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ski carriage Crystal/Thomsonfly

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Can anyone advise me if at Manchester airport they weigh skis and hand luggage. I know hand luggage needs to fit in their frame.


Thanks in advance
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Not in my experience, but that wasn't this year, so could have changed.
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livertransplantplease, I'm using them from Edinburgh and have in previous years. The max in ski carriage is normally 32kg - this is a health and safety restriction for baggage handlers. However this year when my tickets arrived it stated 23kg. I phoned them yesterday to double check, as I'm planning just to pack everything into my Head Monster Bag and was told that it should be fine as long as not exceeding 32kg and have paid and booked for skis in advance. They have in previous trips weighed them but not checked contents, so last year I had 6 pairs of skis in the one bag Very Happy , but was fine as did not exceed 32kg
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Quote:

last year I had 6 pairs of skis in the one bag, but was fine as did not exceed 32kg


Seems light at 5kg a pair.....Mrs MA's 158 Salomon carvers, my 160 Rossi Bandits plus 4 poles and bag weigh 14kg.....
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I have had 4 pairs in a pro roll and it weighed 31.5kg. The bag is stupid heavy by itself though.
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mountainaddict, 4 of them were kids pairs - think I even managed a couple of their ski boots too Smile
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In the brochure it says only one pair of skis per payment. I have paid double for 2 pairs in one bag. Am I an idiot rolling eyes Puzzled
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
I had boardbag checked at check-in only last week, had 2 boards and 2 bindings and a shed load else in there and was allowed to continue...having said that I have been working for TUI this season and had the area manager with me who had a word at the Thompson check-in desk!

Hand luggage was not weighed and was quite a large rucksack also rammed full, seems the norm now if you can lift it and put it in the overhead compartment on your own your ok!


maggi wrote:
In the brochure it says only one pair of skis per payment. I have paid double for 2 pairs in one bag. Am I an idiot rolling eyes Puzzled


Without sounding harsh maggi...yes! I've been stung on pre paying/over weight luggage/hidden extras so forget about it and enjoy your hols, just dont do it again!
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maggi wrote:
In the brochure it says only one pair of skis per payment. I have paid double for 2 pairs in one bag. Am I an idiot rolling eyes Puzzled


Yes Laughing
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maggi wrote:
In the brochure it says only one pair of skis per payment. I have paid double for 2 pairs in one bag. Am I an idiot rolling eyes Puzzled


Depends on the luck of the draw. I've seen the TUI check-in desk staff weigh ski bags and, at Bristol a couple of years ago, they asked the people ahead of us to open the bags (presumably because the weight was a bit much for one pair) but it seems to be fairly unusual.
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We didn't take skis this year, did last year and they weren't weighed.

This year we took hold luggage including a boot bag that was well over our limit (for three of us). The check in staff at Gatwick and Salzburg didn't bat an eyelid, and no over weight fees. This was with Crystal/ThomsonFly.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
boabski wrote:
...pack everything into my Head Monster Bag...

Very brave.

If you read the small print with regards ski carriage they don’t guarantee to carry your ski/board bag on the same flight as you or your normal hold luggage.
As witnessed by myself and 39 others this Jan, plane was overweight so ground crew offloaded 40 ski/board bags. A number of bods waiting to see if their bag was 1 of the 40 offloaded had, like you, put all their stuff in said bag.
All they had for two days was what they were wearing on the outbound flight!


Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Fri 26-02-10 18:32; edited 1 time in total
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Don't worry. Put the skis in your trousers and ask if there's a membership desk for the mile high club.
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You know it makes sense.
we went with skis from manchester, yes they did weigh them but didn't seem to worry about it much. The thonson / crystal weight I think is 12kg for one ski csrriage. We had one snowboard bag at 14kg and a ski bag at 8kg. They just put the tags on and sent us to the oversize luggage bit.
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I have been dementing myself over this with Crystal!

Am I right in thinking if 2 of us are holidaying - 1 can check in suitcase (20kg) and the other both ski's (up to 20kg) we don't have to pay extra for ski carrige, even if the double ski bag is oversize?
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jablonka, No, that is incorrect, unless you are traveling by scheduled airline (i.e. not charter).

You need to pay extra for the ski carriage, it cannot just be your one bag up to 20Kg.

This is the relevant part of their T&C
Quote:

Carriage of skis/snowboards and boots by air: With a growing number of skiers and snowboarders taking their own equipment on holiday, charter airlines are finding it increasingly difficult to cope with the extra weight and handling of these items. This has increased the risk of luggage being off-loaded from aircraft. In common with all other major winter sports operators, we have therefore introduced a system to improve the reliability of ski/snowboard carriage, at a cost of £30 per pair of skis/snowboard carried (max one set off skis/board per £30 charge made).The ski & snowboard bag must contain the pair of skis or snowboard only.

