 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Who fitted the original boots?
Go back to them and complain. If they are any good they'll sort you out - even if it means them standing the cost of a new pair. They've done a cr*p job in the first place, and they should pay for it to be fixed, not you. If they refuse, and you paid with a Credit Card, then the card company are jointly liable, contact them and insist you get what you've paid for: boots that *fit*.
The missus had problems with her last pair of new boots. Went back to the shop and their top boot fitting guy agreed that she'd been fitted with the wrong size boot, so they upped it half a size, and now she doesn't even undo her boots at lunchtime - unheard of in the past: the boots always came off!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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If your nail's black it's quite possible you needed to clip them before skiing; from the infomation you give there's no reason not to think that's the case.
As for sizes, between different manufacturers I'd not be surprised, my Atomics are an apparently large size than my Salomons.
Most bootfitters in the UK, in my opinion, are about as competent as the the average "techie" from PC World  Many in the Alpes aren't a lot better.
If you genuinely have pronounced arches then you have feet that differ significantly from the norm' and need to use someone like profeet, if you're able to walk vigourously without arch support in normal shoes or walking shoes then you do not have significantly high arches and your feet are basically normal in shape.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Black nails, from my experience, have occured when i was in skis that were too fast, so, I ended up lifting my toes to try to control the skis.
Now, it's not helped by having boots that are too stiff to be flex properly.
Did either fitter take the liner out of the shell, and have you stand in the boot shell, bare feet, no socks?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| ise wrote: |
| Most bootfitters in the UK, in my opinion, are about as competent as the the average "techie" from PC World Many in the Alpes aren't a lot better. |
Ise, I totally agree.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| rockyrobin wrote: |
| My arches are very pronounced as when I had the original fitting I was getting cramps in the outside edge of my feet. I was tolod this was because of the arches not bearing enough downward thrust from my weight. One pair of conformable foot beds later and the cramps were gone with my arches supported. |
That sound like nonsense to me and whoever told you has a basic lack of understanding of some fairly basic mechanics. The way loading works when the arches are needing support will increases stresses above the arches back towards the achilles area. Like I said, you can easily test this, if you can walk at any reasonable pace, especially up a hill, in your normal shoes/walking shoes without pain and without arch support then you do not have pronounced arches.
However, you've mentioned Xwave, I've some Xwaves and the flaw with them for me is the stunningly high internal footbed, I've chucked mine away and hacked some from an older pair into place. I had some pressure points around the outside of the instep prior to doing this and that's 100% certainly not due to arch support issues; I do genuinely have pronounced arches and have perfect supports for them, that's just not where you going to feel the pressue.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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ise, I think your probably right, thanks for the insight 
When I mentioned the footbeds the guy had a looksee at them. I thought I could just swap them over to the Nordica's but when I asked about this was told that they would rather do a new set for me. Makes me wonder if the original fitter over exagerated the arch support and had made my foot try to fall forward in the boot everytime I tried to ride the balls of my feet while carving. Like you say - I can walk ok in my walking boots with no arch supports fitted so the original fit must have just been wrong and caused the cramps in the first place.
When I was trying to figure out the reason for my toes getting hammered I too noticed what you did with the high footbed positioning.
I even had the idea of getting the blue plastic footbed platform onto a belt sander and taking it down at the front a little but I'm glad I didn't now or I would have been stuck with them.
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If you have heat remouldable footbeds they should be able to reheat your existing ones and rework them rather than sell you a new set.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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rockyrobin, I can feel the threads at the front of the liners with my toes. I get no black toes.
I suspect that this is because my midfoot area is supported properly and there is no chance whatsoever of my being able to slam my toes forward in the shell with any portion of my entire body weight.
I could be wrong.
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comprex, Thanks for the info on your liner fit.
Sounds like the liner should act almost like a sock without gripping your foot.
Your analogy of foot slamming back and forward makes sense.
