 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Alan Craggs," but then they don't have wood inside so they must be carp"
The new core material for the millenium ! 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Non-wood cores also ......
1) are more likely to be killed with a core-shot (a hole that goes through the base of the ski normally caused by a rock). Wood will dry out foam breaks down when wet.
2) generally have a shorter life. (i.e. lose their camber / life)
3) Bend out of shape much more easily.
but they do tend to be lighter and softer so may be a better ski for the less "big boned".
Skis like the Pocket Rocket and 1080 are great skis for getting started in the powder though.
As a general rule I will rent a non-wood core (but throw it back if the life has been thrashed out of it) and tend to buy wood core skis.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Wed 9-03-05 13:15; edited 2 times in total
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I have some X-Mountain Tours, which have a non-wood core. They're fine, really, to ski on.
It's just when I get on a wooden ski, it feels so much better !
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| ise wrote: |
| We'll mostly be stocking the Daily Mail of course. |
I'm busy taking deep breaths and counting to 10.
| DB wrote: |
| Skis like the Pocket Rocket and 1080 are great skis for getting started in the powder though. |
Thanks DB, useful info. Skiing powder is probably the strongest element of my skiing so I'm not looking for something to help me too much in that area. I'm assuming that any mid-fat will be OK at least - certainly 'better' than the equipment I was using 10/15 years ago.
Re: wooden cores. Well, I like looking at the wood throught the translucent exterior on my K2s - this is about as technical as I get. I think I might get kicked out of the rental shop if I start asking what the core is made of  . They're probably going to assume I'm crap (or a carp) anyway because I'm British.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| ise wrote: |
You've got to accept that most manufacturers use composites for one reason only and that's to reduce manufacturing cost. |
I think this is bringing a bit of confusion to the term composite. All skis are a composite construction. The only ski's you'll find that aren't are hanging on a reataurant wall, solid wood and no metal edges.
Foam as core material is not a composite in itself, being a single component material. Add some glass, carbon or aramid fibre and a dose of resin and you have a composite ski. Exactly the same holds for wood as a core material although wood itself can be regarded as a natural composite of cellulose fibres a binder .
Foam cores have a reputation for breaking down with age causing the ski to lose some of its natural spring, wood suffers from this a lot less.
How good are the latest foam cores? Is the reputation still valid is the real question.
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| rich wrote: |
| How good are the latest foam cores? Is the reputation still valid is the real question. |
Let's see:
1. Salomon use foam cores in most (all?) of their skis
2. Most Salomon skis are crap. (By "crap" I mean they make bad skiers think they are better skiers, and good skier die of boredom waiting for a bit of response)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Alan Craggs, one does one's best to maintain a modicum of decorum.
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Wear The Fox Hat, so why are they so expensive?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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hayley t, because if they were cheap, then they would be Ratner Skis. But by keeping the price a bit higher, people think they are getting a better ski.
...and a lot of people REALLY like them, but much of that has to do with my second point above. If it makes you think you are a better skier than you really are, then you'll want to ski it.
I remember skiing on a pair of Crossmax 10s (I think) in Snowbird a couple of years back. I just did one or two runs on them. I could lean forward, or lean back, and the skis just kept going fine. They didn't challenge me to have a good stance. But then, if I wanted to open them up, and go for a bit of higher speed fun, there was nothing there. No response.
Compare that to my current skis. If I get at all in the backseat, they throw me. But, when I'm in the right place, I can work the skis, and they rip.
I guess you could liken it to Americans and cars. Many American cars have softer suspension than we would have. They are designed for comfort. But when you start turning, the car is all over the road. A European car will have stiffer suspension, which means it holds the road better when turning and at higher speeds, but when you go over bumps, you feel them more.
If you just want a comfortable cruise, go Salomon. If you want performance and fun, then maybe look elsewhere.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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alan empty, my favourite skis so far have been Fischer RX4 and RX6 (I'm not as experienced or tall as you, so the 8s would have been too much for me). I'd go for Fischer but then I'm biased as I experienced my first proper carved turns in them!
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You know it makes sense.
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ise, I have the Tyrolia FFP14 on my Heads. Very nice binding.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Blimey, I didn't realise there was such an anti Salomon camp on here. I do remember similiar horror stories around wood cores warping not so long ago.....
This thread highlights the reason why demoing skis is good, one person's favourite ski may be hated by the next person.