If you wish to have skis or snowboards added to your booking, these must be registered at the time of booking and if they should fail to arrive on your flight, the charge will be refunded and skis forwarded to you in resort free of charge. We will also provide superior skis for your use until your skis arrive. If you do not pre-book your skis/board carriage, there is no guarantee that they will be carried, but if accepted, a minimum £40charge will be levied at the check-in desk by an appointed rep. This charge does not apply to scheduled airlines, unless operating as a charter, where ski equipment may be included in the total baggage allowance and additional charges may be levied if this is exceeded. Please note ski/snowboard boots contribute to the overall luggage allowance and must be checked in as hold luggage.
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Hello all

First of all, full disclose: I work for Crystal looking after web and marketing stuff. First post, please be gentle Smile

Not an aviation expert myself but the topic of ski carriage has been coming up quite a bit recently, both on snowheads and on our own customer service forum here: http://help.crystalski.co.uk/crystalski

For those looking to understand "the rules" please read the following links:
Terms and Conditions of booking with us:
http://www.crystalski.co.uk/our-policies/terms-and-conditions/flight-transfer/ (there is content about ski carriage in the section entitled "Travel - important information")

Questions and queries about ski carriage answered by our aviation guy and our MD (and Snowheads regular!) Simon Cross:
http://help.crystalski.co.uk/crystalski/topics/baggage_and_ski_carriage_queries


Our advice to customers with regards to ski carriage is to err on the side of caution as excess baggage charges can be very expensive, regardless of which airline you're flying with...

Please feel free to ask if there are further questions

Thanks
David Jarvis
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David,

Could you tell me how it is fair that me and my partner can fit our gear in 1 lot of 20kg of baggage
And I have to pay £60 for x2 ski carrige (in 1bag)? I don't mind paying for ski carrige as long as I
have value and feel its fair.

If its about weight how can you justify this I am feeling a tad ripped off!
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Hi jablonka

A few things to get straight:

1. Thomson Airways set the policy with regards to how ski carriage is charged as first and foremost this is to do with the larger payload of ski flights and the technical nature of flying into Alpine airports.

2. Crystal have always tried to ensure that our holiday prices and ski carriage policies represent good value for customers, balancing the requirements of skiers like yourselves and those who choose wither to hire equipment in resort, and those who don't ski.

3. We also have to consider how the policy is enforced by check-in staff, without unnecessarily delaying the process at the airport.

This is how this year's policy has been arrived at. As you can see it's not straightforward by any means, and as a result "fairness" is rather subjective. Also we would love to hear how we stack up against our tour operator and low cost airline competition, who we believe to be either less generous or more expensive generally.

Beyond that though, we are now working with Thomson Airways to try to introduce a "weight concept" where passengers + total baggage are factored in for next winter.

Hope this answers your question

Thanks
DJ
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David Jarvis, playing by the strict rules quoted on websites, Easyjet are a lot more flexible than Thomson Airways when it comes to luggage/ski allowances. Ski bags don't have to contain just skis and weight limits are applied across the entire number of bags/people booked/paid-for. On Easyjet one hold bag and one ski bag gives one 32kg, split however one likes, putting boots/clothes/whatever in one's ski bag if one likes. Thomson officially give you what, 6kgs for your ski bag? My bag weighs almost that alone with nothing in it.
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David Jarvis wrote:
Hi jablonka

A few things to get straight:

1. Thomson Airways set the policy with regards to how ski carriage is charged as first and foremost this is to do with the larger payload of ski flights and the technical nature of flying into Alpine airports.

Hope this answers your question

Thanks
DJ


But aren't Thomson Airways and Crystal both part of TUI? If so, it is a little disingenuous for Crystal to palm off responsibility.

And to those who wonder about packing everything into a big board bag - at Calgary a couple of years ago we saw people being told to unload clothes etc from board bags, and given plastic bin liners to pack them in, because the rules said one board, or pair of skis only in the ski/board bag (we got away with a 2 small pairs in one bag, however).

Like all of these travel threads, you can chance it, and normally get away with it, but if you don't get away with it, it could be awkward, embarrassing or expensive.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
A point about fairness - I discoverd that ski carriage with if flight booked throughThomson is £25pp and £30pp if you are holidaying with Crystal but flying with Thomson (both owned by TUI). Rant over!

anyway a Very Merry Christmas everyone!
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Sideshow_Bob wrote:
David Jarvis, playing by the strict rules quoted on websites, Easyjet are a lot more flexible than Thomson Airways when it comes to luggage/ski allowances. Ski bags don't have to contain just skis and weight limits are applied across the entire number of bags/people booked/paid-for. On Easyjet one hold bag and one ski bag gives one 32kg, split however one likes, putting boots/clothes/whatever in one's ski bag if one likes. Thomson officially give you what, 6kgs for your ski bag? My bag weighs almost that alone with nothing in it.


