them to your presence and shouting is antisocial at best, alarming at worst so a last resort only.
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Er - but in the skiers code (the same one you quote that says look up the slope before you set off) isn't the person downhill in the right here? They are perfectly entitled to use the whole piste and turn into your path if you are uphill of them. It's your responsiblity to avoid the people downhill of you - however irritating their inconsistent motion, they are entitled to it as long as they take account of those downhill of them. And if I am downhill of you and you tap your poles together to alert me to your presence I am certainly not going to stand aside to let your Lordship past.
PS - I wear a helmet and was very happy to be wearing it today when i flipped myself back landing rather heavily on my head in a moment of incompetence.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Thu 25-02-10 18:02; edited 1 time in total
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Sideshow_Bob wrote: |
| Powderhound wrote: |
the correlation between the wearing of helmets with the associated loss of sensory input and then becoming a nuisance, or danger on the slopes. Like Sideshow Bob and his part-time (sideshow?) fiancée.
And do you know what, most of this chat reinforces why I, and most of my ski friends spend 99% of our time avoiding pistes and ill-mannered, ill-informed punters to search for fresh tracks or new lines... |
You are now calling me a nuisance or danger on the slopes? WT holy F? Who on earth do you think you are? You know nothing about me, my abilities, skiing style or how safe a skier I am and are basing this allegation on the fact I get annoyed when idiots like you try to intimidate my fiancee out of the way by clicking their poles loudly in her direction on green runs well within her capability to ski well within control and where she has just as much right to be as anyone else on the slopes.  |
Sideshowbob, I'm a bit confused here after your initial swipe at powderhound I thought your Fiance was an intermediate - why would an intermediate be bothered about someone clicking their poles together to let them know they are there on a green run?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| cp1000 wrote: |
| Quote: |
Too often people of lower/intermediate ability believe that they have a god-given right to use the entire width of the slope, turn completely unpredictably, flail their poles and look steadfastly straight ahead. I, and those I ski with, ski as far to the outside as we can, usually on the soft snow swept aside by those gone before us and taking great pains to give as wide a berth as we can - this for our benefit as well as the downhill skier. If it looks like there might be a chance that the person in front is going to turn into our path - or set off into our path (the subject for this thread in the first place I you care to remember) - then it is good manners to alert them to your presence and shouting is antisocial at best, alarming at worst so a last resort only.
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Er - but in the skiers code (the same one you quote that says look up the slope before you set off) isn't the person downhill in the right here? They are perfectly entitled to use the whole piste and turn into your path if you are uphill of them. It's your responsiblity to avoid the people downhill of you - however irritating their inconsistent motion, they are entitled to it as long as they take account of the downhill of them. And if I am downhill of you and you tap your poles together to alert me to your presence I am certainly not going to stand aside to let your Lordship past.
PS - I wear a helmet and was very happy to be wearing it today when i flipped myself back landing rather heavily on my head in a moment of incompetence. |
Isnt the point here that clicking poles alerts you to someones presence? There is so much testosterone on this thread - isnt the idea to go out ski safely and enjoy yourself, not hold up others or intimidate people into making mistakes? maybe im missing something
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Troll?
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Nah - D*ckhead is a far more satisfactory analogy !
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I can well believe that things are better in the US, overall, when they are not shooting at each other, the Americans seem extremely polite, considerate and good natured.
I think the problem is more with some ski resorts which have played the "freeride" card without trying to educate some of their piste users. Now the resorts whinge when freeriders go off piste and trigger avalanches and I whinge when idiots in lids run into me.
Obviously a lot of piste users who are wearing a lid for safety reasons.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Sideshow_Bob wrote: |
| Powderhound, go and read the FIS skier code and get an ounce of clue about who has priority and responsibilities for overtaking skiers, especially when it's on nursery slopes. The rest of your post sounds like a completely lame attempt to troll. Wishing I asphyxiate? What a pathetic small man you are. Utterly contemptible. |
Irrelevant to my point; I am not debating the skier code nor rights of way, just making the mountain a safe place to be, however that might be done.
And I retract the asphyxiation comment, not like me at all, my apologies for allowing the red mist to get the better of me.
cp1000, hope you're not too stiff tomorrow and see my point above ref rights of way.
And what is 'troll-ing'??? If I am to stand accused of it, it would be nice to know what it means...
