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Ski Snobbery

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Not the 'I only go to 3V or Zermatt' type ...........but ..........

As we get more experienced at skiing do we start getting a bit above ourselves because we know more about the kit, the places, the snow, the altitude, the bars, only ski resorts with reds and blacks, how to adjust your bindings, din settings, the best route from 'a to b' etc etc,.

Do we go from nice fluffy snowheads who want to learn more about our sport ..... into grumpy old skiers with a bias against anything except for skinning for three hours to hit some nice powder and turning our noses up against those with short skis, high street brands, resorts without gnarly off piste, Andorra/Bulgaria, cheap goggles, and dare I say it .... snowblades/skiboards wink
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
rayscoops, I have certainly noticed a difference with my attitude towards things. I am on my 4th season out here and have seen a lot of dangerous 'intermediates' etc... etc.. So I don't want to brand myself as a snob but I really do have genuine concern for the stereotypical holiday skier (normally from the UK) who rocks up and says things like... 'yes.. my daughter can ski that black run... she is fantastic... didn't turn at all... just skied straight down it...'

So snobbery know... moaning fuddy-duddy... yes!
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
You don't have to be experienced to know snowblades/skiboards suck
Twisted Evil
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Definitely not.

As you ski more and get a little bit better you move from an attitude of "anything will do" to become more discerning about what you want from your week on the mountain. Thus, if you are a cruiser you want lots of long reds and blues, if you are starting to venture off piste you want some easy access areas and if you get your kicks out of back country adventure then you need that. If you want to party all night it is no good going to a resort with no decent bars or pumping clubs (ie: all of France).

It is no different to learning and getting better at any other sport of issue from golf courses (being happy to play a flat field to wanting a bigger challenge or a prettier environment) to going out to restaurants (moving from a Harvester to a Michelin star establishment). The best way to get that information is from someone who has been there. The more information you have the more informed your decision can be and the more you will, hopefully, enjoy yourself.

The system relies on people being willing to share their opinions and you being able to make a judgement as to whether or not you trust their opinion based on the knowledge you have of their taste or assessment ability. Thus we might trust our friends more than an anonymous poster on snowHead but the experience of snowHead s is greater. That's why we read reviews of restaurants, golf courses, whatever, and make a judgement based on our own assessment and opinion of the reviewer.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
I hope I'm the opposite of a snob. Cheap gear, one week a year holiday skier. However, I do draw the line at rubbish accommodation. Very Happy
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I think I'll be grateful just to be able to ski again! But seriously I still want to carry on learning and I always had it in my head I would reach my skiing peak (not physically) but technically with all the experience and increased awareness that comes with that. Ok sitting this season out so we'll have to make that 41 but if I do my rehab right I will be stronger than ever. In some ways I have become more chilled about things, I understand about turning your nose up at resorts without gnar off piste but actually I think everywhere has gnar potential if you know where to look and work a bit hard to get there. The only thing that really gets on my tits is what flangesax, commented about people who think they are great and tell everyone when they are in reality sh*t. And the worst offenders are Brits (probably cos I can't speak another language). I was in La Grave a few years ago and sitting outside a bar in the sun having had a great day and was just chilling. Then a crowd turned up on some kind of BASI course, the worst was some old bag harping on about how great they were so literally everyone could hear, they got the laptop on the table and were admiring themselves coming out with all sorts of dangly bits technical speak. On the table next to me was ex world freeride Champion Hugo Harrison who had just destroyed the mountain having a quiet beer with his girlfriend and and some locals who are just on a different skiing planet compared to these muppets who were high fiving as they admired themselves side slipping down a couloir! So I don't think snobbery I'm in the moaning camp as well,
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
rayscoops, I've always assumed that much of the snobbery displayed has always been firmly tongue-in-cheek, because if it isn't then... Shocked *shudder*
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Richard_Sideways, queen bodecia, I do not really mean snobbery with respect to 'I have better kit', but more to do with 'I am a better skier and know more than you', I may be wrong but I have seen personalties on snowHead for example change over the years from 'know nothings' to 'know alls', and probably myself included in that.