Guess a long discussion with boot fitter next week before commencing boot fit will be in order before commiting myself again. 
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You know it makes sense.
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rockyrobin, did you notice WTFH's remark about having your balance too far back?
| Quote: |
, have occured when i was in skis that were too fast, so, I ended up lifting my toes to try to control the skis.
Now, it's not helped by having boots that are too stiff to be flex properly. |
If you consider the upper rear boot cuff as the pivot point of the lever, weight goes back-> toes get jammed forward. It doesn't matter how much room there is in front of them, though, of course, a larger shell may make the sliding easier.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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comprex, Thanks for the heads up on WTFH's comments. Somehow I managed to skim them 
Wear The Fox Hat, I don't know if my ski's are too fast They're Atomic M9's, 157cm long, 11m turn radius with binding set at 5.25. I weigh 140 lb's and am 5'11" tall.
Have skied since I was about 12, am 32 now and would put myself on the slush and rubble ski index at 6 out of 10. I am a timid skier in trying to make sure no harm comes to myself. I can ski fast, carve no problem keeping weight over front of ski's and manage all the red runs I have tried to date no problem, but when they get steep I will slow things down really cranking up the turns across the piste going back to my old skidder stylee skills of my youth till I feel comfortable again. This is probably where i'm sitting back when I shouldn't 
I think it may be this and the bad boots that got my toes the good hammering.
When I get my boots back i'm going to look at getting some lessons on brushing some technique into my skiing  and how to go about steeps with confidence.
| Quote: |
| Did either fitter take the liner out of the shell, and have you stand in the boot shell, bare feet, no socks? |
The original bootfitter that is supposed to be replacing my boots next week did not.
The one I went to for a second opinion did take the shells out, popped a pair of padded ski socks on my foot and popped the liner on. He then said it was too small with my toe just touching the end and corner.
I'm currently very confused as to which bootfitter to trust as if push comes to shove i'll use the credit note at the original shop for something else.
Only thing i'm worried about though is getting boots that are too big. I know from my younger years in hire boots just how painful that can be too
I'm currently looking on the net on info on how to fit the boot myself while watching the fitter so as to be able to put the brakes on proceedings if I feel things are going in the wrong direction. To date i'm not finding much. Guess the bootfitting trade wants to keep the info close to their chest or i'm just hopeless with my g@@gle fu
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Poster: A snowHead
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So, what sort of boots do you have?
OK, a good bootfitter should have you standing in the shells, no liner. Then checking to see the gap at your heel. If they are just getting you to stand in the LINER, then get a new bootfitter!
When standing in the shell, if you can't get one finger behind your heel, then it's too small. If you can get two fingers in easily, then it's too big.
(this is a rough estimation, and is only a quick check to get the shell size right)
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Wear The Fox Hat, The boots I had and returned were Salomon XWave 8's.
The pair i'm looking at getting fitted to replace are Nordica Beast 8's.
I'm wondering if my problem may be that these boots probably are ok for my ability if I weighed 12 stone, but being a lightweight I do wonder if a slightly lesser rated boot may be the order of the day, or at least one with flex adjustment to play with?
Originally when I bought the ski's I was told first that a 164 in the Metron M9 would be my ideal size. When I told them my stats they quickly backtracked on that saying I could get away with a 150 at a pinch, but felt the 157 would the best compromise. Could it be i'm in the same boat with my boots too?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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rockyrobin, you have hit the nail on the head!
Make sure you go for a boot you can flex well. Otherwise, you'll get black toes every time.
Where are you located? What ski shops can you get to?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Not sure about that, robin. They might read my name, and reply "Who the fox hat?"
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Hehe, they'd probably think they've got a "right one here" in me as a customer
I've just been looking at the flex index for XWave 8's - 8.5!
No wonder I was suffering in light of what you guys have said.
WTF did the fitter not ask me my weight etc. All they wanted to know was my ability. Not impressed.