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| marksovereign wrote: |
| Sideshowbob, I'm a bit confused here after your initial swipe at powderhound I thought your Fiance was an intermediate - why would an intermediate be bothered about someone clicking their poles together to let them know they are there on a green run? |
Intermediate in terms of ability but slow and careful rather than the type that ski out of control and believe they own the place, and she's had some bad experiences with fools using her almost as a moving slalom pole buzzing her while clicking their poles. While I understand some people use pole-clicking as a simple indication that they are behind, unfortunately others people have the attitude (as demonstrated on here) that clicking of poles means "get out of my way, I'm going quick and may hit you if you don't get out of my way":
| Quote: |
| move over and if you hear poles being banged behind you, look up the hill and get out the way |
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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fatbob, competed at ski cross as mentioned earlier and yes they do need peripheral vision as you point out, but they expect people to be trying to take them out (in a non-contact fashion of course)...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Sideshow_Bob wrote: |
unfortunately others people have the attitude (as demonstrated on here) that clicking of poles means "get out of my way, I'm going quick and may hit you if you don't get out of my way":
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| move over and if you hear poles being banged behind you, look up the hill and get out the way |
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If anybody did that to me I'd take their poles and stuff them up their arrogant ar$e's.
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| Sideshow_Bob wrote: |
| marksovereign wrote: |
| Sideshowbob, I'm a bit confused here after your initial swipe at powderhound I thought your Fiance was an intermediate - why would an intermediate be bothered about someone clicking their poles together to let them know they are there on a green run? |
Intermediate in terms of ability but slow and careful rather than the type that ski out of control and believe they own the place, and she's had some bad experiences with fools using her almost as a moving slalom pole buzzing her while clicking their poles. While I understand some people use pole-clicking as a simple indication that they are behind, unfortunately others people have the attitude (as demonstrated on here) that clicking of poles means "get out of my way, I'm going quick and may hit you if you don't get out of my way":
| Quote: |
| move over and if you hear poles being banged behind you, look up the hill and get out the way |
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But I didn't say that... what you have quoted was relevant to a group that is stationary and about to set off into a moving skiers line. Otherwise it would be in order to signify presence, particularly on a narrow slope or track where there may only be limited room to pass - and I would be quite happy to go up the sides or over the edge to avoid a collision but the pole clicking is purely a first step to avoid that being necessary...
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You know it makes sense.
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| Sideshow_Bob wrote: |
| marksovereign wrote: |
| Sideshowbob, I'm a bit confused here after your initial swipe at powderhound I thought your Fiance was an intermediate - why would an intermediate be bothered about someone clicking their poles together to let them know they are there on a green run? |
Intermediate in terms of ability but slow and careful rather than the type that ski out of control and believe they own the place, and she's had some bad experiences with fools using her almost as a moving slalom pole buzzing her while clicking their poles. While I understand some people use pole-clicking as a simple indication that they are behind, unfortunately others people have the attitude (as demonstrated on here) that clicking of poles means "get out of my way, I'm going quick and may hit you if you don't get out of my way":
| Quote: |
| move over and if you hear poles being banged behind you, look up the hill and get out the way |
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Cant disagree with what your saying there - there appears to be two schools of thought here - 'get out of the way' and 'up yours, ski round me' - theres a world of difference to being used as a slalom pole and just a warning click! You cant paint everyone with the sanme brush! If anyone tries to use me as a slalom pole they will be unable to click there poles for a good while, but if its narrow and i havent noticed someones there i move over -- simples !!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Powderhound wrote: |
But I didn't say that... what you have quoted was relevant to a group that is stationary and about to set off into a moving skiers line. Otherwise it would be in order to signify presence, particularly on a narrow slope or track where there may only be limited room to pass - and I would be quite happy to go up the sides or over the edge to avoid a collision but the pole clicking is purely a first step to avoid that being necessary... |
Yes you did.
| Powderhound wrote: |
Richard_Sideways, having the horn is an occupational hazard I'm afraid and banging poles is purely through frustration at the need to get home to bang something more satisfying. Safe descents are a luxury, so move over and if you hear poles being banged behind you, look up the hill and get out the way, I'm in a hurry!!  |
Absolutely nothing to do with a stationary group. I've quoted it so you can't edit it too.
You're using your tapping ski poles as intimidation of other skiers to get out of your way. Getting skiers to look up the hill whilst they are skiing destroys their balance and possibly their confidence.
