Why do we only go to the big French ski resorts?

A snowHead

I've been musing on some of the comments that Davidof makes about the British only going skiing in the big Domains in France. We go to smaller ski areas in other countries (e.g. Austria, Italy) but we do only seem to go to the mega domains. I've just had a quick look at the main tour operators on-line offerings and none of the big ones do any of the small resorts, it's only when you get to niche operators like Snowbizz (Puy Saint Vincent - which was great) or Erna Low and Peak Retreats (which are self drive) that you get the chance to go package to somewhere smaller. Other than on forums like this it's very difficult to find out anything about these small places because no-one British goes there so no reviews get written etc etc.

So why is this? Is it because the tour operators think that that's where we want to go, or have they lost their shirts over trying to go to small French resorts?

And finally where should we be going for small, typically French resorts?

A snowHead

Generally ........ Big domains = often purpose-built accommodation = high up = ski-in / ski-out possibilities and = relatively snow sure. I'd guess these have a lot to do with our choices of French resorts. These certainly influence me greatly. Coupled with vast scope for the better skiers/boarders. I can't be bothered with buses or crowded cable cars to get you up out of a snow-free town to the slopes.

For the T.O.s, economy of scale must have a lot to do with it. One senior rep and a couple of juniors for transfers is about the minimum they need for any size of operation but if they can cover several hotels, chalets and s/c apartments in a big resort and use full 50 seater coaches for the transfers they obviously make more from the same staffing level.

Long time since I've been there, but Ski Peak to Vaujany gives you the small village atmosphere but links easily into Alpe d'Huez by a huge cable car across the valley. Best of both worlds. Short transfers from Geneva too.

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Chris, when you find out the answer please let me know, because I can't work it out. Our guests invariably say why haven't we been here before? I know that in our resort; prices are lower, the lift pass is cheaper, we have one of the best and most consistent snow records in the Alps, sunny south facing slopes, stupendous views, friendly locals and 150 kms of pistes and 3,000 hecatres of skiable domain with some amazing off-piste, not forgetting heli skiing. Invariable reaction of most people I speak to is that La Rosiere is too small, funny that when we have a bigger piste mileage than Chamonix. As far as finding small ski villages, I'd look for places that link into larger domains, so Vaujany, Samoens, La Tania would all be on my list not forgetting places like La Deux Alpes, Serre Chevalier etc but my top of the list is La Rosiere but then I'm biased.

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I've skied many places (but not La Rosiere), I started off choosing high(er) resorts or ones with good snow.

As I improved I then choose resorts with lots of runs, and interconnected (not via buses like Cham!). At this stage I got a last minute holiday to Andorra, we found we could ski every blue+ run in one day, so "needed" bigger resorts.

As I've got better still and into off piste I'm now going back to smaller resorts so they don't get tracked out as much!

All times I try to avoid buses, ski in ski out allows the missus or me to go back early to play/ski/sledge with the kids.

How's La Rosiere for off piste? I know it's meant to be great for kids, which is a big + at the moment Very Happy

FWIW a list of where/when I've been is here:

http://www.gregh.co.uk/html/skiweek.htm

cheers,

greg

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Small resorts, from my experience in the Haute Maurienne, are less crowded and cheaper and the off piste hardly gets skied so you can make first tracks for weeks after the last snow (except la Grave, of course). Usually great for beginners too. Good skiers it helps to have a car (and a guide).

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One obvious reason is that if you're in a mixed ability party, a very large resort is likely to have enough to keep everyone happy for a week or two.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

I think that we may well view the bigger resorts as being less of a risk.

Most Brits, that ski, ski one week a year so they want to know they'll find a resort with snow and plenty of runs to do so they can explore. If the snow is poor then that years (not weeks) skiing is ruined. They don't want to do the same runs too often, as they're not really trying to improve technique but like the feeling of having covered a lot of ground.

They don't do much research on resorts and so brochure descriptions become the "Bible" and once flight and transfer costs are factored in the price difference between bigger and smaller resorts reduces as a % of total cost.