Agree totally. Easyjet's policy is far more convenient. Their ski carriage charge may be slightly more expensive but they give more value for it.
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sarah wrote:
Agree totally. Easyjet's policy is far more convenient. Their ski carriage charge may be slightly more expensive but they give more value for it.



This is more or less precisely our point - convenience costs money. Crystal's policy is less expensive - as we stand for great value - and for most people it's sufficient. It also means that people hiring equipment in resort and non-skiers (not an insignificant number in total) are not penalised.

EasyJet may have taken a different route. You pays your money...

On a slightly different tack, and stirring the pot a bit more no doubt, I wonder if people haggle as much over how they get to and from the airport, or over the cost of their return resort transfers (which are free with Crystal!!)

Cheers
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David Jarvis wrote:


On a slightly different tack, and stirring the pot a bit more no doubt, I wonder if people haggle as much over how they get to and from the airport, or over the cost of their return resort transfers (which are free with Crystal!!)

Cheers

"Free" Sorry, nothing is free, the transfer is just another cost to which you apply your profit margin before selling the package to your customers.

It's about time the large TOs stop taking their customers for idiots. An aircraft is chartered at a fixed cost from a carrier, it'll cost the same to charter whether you put 1 person on it or 150 people on it. Excess baggage/ski carriage is just profiteering by the TO.
If you make a charge to take ski equipment with a weight limit on the bag, your customer should be able to use that weight limit that they've paid for up to that limit, simple.

Be up front and more people might use you.

Welcome to snowHeads. snowHead
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Spyderman, I don't know the agreement between Crystal and Thomson (do you?) which will be separately accounting centres of TUI. But I do know that if you had just one passenger and luggage the payload would be significantly less than a full plane load, and so there would be less fuel required to achieve the same flight. See notes on payload and range. Airframe fatigue would be lower, too. So, although there would be some fixed costs (for example for the flight deck crew) other actual costs would vary quite a bit.

Skiers seem to love to say that there is no extra cost to the airline for the excess baggage we call ski bags. It is not true. Skis are excess baggage carried at, for the most part, a very reasonable cost. I am surprised at the amount of whinging that goes on here about them.
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Spyderman wrote:

"Free" Sorry, nothing is free, the transfer is just another cost to which you apply your profit margin before selling the package to your customers.


My apologies - by "free" I of course meant "included in the price". If you DIY your holiday you have to pay "extra" for your transfer once you have sorted your flight and accommodation. With any tour operator, there is no need for this extra step. The transfer is part of the flight + accom package.

With regards to the comments about ski carriage, I think a little point of order is due there too. We don't charter the plane. We buy the seats at a negotiated rate from Thomson Airways. You're right in the sense that we pay for all the seats regardless of whether we fill them or not. But the seat rate doesn't factor in the cost of the excess ski carriage. Therefore Thomson Airways set the rate for ski carriage based on their own overheads.

Also without wanting to sound arrogant, the comment about more people travelling with us made me chuckle a bit. We are the largest ski operator in the UK! We're not complacent about it at all, but it does seem that there's a dedicated band of snowheads who like to take 'pot shots' as a result. A very British trait I think...

Keep em coming! Smile

Cheers
DJ
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achilles, I totally agree. Skis (and other outsize baggage) have to be loaded and unloaded by hand rather than by conveyor belt. I'm happy to pay £30 return for the privilege of taking my own skis knowing that they will be handled by a person (my ski boot bag got mangled by the conveyor at Birmingham airport last season) and also knowing that if they fail to arrive at my destination I will have free superior ski hire until they do.

I can't help thinking the people that 'whinge' are the ones that want to take more luggage than the 20kg plus ski/board bag standard maximum. Whether it's because they have more than one pair of skis, specialist equipment or just aren't good at packing light, they don't want to pay more than someone who plays by the 'rules'. I've never been anywhere near using up my 20kg before, but in fairness I do have a very lightweight holdall.
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achilles, My point is that the rental cost of the plane is the same whether it's full or not. Obviously the actual cost to the carrier is weight dependant, it's cheaper for them if they fly empty and cheaper for the company chartering the plane if it's full. These charter rates are pre-agreed, which is why late deals are offered by TOs, to get bums on seats. I'm certain that the airline doesn't charge extra for ski carriage.
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Welcome to snowHeads David Jarvis snowHead Your comments are very welcome Very Happy
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Welcme to snowHeads David Jarvis,
Quote:

there's a dedicated band of snowheads who like to take 'pot shots' as a result. A very British trait I think...