Gsyfreerider, yes that is what I mean I suppose, the fact that some one has skied a bit off piste or dropped down a coulier, is now superior to 'motorway skiers' because of it

One of the greatest pleasures I have from snowboarding is seeing the joy on a learner boarder's face after they have just started linking turns or have had a first sucessful go at boarding in powder on the edge of a pise, and I feel as we progress we lose that humulity perhaps a little bit Sad
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Hmm. There is probably a bit of snobbery about the slopes I like to ski - hilarious really, since I'm so often coming across far better off-piste skiers than I. Kit? I like it to work. My Mission skis are in their 4th season - and I'm in no rush to change. I wear old Shoeffel salopettes, which were quite pricey, once, but one of admin's Keela jackets which was cheap but brilliant. For my first week's skiing I wore a pair of Marks and Spencer thermal, sympatex gloves which I bought for £15 (can't find them on their site, now, or I'd give a link) - but I wear Oakley glasses which I trust for my eyes. So costwise a real hotchpotch. Accommodation? I don't like it to be to cramped, other tan that anything between self-catering and a 3* hotel - I do feel that more pretentious hotels, apart from being goppingly expensive, would not tie in with the slightly sloppy approach I like at breakfast and in the evening.
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Gsyfreerider, nice!
rayscoops, I'm with you on the pleasures. I love all types of skiing until the holidays and then I stear well clear of the pistes if possible.
I love skiing on my own with music. When I do this I really feel like I take the mountains in. I tend to stop more often to soak it all up. I love skiing in groups that can improve you just by watching the better ones ski. But I also love helping my mates that come out to see us. There really is something great about getting someone skiing and maybe it is that joy in their eyes! Maybe cos I know I've got the whole season to ski I'm not so precious about my time and what I do with it. I have to say if I only had 1 or 2 weeks a year I doubt I'd be so keen to help beginner mates!!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
rayscoops wrote:
Do we go from nice fluffy snowheads who want to learn more about our sport ..... into grumpy old skiers with a bias against anything except for skinning for three hours to hit some nice powder and turning our noses up against those with short skis, high street brands, resorts without gnarly off piste, Andorra/Bulgaria, cheap goggles, and dare I say it .... snowblades/skiboards wink


Laughing Yes I think it can happen. Think back to our first ski holidays - a riotus mix of hangovers, fallovers and legovers. Queueing for an hour for the Ahorn Cable Car in Mayrhofen and then slipping around stupidly for a few hours before queueing for 55 minutes to get back down again, this time with bleeding feet - and it was ther BEST TIME OF OUR LIVES!!

I always try to remember the 1st Commandment of the FIS Ski Code - "Thou Shalt Have Fun" snowHead
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Ski ability snobery is rife with the Brits, however the ones that really do big it up are the Dutch! Mrs RH went out with a Dutch guy and told her that he was a brilliant skier. They went skiing and she was suprised with his ability!! wink She is a very good skier and was a very good racer, she does not tell anyone how good she was, just says something like "it was easy to win as not many women race!". Those that brag often are not the business!

I go along with the old addage "be more than you appear!"
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Back in the day, every October I'd drive 4 hours to a glacier to ski. I'd be off to the local resorts (1-2 hrs away) virtually every weekend. Haven't bovered with the glaciers for a few years now and only ski the local resorts (as opossed to tour) when there's new snow (which could be this weekend snowHead ). I enjoyed walking in the hills before I was a skier and ski touring combines the two for me.

As with life, I believe in getting the most enjoyment out of it is better than being the best. Like the challenge and feel of skiing but I'm not doing it to be better than others. Prefer to be a wolf in sheeps clothing than the other way round. Do admit it's a nice feeling to ski far better than some Austrians who only ten years ago were leaving me for dust. Was also nice to see the disbelief on the faces of a couple of Germans who thought I was a typical British toliet position skier (they tried to chat up my other half and then show up my lack of skiing ability). Now that my oldest Daughter can ski a bit (went down her first black run last friday at only six years old) I'm taking a lot of enjoyment seeing her going through the learning process. It's all good fun and not a competition.


Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much on Fri 19-02-10 10:18; edited 1 time in total
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Snobbery is not the same as perceived boasting. Some of you seem to be getting the two confused. What rayscoops is saying is that some skiers on here seem to think that unless you ski predominantly off piste, are into touring or telemark and ski on obese skis you are inherently inferior. It's a load of tosh. I know for a fact that at least a couple of the more vocal of the gnarly brigade can't even perform simple cleanly railed arc to arc turns whatever they may ski off piste.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
not at all, We still have a discovery for the luggage shipment and I still help jeeves pack the limo and put the rack on for the ski's although we have moved to a box to protect the lacroix from the salt on the roads. And when we get to klosters we always head for the bar to meet charlie and the kids for a beer although didn't see him there this year.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
slikedges, Laughing Laughing
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
slikedges wrote:
Snobbery is not the same as perceived boasting. Some of you seem to be getting the two confused. What rayscoops is saying is that some skiers on here seem to think that unless you ski predominantly off piste, are into touring or telemark and ski on obese skis you are inherently inferior. It's a load of tosh. I know for a fact that at least a couple of the more vocal of the gnarly brigade can't even perform simple cleanly railed arc to arc turns whatever they may ski off piste.


Take your point but certain skiers esp. ski instructors seem to believe you are inferior if you aren't making near perfect carves on blue runs all day. Not sure if I make your "unclean carvers gnarly brigade" feel free to confirm either way, but to be honest I just have more fun skiing offpiste and I don't ski either perfectly.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
slikedges, yep, think you hit nail on the head there.
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DB wrote:
Take your point but certain skiers esp. ski instructors seem to believe you are inferior if you aren't making near perfect carves on blue runs all day. Not sure if I make your "unclean carvers gnarly brigade" feel free to confirm either way, but to be honest I just have more fun skiing offpiste and I don't ski either perfectly.


I don't recall ever seeing a post on here by a ski instructor or anyone else intimating that, though I obviously don't read every thread. I'd agree though that if one can't actually make clean arc to arc turns given a reasonable slope and surface that one's skiing has a way to go. Of course if you can't ski ungroomed with some reasonable form your skiing has a way to go too. I'm sorry but you don't qualify for the brigade NehNeh - I don't recall having seen you ski (maybe you've posted a vid or pic?) but anyway while I do get from you that you prefer off piste, I don't get from you the feeling that you look down on piste skiers. For the record I ski both far from well but have more work to do on my off piste than my piste skiing.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
slikedges, to a certain degree yes, but also those that actually were the blue piste cruisers last year and now because they might have had a two week holiday and did a bit of off piste skiing start criticing Cervinia (for example) as 'ok if you like motorway skiing', and come over as if they are free mountain gods Laughing and again I fall in to that trap a bit probably

So I am not really on about good skiers who ski hard conditions or off piste, I am really on about those of us, our mates etc., that if you listened to them or looked at their pictures you would assume they had been dropping 60 foot cliffs and skiing stuff that no one else would touch, but in reality they are just plodders who have become a bit better and can put a decent track down in powder, but now come over al superior and look down heir noses a bit at those who do not know about the latest fat ski or buzz word.

A bit like sometimes you see people in restaurants parading around in their body armour gear (as if to say look at me I must be good if I have to wear this) but you knwo they can hardly get down a chopped up black

A bit like some one who might have been enthusing about their TKMaxx bargain last year, but this year is advising people that unless a jacket has a Gortex rating of 9000 it is not worth having Cool

A bit like the anti snowblade brigade, when I suspect there a few bladers on here who would whoop their 8rses on or off piste wink
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slikedges wrote:
I don't recall ever seeing a post on here by a ski instructor or anyone else intimating that, though I obviously don't read every thread. I'd agree though that if one can't actually make clean arc to arc turns given a reasonable slope and surface that one's skiing has a way to go. Of course if you can't ski ungroomed with some reasonable form your skiing has a way to go too.


Probably more Epicski than here but appreciate if you can't put a clean carve down on piste then difficult offpiste (e.g. breakable crust) is going to have you on your head / rear-end.

slikedges wrote:
I'm sorry but you don't qualify for the brigade NehNeh


I'm naturally gutted Sad (goes off to buy Powder Snowblades with touring bindings and body armour)

slikedges wrote:
- I don't recall having seen you ski (maybe you've posted a vid or pic?) but anyway while I do get from you that you prefer off piste, I don't get from you the feeling that you look down on piste skiers. For the record I ski both far from well but have more work to do on my off piste than my piste skiing.


I have skied with a few Snowheads (e.g. Masque) even skied with Admin once but I was knackered after a few days powder skiing with a guide (read digging myself out of powder) and Admin was fresh as a daisy. Not surprising really as he surfaced just before lunchtime to put a couple of runs in. Wink
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
DB,
Quote:
Probably more Epicski than here but appreciate if you can't put a clean carve down on piste then difficult offpiste (e.g. breakable crust) is going to have you on your head / rear-end.