They do also look for a resort as close to the slopes as they can, as they want to get onto the slopes as soon as they're ready without having to drive or bus to the lifts and when kids come too the ski in/out becomes a priority too.

Certainly the above seems to be true for the group trip I'll be on next year. The a couple of the wifes seem adamant about their requirements, without basing them on any experiance of trying an alternative.

After all it is free

I should have made clear with Haute Maurienne area that the car was so good skiers could try several of the resorts in the valley, not because the lifts are far from the hotels (that is a characteristic of many hotels in large resorts, not small ones).

I make a point of never going to large French resorts.

Valmorel was nice.

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My opinion is that the French is more organised in linking the resorts together.

Let just look at Les Arcs. You can book with Arc 1600 Arc 1800, Vallandry, Pan Peisey, Arc 2000 or Villaroger but you may tell your friends that you are going to Paradiski.

The skiers who booked with La Tania would be pround of being able to ski around the 600km in 3V.

There is nothing wrong with the French mega resorts because you can always stick with a small area of your choice and don't want to venture out. However more skiers know about Chamonix than Grands Montet, Porte Du Soleil than Morgins, Montchavin than La Plagnes, St Matin de Belleville than 3V......

I think it is to do with the name we use to refer to the resort we have booked the accommodation. In Austria we have the opposite as people claim to ski in Soll, Ellmau, Westendorf, Scheffau, Brixen...... instead of just saying Ski Welt.

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We are thinking of trying Val Cenis after seeing the rep at the ski show last year. Any recommendations?

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I have just spent a great day in Notre Dame de Bellecombe. Bright sun, super snow, open right down into the Arly Valley and the longest lift queue a minute or so. Had one hugely wide red piste all to myself, all the way down. NDdB will be linked by lift next year to Les Saisies and Crest Voland, and is also already linked to Praz sur Arly. Megeve is just a hop along the road, and La Clusaz a very easy day away. It is worth thinking about travelling by car to different areas during a week's ski holiday. If you avoid the French school holiday weeks (and you'd be mad not to) access to the lifts is hassle free. There are plenty of small hotels where you could negotiate mid-week to mid-week stays, out of the high season, and either drive down on quiet roads, or fly very cheaply to Geneva. Just dump those big TOs.

Charlatanefc, Val Cenis is a good bet for a small resort, but also look at the other resorts in the valley:
Bonneval,La Norma,Val Frejus,Aussois, all good for a day-2 days skiing. Link them together, and you will have a good mix of skiing for a week, not forgetting you can get the gondola from Orelle, and ski into Val Thorens.(It is possible to ski Orelle-Courcheval-Orelle in the day)

You know it makes sense.

srobbo,

That's very ingenious. Pick a few small resorts, all good for a day-2 days skiing. Link them together, and you will have a good mix of skiing for a week.

All these just to avoid the big resorts because they are already linked up for you?

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

I'd rather have a lift built because it's accessing good terrain than because it bridges a gap between two stations.

A snowHead

saikee, Yes, saves on the hassle of having to queue at the big resorts, ok you have a little bit more organising to sort out (re Lift passes etc), but with the small resorts, usually a lot quiter piste's, the off-piste stays untracked for longer, and a bit more character to the area's.
If you need to you can then pick a 'larger' resort for a day or so if needed
Don't get me wrong, I enjoy skiing the big resorts, but find that after a couple of days (queing/busy pistes/no off-piste) can't wait to get back to a small resort !

A snowHead

If I were a British TO looking to make a steady income out of selling holidays to British people I'd be looking for the following:

1) Snowsure (if not snow"sure", then at least as good as it gets) so I can make as much money out of the season as possible.
2) A large accomodation market where I can play hoteliers off against each other and get a good deal. Ditto resort shops (ski school, ski hire).
3) Slope-side accomodation so I don't have to spend money getting my clients to the slopes every day
4) Large ski area that would keep the standard British skiier happy all week (with a reasonable degree of apres ski too) - thus I won't have to spend money getting my clients to different slopes every day, and my clients won't feel reliant on me every day to get them to new pistes.
5) Near a cheap airport.