If you need to get home by a certain time, leave earlier, don't intimidate slower skiers.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Powderhound, ok, it wasn't very clear from your post that this particular pole-clacking was in reference to stationary skiers joining a piste or setting off, and I did state in my post that if you did it to me or took the attitude that it was my responsibility to get out of your whay while I was in motion then I wouldn't be too impressed. Perhaps not you but others certainly have the attitude that if they clack their poles the slower skier has to take responsibility for getting out of their way, just like some drivers will tail-gate and blow their horn/flash their lights despite the driver in front in the outer lane of a motorway/dual carriageway legitimately overtaking a line of slower-moving traffic.
Don't get me wrong, I do get frustrated with slow moving, erratic skiers on green runs, particularly where one needs to keep speed up, but I recognize their right to be there and take their time and my responsibility to overtake them with minimal impact to them. Bottom of the Sarenne in ADH is a particular example where the black merges with the green and the trail is very very flat. I'd love to be able to get them out of my way or to have some sort of fast lane at the edge where the slower skiers were told not to ski, but unfortunately these things are impractical and unmanageable and having to take avoiding measures is the price we pay for skiing on green/blue runs. Having spent time skiing with someone who is not a fast and confident skier made me appreciate how certain things more advanced/experienced skiers take for granted can actually come across as intimidating and downright scary to others who are not as able.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Spyderman, ah that was meant to be ironic, in the spirit of that conversation...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Sideshow_Bob, I think (hope!) that we are in fact in heated agreement...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Powderhound, perhaps... up to a point. I will not clack my poles as indication that I'm there when overtaking unless I know the person personally and know that they are a sufficiently good skier to understand and not be alarmed or intimidated by me doing so. I understand that some of the more nervous and less experienced may find pole clacking intimidating. It infuriates me when people use pole clacking in a manner that's very clearly "I'm going fast, get out of my way" on green or blue runs.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Sideshow_Bob wrote: |
| Powderhound, ok, it wasn't very clear from your post that this particular pole-clacking was in reference to stationary skiers joining a piste or setting off, and I did state in my post that if you did it to me or took the attitude that it was my responsibility to get out of your whay while I was in motion then I wouldn't be too impressed. |
I think you might have mistaken their intention.
It isn't so much to "get out of way" but rather "keep doing what you've been doing and don't change it".
So if you're stationary, stay put. If you're making swingy turns, don't change into big arcing ones till I'm passed.
It wouldn't have helpped the matter if you suddenly stopped, either. In particular if it were a narrow'ish flat'ish traverse.
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Anyone remember The Broons? A staple of their comedy was regular misunderstanding: inevitably the Bairn or the Twins would mishear something Granpaw said, and the whole family acted on it until the truth was revealed in the final panel - to everyones amusement.
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I would never click my poles at someone who was in continuous movement and I wanted to overtake as every skier was in the same boat once and I don't see the point in intimidating potentially nervous beginners or intermediates. If someone would do that to me I don't think that I would react unless I was clearly in the wrong. If someone flashes their lights at me on the motorway when I'm in the flow of traffic it would have the same effect of me making a point of ignoring it completely.
However if someone moves off from being stationary without looking first as I'm approaching, they normally get a few choice words rather than a click of the poles. The universal language of shouting normally works...
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This thread is the pits, really it is.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Yesterday my sister crossed the tips of her skis in soft snow on a run and skied straight into a tree she is a competent intermediate with 10 weeks of skiing in 4yrs. The result was a 2 inch cut where the goggles and the helmet almost met. A ride on a sledge and then an ambulance and a visit to the E/R a CT scan etc..... 12 stitches a black eye no broken bones but wrecked goggles a big dent in the helmet, it did its job and now it will be retired and a new one puchased. We are going to offer it to the local ski patrol to use in showing kids why they need lids.
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joneski, Glad she's ok'ish 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Sideshow_Bob et al,
actually what do you consider good manners to indicate your presence on for example a green narrow cat-track, Helmet or no?
I'm sure that if you are about to overtake someone, giving due consideration to their chosen speed, and if a beginner ( you've noted that they do not go near the downhill edge thus alerting you to their relative ability and therefore enabling you to use that as the side which you will pass them) and choosing your moment when there is maximum distance between you, then I contend it is STILL good manners to give an audible warning of your approach.
Air horns or other sudden loud noise possibly having the opposite of the desired effect, I would think a little pole clacking a reasonable gesture.