Yep, also any kind of heavy snow and you'd be over...unless you skim over the surface on nice fat skis Toofy Grin
Quote:
I have skied with a few Snowheads (e.g. Masque) even skied with Admin once but I was knackered after a few days powder skiing with a guide (read digging myself out of powder) and Admin was fresh as a daisy. Not surprising really as he surfaced just before lunchtime to put a couple of runs in. Wink

Right, time for a few PMs wink

rayscoops, ok, a bit different then, sorry for thread drift.

I think there is some of that around. People who are a little better, a little more knowledgeable, identifying with or masquerading as people who are real experts. Rather merges with the who's boasting or being falsely modest, who's being truly ?unnecessarily modest, who just tells it like it is thing. I try to be measured in my posts on this sort of thing, and hope that comes across.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
slikedges, you were not off topic, just another example really Very Happy
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
There might be some snowHead s who come over as though they look down on everything but gnarly gnarly but I always get the impression - maybe wrongly - that they are not necessarily the best skiers around. In fact one of the best SH skiers (according to easiski) absolutely never comes over like that at all - quite the reverse.

There are plenty of SHs with expert knowledge about all sorts of things and I've often been grateful for their willingness to share it. Not necessarily skiing stuff, though I had an extraordinarily helpful quick post from someone who knew Val Thorens well, when I was taking my brother in law there for a day and wanted to avoid anything with "edges". That bit of advice meant we had a great day, he wasn't freaked out, etc. And on the gnarlier side, there's some incredibly good stuff available about, for example, the Vallee Blance. I think most people are able to sort the wheat from the chaff when it comes to advice.

Me, I'm an expert on beginner progression round the Espace Diamant. wink That has come in useful for some non-gnarly people. I feel that some of the detailed resort-specific advice - restaurants and accommodation, as well as pistes and lifts, is amongst the most useful SH resource. There's always someone who knows.
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
daehwons wrote:
not at all, We still have a discovery for the luggage shipment and I still help jeeves pack the limo and put the rack on for the ski's although we have moved to a box to protect the lacroix from the salt on the roads.


My Lacroix come in their own box http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.sybarites.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/img01.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.sybarites.org/2008/12/pinel-pinel-lacroix-ski-set/&h=250&w=450&sz=15&tbnid=87OwoPYdf0nLRM:&tbnh=71&tbnw=127&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dlacroix%2Bskis&hl=en&usg=__ERIlutBqxfmg8Pc5Z8d619q1m_c=&ei=q4h-S_CfD4uRjAfAybSnDQ&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=5&ct=image&ved=0CBQQ9QEwBA

Absolute bargain at £40,000 and they threw in a 3V season pass.
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Spyderman wrote:
daehwons wrote:
not at all, We still have a discovery for the luggage shipment and I still help jeeves pack the limo and put the rack on for the ski's although we have moved to a box to protect the lacroix from the salt on the roads.


My Lacroix come in their own box http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.sybarites.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/img01.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.sybarites.org/2008/12/pinel-pinel-lacroix-ski-set/&h=250&w=450&sz=15&tbnid=87OwoPYdf0nLRM:&tbnh=71&tbnw=127&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dlacroix%2Bskis&hl=en&usg=__ERIlutBqxfmg8Pc5Z8d619q1m_c=&ei=q4h-S_CfD4uRjAfAybSnDQ&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=5&ct=image&ved=0CBQQ9QEwBA

Absolute bargain at £40,000 and they threw in a 3V season pass.


Yes, they do..... of course I knew that, but silver on the box did not match the gold plated wheels of the Rolls. Surely everyone does the same. Oh and we got good use from the ski pass, skied a morning in 1850 and had champers with the russian ladies.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
i don't like the word snob, but i am extremely unsympathetic to learners (thats learners outside of greens blues and reds where they should be)/ gapers/ retards etc etc and have no problem letting people know it either...i am just back from morzine, and after skiing only cham (many times) and vail over the past 4 years, i was astonished at the retardedness on show...its just that i had forgotten how bad places like this were...i wasn't able to get my dukes mounted anywhere in morzine either (which says it all really) so it was very difficult to get myself away from the lift lines, where high gaperness was abundant...but after day 2, i had had enough and treked anywhere safe and accessable for me, my neice/ neph and oh could go...anywhere away from the beaten track, and just closed my eyes and turned the ipod up in the lift lines....




okbye


Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Fri 19-02-10 16:44; edited 1 time in total
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
I am the Nicholas Winterton of skiing..........................
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Spyderman,

They're nice, may I borrow them ?
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
is there a criticism of Cervinia? I zipped over from Zermatt last month and thought it was lovely.
ski holidays
 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
thirty06 wrote:
Spyderman,

They're nice, may I borrow them ?