Large domains (particularly French ones) pretty much fit the bill, really. Until the British stop using TOs, the TOs will continue flogging holidays in large domains.

Incidentally I recently travelled with Snowcoach, who DO bus their clients to a different small Mt Blanc resort every day, but they cut their costs by transporting clients to France by coach (and their accomodation range isn't opulent).

Personally I couldn't care less whether I stay in the 3V, or a tiny resort in back of Mt Blanc. Mega resorts always contain cute villages, while the quality of pistes in small resorts is normally not dis-similar to that in a mega resort (albeit a smaller ski area). Every resort has at least one decent drinking hole, restaurant, skihire shop and a lift office. Personally, what I care about is having enough snow to keep me interested during the length of my holiday, and a reliable way of accessing that snow which doesn't involve too much hassle on my part. At present large domains fit the bill, but if a TO is willing to offer me accomodation in the middle of nowhere and transport me daily to small resorts then I'm up for that! Incidentally if anyone has a chalet in a tiny unknown village and feels like chauffering me to and from various local slopes for a week, I'm up for that too...... wink

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Oops...got a bit carried away there. Embarassed

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Manda, one of the packages we offer is Ski Randonee, where you can ski a different resort in the Tarentaise every day. Booking is easy just check our website for availability and send an email confirming your choice. Looking forward to hearing from you.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Manda, I'd think you're about right there. But you're probably missing the main point, the more clients the operator can get into the same centre the more cost savings they can make and the more pressure they place on the providers as you hint at to an extent.

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Personally I'm glad the big TO's stay out of the smaller resorts like ours at Puy St Vincent....outside of February no queing for lifts and more untracked off-piste for us!!!

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

petel,

Unfortunately many UK skiers don't only look at the length of the queues and the off piste condition when booking. Also to many new skiers there is a stronger desire to see the big resorts than the little ones. Queues and snow condition in large resorts can be just as good as the small resorts if you can avoid the peak seasons. Your statement with qualification of "outside of February" would tell us in peak time everywhere in France is bad, regardless of the resort size.

I am actually an ardent supporter of the big resorts but on a like to like basis a big resort does have many advantages. Among them are

Higher altitudes often beyond 3000m and some permit summer skiing too
Massive number of chairlifts to choose from
More choices of restaurants
More choices of location to stay to suit one's ability
Better and more snow making equipment
More choices on pistes - this is particularly good for progressing skiers to pick runs just right for the next advancement
Better scope for apres activities

Snowheads are doing a end of season bash in Les Arcs. The place is expected to be deserted by then but a decent amount of snow is likely to remain. If the venue were to alter to ALPES DU SUD area the only choice would be Serre Chevalier which is scheduled to close on 1 May.

After all it is free

ise,

My reply was to Petel and comparing mainly French resorts. 3V, Paradiski and Tignes/Val D are the large resorts I got in mind. The so called 600km Portes Du Soleil isn't a big resort because the areas aren't fully linked.

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Each to their own Saikee. All your points are valid, but they are not necessarliy the things that everybody wants.

Some people like to be in quiet villages...and strange as it may seem some people actually don't like too many choices over restaurants, pistes, night life etc. It's a lifestyle thing I suppose. From the people i've seen you could say that it was maybe an age thing, but that is botton holing people.

Plenty of brits come back to PSV year after year. I met a guy on the lift the other day who was on his ninth consecutive year here and he doesn't have his own property here so there must be something he likes about it.

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It is probably a good thing we don't all seek the same features in a resort otherwise we would all end up in the same place rolling eyes

My own thoughts are that most of the large resorts are usually purpose built this provides advantages and disadvantages. For me the main advantage is that they are usually sited somewhere with decent terrain and a reasonable snow record. However they are also usually more expensive, more crowded and actually have a narrower choice of often cramped accomodation.

I have tended to go to more 'traditional' resorts over the years. In specific answer to the question of Chris Reed

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Why do we only go to the big French ski resorts?

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