Just be grateful you don't drive a BMW or holiday in La Rosiere Laughing
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queen bodecia, My standard skiing holdall, which carries my boots, all clothing, shovel, probe, and helmet weighs 20kg. I can't imagine why people feel they need more - unless they are staying somewhere like the Zermatterhof.
Spyderman, I don't know if airlines charge for handling skis or not (clearly the baggage handling compnies will). I knew the chief engineer of a regional airline who was close to hating them because of the problems of getting them sensibly in the hold.


Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Tue 21-12-10 9:56; edited 2 times in total
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Boredsurfing, Laughing Laughing
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queen bodecia wrote:
achilles, I totally agree. Skis (and other outsize baggage) have to be loaded and unloaded by hand rather than by conveyor belt. I'm happy to pay £30 return for the privilege of taking my own skis knowing that they will be handled by a person (my ski boot bag got mangled by the conveyor at Birmingham airport last season) and also knowing that if they fail to arrive at my destination I will have free superior ski hire until they do.

I can't help thinking the people that 'whinge' are the ones that want to take more luggage than the 20kg plus ski/board bag standard maximum. Whether it's because they have more than one pair of skis, specialist equipment or just aren't good at packing light, they don't want to pay more than someone who plays by the 'rules'. I've never been anywhere near using up my 20kg before, but in fairness I do have a very lightweight holdall.


If you'd been able to put your boots in with your skis they'd have been safe from the mangling wink

My only 'whinge' with all of this is that with Crystal boots are not classed and included as part of the ski equipment carriage. You have to take the weight of the boots from your 20kg allowance and more importantly for me and quite a few others you are not allowed to pack them in with your skis in a bag which is specially designed for doing this.

So I guess you're right, I am a whinger because I want to take my 20kg of luggage + my skis + my boots. It's not really unreasonable.

David Jarvis Easyjet charge £7 more than Crystal, that's all, not a significant amount of money for the convenience their policy gives. But like you say (and thanks for reminding me) I paid my money....on this occasion without checking the baggage policy first. I will go back to Neilson next time I want a package holiday as their policy whilst similar to yours does at least allow for pooling baggage and ski equipment across the combined allowance.

Oh and welcome to Snowheads snowHead
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David Jarvis wrote:


Also without wanting to sound arrogant, the comment about more people travelling with us made me chuckle a bit. We are the largest ski operator in the UK! We're not complacent about it at all, but it does seem that there's a dedicated band of snowheads who like to take 'pot shots' as a result. A very British trait I think...

Keep em coming! Smile

Cheers
DJ

I skied with my wife using Crystal this year in Zermatt and had a very good time. Paid for a single ski carriage, 2 pairs of skis in 1 bag of course. Laughing

Not taking pot shots, just want fair transparent policies. Little Angel
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My skis and sticks come to more than 6kg without the bag. Plus boots and ski bag and it is 12.5kg.
(I have a bad back and recently need a small roll of memory foam for hard beds = 2kg. but it fits in my rucksack as hand luggage.)

Rope, harness and carabiners etc =1,5kg. Add shovel, probe, avalanche transciever, a book, maps and perhaps off-piste book for the area, wax file, travelling iron, scraper etc for servicing my skis, a few energy bars, water bottle etc etc. Wash things, deodorant, suncream etc. Plus several kg for the bag. There is already not much weight left for all skiing and after ski clothes. I need my Easyjet 32kg. I'm usually a shade over.
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
sarah, my boots, all clothing, shovel, probe, and helmet weigh 20kg and fit inside my main hold baggage. Unless you are carrying ski servicing gear and cravasse kit like snowball, I am pushed to think why you should want more.
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achilles wrote:
sarah, my boots, all clothing, shovel, probe, and helmet weigh 20kg and fit inside my main hold baggage. Unless you are carrying ski servicing gear and cravasse kit like snowball, I am pushed to think why you should want more.


And I am pushed to see how you can manage with all that within the 20kg, different strokes for different folks eh? I only want the extra weight of the boots included in the ski carriage charge and the flexibility to pack stuff in the most convenient way. Other operators can manage this so Crystal could too.
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My holdall including ski boots and all clothing, etc. weighed 14kg last season. I put the ski boots in the holdall when the boot bag got mangled. My ski bag isn't big enough nor the right shape to carry boots as well so they are better off in my holdall. I have learned the lesson about the separate boot bag!

Is 20kg including boots really so difficult? I daresay a lots depends on how much the suitcase or bag weighs in the first place. Mine is a wheeled lightweight holdall that weighs less than 1kg unladen, so it does make it very easy for me to stay under the weight limit.

However it does seem a bit daft for airlines to squabble about the odd kilos of luggage weight here and there when the weight of a passenger can vary by as much as 50kg!
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