I gave them to the chalet maid, you don't expect me to cart them all the way back home do you rolling eyes Besides they'll be so last year, I'll buy some new ones for next year.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Spyderman wrote:
thirty06 wrote:
Spyderman,

They're nice, may I borrow them ?

I gave them to the chalet maid, you don't expect me to cart them all the way back home do you rolling eyes Besides they'll be so last year, I'll buy some new ones for next year.


Hmmmmm, interesting....... So what do you tip the helicopter pilot with then?
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
daehwons wrote:
Spyderman wrote:
thirty06 wrote:
Spyderman,

They're nice, may I borrow them ?

I gave them to the chalet maid, you don't expect me to cart them all the way back home do you rolling eyes Besides they'll be so last year, I'll buy some new ones for next year.


Hmmmmm, interesting....... So what do you tip the helicopter pilot with then?

Nothing, he's an employee.
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Off to Courchevel tomorrow, so I think I'll just step away from this thread...
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Gadge wrote:
Off to Courchevel tomorrow, so I think I'll just step away from this thread...

May I recommend the Dom Perignon 1969, very nice with the Bacon Rolls for breakfast.
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Why all off the sudden numerous threads about the tone of posts???

I come here to gain information, whether it's about skiing technique, resort suitability or best lodging/mountain restuarant etc. If someone comes across with an attitude, I just ignore it and absorb the information.

Some resorts ARE better suited for motorway cruising. Others may have easily accessible off-piste. If I'm looking for motorway cruisers and someone "recommends" resort A with a snobbery tone, I wouldn't gotten upset about it.

But then, I don't post question about "which resort is best" without giving out information on what is it that I'm looking for. So I don't often get bombarded with "sideway recommendations" in upsetting tones like the above.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Spyderman wrote:
daehwons wrote:
Spyderman wrote:
thirty06 wrote:
Spyderman,

They're nice, may I borrow them ?

I gave them to the chalet maid, you don't expect me to cart them all the way back home do you rolling eyes Besides they'll be so last year, I'll buy some new ones for next year.


Hmmmmm, interesting....... So what do you tip the helicopter pilot with then?

Nothing, he's an employee.


Oh I see you still have a heli, let ours go last year when we took delivery of the jet, the damn thing got some cobwebs of it and looked a right mess
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
daehwons, Big mistake selling the heli. I like to have one in the UK, Gulfstream at LHR and one in GVA, doubles up for a bit of heli-skiing, one must get value out of one's assets.
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Isn't it a kind of snobbery if some people on here are talking about the state of someone else's turns?
Personally, I don't care much although I am concerned about how I am skiing on any given holiday but a specific turn is just a part of the toolbox.
But do I worry about someone else's skiing?
As long as you have enough turns to ski what you want to ski then what is the problem?
I have certainly seen very good piste skiers fall over too often in powder no matter how well they think they ski on piste
but as long as the group I am skiing with can ski what is in front of them, whatever that is, then that is good.
It would be a bit funny if you were last on the piste, but had to wait all the time when off it, though.
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
abc, absolutely agreed. Sometimes this forum can disappear right up its own fundament in an attempt to over examine its tone/purpose/funding etc etc.

rayscoops, most of the trashing of Bulgaria and Andorra seems to come from people who have been there. Yes, there are a fair number of apparently expert freeride types (definitely not me) some hardened tourers (not me) and some BASI-you-have-to-angullate-perfectly types (most definitely not me). But I see lots of us recommending gear from Lidl, Aldi and Takky Maxx, cheering when there is a new convert to sliding etc etc. And sorry - until you post a link to a video of somebody on Blades/ski-boards who does not suck (a standing challenge which none of the experts in that area have met yet) I think it is fair for people to say they suck. For everyone willy-waving about their ability, there are others being obviously too modest.

I cannot see what your point is other than to do a little light stirring. So I presume the South Wales property market is still a bit quiet and your predictions have not yet come to pass... Wink


Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads on Fri 19-02-10 16:47; edited 1 time in total
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