I've just been looking at Technica boots and they do a nice looking boot with a flex index of 6.5 called the Rival X8.
Are the flex indexes for each manufacturer remotely comparable?
Just trying to get some ideas together before hitting the shops again so I can try and prevent myself from being railroaded again.
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rockyrobin, no, flex indices aren't to any standard. The Rival X8 is a very nice boot. Best thing to do is try as many boots as possible, different brands, different models, and once you get the one with the best fit, that you can flex, then that's the one
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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rockyrobin, do they also stock Atomic, say the B9? My X8s are the 2003/04 model, and Atomic or Dalbello would have been the fit alternatives (no Nordica Beasts then). My next fitting is for the Krypton.
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comprex, They do stock Atomic boots. I've had a looksee at the B9's but they look on the flex index to be too stiff.
I was thinking maybe the B7's (flex index 7) at a push and maybe the B5's (flex index 6.5) may be more suitable?
In light on what WTFH has said about stiff boots causing a pivot and my lack of body weight not being able to flex the boots i've come round to the idea of needing quite a soft boot if I am going to avoid the toe hammering when things get rough and I manage to fudge my slide
I've also seen that all their hire boots are Tecnica so I will see if they have any Rival X8's (flex index 6.5). Do you find yours are easy to flex? Do you remember if they differed much from the Atomic B9's in flex?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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rockyrobin, have a look and see if they have any of the Rossignol Soft boots, I got myself a pair of soft light 1's this year and they are really comfortable, flex wise they're fairly easy going, for me they are very flexible but I can make supposedly really stiff boots flex like beginners boots
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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rockyrobin, Might be worth a trip across to Kendal, go and see Andy or Pete at Anything Technical, if anybody can sort your boot issue out, then its these guys
http://www.skiequipmentuk.co.uk/
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srobbo, If I don't get any satisfaction from my local shop i'll take a drive over there.
One for the bookmarks, thanks
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You know it makes sense.
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rockyrobin, my Tecnicas are easier to flex than the B9; I have the "very stiff" yellow inserts in them. I find that the fit differences are in the heel pocket (marginally tighter on the Atomic) and in the geometry of the boot cuff to sole angle. In retrospect, I think I might have preferred the Atomic geometry in bumps- clamping my oversize calves into the Rivals bends my ankles so far forward that my hips rebel. *
Other features I truly appreciate about the X8:
- Swing-away top buckle gate for ease of entry
- Flex inserts for adjustment
- Wide power strap adapted for versatile placement either over or under top buckle
Great boot to date. Not one I'm ready to marry though. 
* (This is in addition to the stance embarassment I confessed to in the Hand Position thread, not a causative factor).
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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comprex, Hehe, no, I have no trouble with my motions or towel rails and am very obsessive about my sliding opportunities 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Take what you like from this, but my wife suffered the black toe nails problem, she had been skiing for 2 seasons in Lange boots without problems, then we went on an early season course and after a few days the black toe nails appeared. Whole thing was solved by making sure that the lower of the 2 ankle clips was done up just a bit tighter thus pulling her foot further back into the heel socket
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Dypcdiver, good temporary fix. You can test for such play: extend the foot and ski straight in front of you while seated on the chairlift. Grab the ski tip and gently pull towards you. Does the foot slide within the boot?
Alas, there is only so much that can be fixed with that clip (poor, overworked exhausted thing it also has to deal with heel rise and ankle slop) before circulation is cut off to the lower foot.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Yes, yes, I never was any good at LISP either.
| does that parse better? wrote: |
You can test for such play: extend the foot (and ski) straight in front of you (while seated on the chairlift). Grab the ski tip and gently pull towards you. Does the foot slide within the boot? |
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Don't do it ! trying to grab the ski tip wilst on a lift could conciveably cause the ski to come off the foot, or cause the lift to swing with even worse consequences
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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rockyrobin, especially if it's a US chairlift without safety bars 
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