Of course, it may be interpreted (indeed used) as arrogant, rather than friendly, but the effect, awareness of your presence, has still been achieved. And hopefully thus avoiding injury or harm to either or both parties.
Other options are a small cheery "View Haloo" or a robust " look out below" but whichever method is used, I always considered a polite "thank you" as you complete what is now a safe manouevre ought to ensure that the passee understands that the passer is not an arrogant d1ckhead, but a gentle kind of chap.
Mind you, I've been wrong on t'internet before.
I have a bell on my bike, as does my daughter. My bike is well cared for, and I pride myself that it makes little or no noise when being ridden. I use my bell to alert walkers on a dual use track of my presence when approaching from behind. We say 'thank-you' when they turn, and perhaps step to one side. Quite often you get a comment - "how nice to hear a bell again". They do not consider it arrogant, they appreciate the good sense. Perhaps we should all fit ding-a-lings to our skis?
(edit for speeling)
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Lizzard wrote: |
| Quote: |
I am one of those that bangs their poles when there is a group of people poised for the off at a choke point that I am not stopping at
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Bit pointless really, since huge swathes of people have no idea what you mean by it. |
And most of the ones who do will think him an arrogant pratt for it
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You know it makes sense.
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| Hundred quid on a helmet or a hundred quid on a ski lesson. Most injuries are self-inflicted and as a direct result of losing control, most often attributable to poor technique, being over-equipped or tiredness (out of shape). I don't wear a lid but then I'm an arrogant SOB. |
Why would anybody spend £100 on a lid?
there are quite a few available for under £50 (and some such as the Lidl ones for much less even than that).
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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| JimW wrote: |
| I use my bell to alert walkers on a dual use track of my presence when approaching from behind. |
I think there is a difference in that pedestrians rarely panic and lose control of their feet if they are spooked by the sound of something behind them. Nervous skiers, on the other hand, frequently make unexpected direction changes if they are anxious about what's behind them. I don't think pole clacking is a good think to do, and in some circumstances can be very disrespectful of the skier in front of you. On cat tracks I either pass when I'm certain there's room, or I'm patient for a minute or so until it becomes safe to pass.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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'Why have helmets made people arrogant?' is both a stupid and difficult question to answer. It could be any number of things ...
They make your head bigger.
Helmet manufacturers routinely lace the linings with a contact psychoactive compound to enduce a sensation of superiority.
The non helmet wearing chromosomes are associated with a genetic predisposition for paranoia and low self esteem.
Helmet wearers are clearly youthful, attractive and successful individuals of good breeding who have a tendency to patronise ungifted bobble hat wearing muppets.
But what's suddenly wrong with snow blade / ski board trolling ? Helmet trolling is just so noughties.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I flash my lights at lane hoggers on the motorway, but I don't wear a helmet. Am I doing something wrong?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
| Why have helmets made people so arrogant? |
Troll. Move on.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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rob@rar, I sort of agree - OTOH you'd be surprised at how many people will jump suddenly in the most inappropriate of directions without looking if they hear you at the last second (ask MrsW about OAPs with a death-wish on the Tissington Trail...)
How much more are the nervous spooked when they DON'T hear you?
No matter how much it is non-PC to say it,. there will be people travelling at different speeds on the cat tracks, and I'd rather people were aware ( hell I'd rather I was made aware) of an approaching slider travelling at a diffferent velocity.
Dwarf Vader, I'll set 'em up, you knock 'em down. 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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IMHO JimW, Has it right. Alerting the downhill skier of your presence when you intend to overtake is polite, not rude. if I hear a pole click behind me I know I am about to be passed and which side to expect them to come from which reduces my uncertainty. It's not a 'get out of my way' it's a 'here I am' indicator.
I guess the key thing is HOW it's used.
I use it on the few occasions that I overtake anyone, but I don't use as an excuse for 'barging through' where there isn't room to do so safely. If I am approaching someone who I am confident speaks english (like Mrs Axs) I'll add a 'coming by on your right' as well. This applies to skiing down cattracks and cycling on narrow lanes.
Rob@rar is also correct though. Sometime it is better to just be patient for a minute until there is room to give the downhill skier a wide berth. This may be because the path is very narrow for a while, or because the skier is very unpredictable. Either way if you collide or even intimidate them it's your fault not theirs.
Why all the sniping at each other over this? Oh I forgot - it's what we do! 
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I've noticed when cycling that pedestrians are much more alarmed by a voice ("excuse me, please") than by a bell.
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