Personally I have cranked my 1080s a fair bit on wide open pistes, with plenty of room, and never had a problem carving them a highish speeds, granted they were nothing like as fast as a GS ski I've tested, but then I wouldn't take that GS ski off piste !
regards,
greg
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Poster: A snowHead
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Wear The Fox Hat, see above! It was the first time both myself and Mr T (Crossmax) had used Salomon and while they made skiing steeper runs easier, we both preferred the Fischer's of the previous years. You're right about the speed issue, the Atomic skis tore down the less steep runs and seemed precise but the Salomon's were not so good and I didn't feel as safe at speed. I definitely noticed the difference there. On the steeper runs, the Salomons were easier to turn and I tend not to go fast anyway when steep so the grip etc. at higher speeds wasn't as issue there. I fell over twice on the Atomics (in 3 days!) but not at all on the Salomons so maybe the answer is there. The shop didn't have any Fischer skis left this time. Next year I intend to get an earlier flight!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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same binding I think, the plus 15 just has a higher din range.
I'm going to have to move these skis, it's putting me off, I'll have to go ski them tomorrow.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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ise, I don't buy! At the rate I go through skis, I'd be buying my 5th pair in 3 years which I definitely can't afford! That equates to several holidays 
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hayley t, that's pretty incredible, how much do you ski? I'm only on my second pair of the season.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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hayley t, actually, I suppose a better question might be, what are doing to them?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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ise, I'm just fickle, I don't wreck them! I like variety
Seriously, if I found a good all round ski I'd buy them but I have to persuade Mr T first that it's a good idea.
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hayley t, is it even just a case of finding a good ski though? Understanding what I even like about a ski has taken me years before trying to actually find a ski I like. You can do season rental over here which is pretty good for a lot of people.
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gregh,
Agree, A good friend of mine went on last years Fall line test and acknowledged that K2 were making a great batch of skis and he still replaced his old X screams with new ones. I don't know how they compare with each other but I know what he can ski and he doesn't do half bad on them. He is pretty hard to follow down the mountain on them, I know that..!!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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ise,
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Understanding what I even like about a ski ....
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I'm still undertaking that process, so it will be a while.
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OK, thanks again everyone. I thought I'd summarise my thoughts and see what you think.
Here's my list:
Atomic M:b5 (172)
Dynastar Legend 8000s (172)
Fischer RX8 (170)
Head iXRC 1100 SWs (170)
Head iM75 (170)
K2 Apache Recon (167 or 174)
Rossignol B2 (170 or 176)
Volkl 724 EXP (170)
ise, I'd like to add some Stöckli skis. What do you think - Stormrider XL or AT maybe?
marc gledhill has recommended going short - I'm guessing a size smaller than the sizes above. Anyone else have any thoughts on that? As you can see from my 1st post I've been skiing for a few years on 181 K2 Axis Mod X Pros so I'm thinking initially that I wouldn't drop too much.
I might try some 1080s (if they have any) at the end of the week just to see how they compare.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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alan, When you opened the topic, you mentioned you were looking at 170-175. I'd guess something one size down, say 165-170, so some of the sizes listed will probably be fine.
I've gone down the same road, from 200 to 184 to 176 over the last five years or so and I'm 5'11" and 180/185 lbs.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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alan empty,
Looks a very nice lot of work you have there. And I would agree with most. Not sure that the 1100 is an off-piste type ski, thought it was a piste blaster. Try the iM75 in 178 if you are over 6ft and 13 st and the B2 in 176 both very good in deep snow and turney enough on piste.
Like the sound on the Volkl, Dynastar 8000, K2 and b5 for skiing mostly off the backside. I am hoping I will get on at least one of them this weekend in Engelberg
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alan empty,
Forgot to say the Ssh likes loves the b5 in 162...!!
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You know it makes sense.
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| alan empty wrote: |
OK, thanks again everyone. I thought I'd summarise my thoughts and see what you think.
Here's my list:
Atomic M:b5 (172)
Dynastar Legend 8000s (172)
Fischer RX8 (170)
Head iXRC 1100 SWs (170)
Head iM75 (170)
K2 Apache Recon (167 or 174)
Rossignol B2 (170 or 176)
Volkl 724 EXP (170)
ise, I'd like to add some Stöckli skis. What do you think - Stormrider XL or AT maybe?
marc gledhill has recommended going short - I'm guessing a size smaller than the sizes above. Anyone else have any thoughts on that? As you can see from my 1st post I've been skiing for a few years on 181 K2 Axis Mod X Pros so I'm thinking initially that I wouldn't drop too much.
I might try some 1080s (if they have any) at the end of the week just to see how they compare. |
If you are happy with your Mod X Pros then I reckon the K2 Apache Recon (in a 174) should be top of your list, but do try a few on that list. If you try the 1080's be sure to give em some speed on a hard piste.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| JT wrote: |
alan empty,
Like the sound on the Volkl, Dynastar 8000, K2 and b5 for skiing mostly off the backside. |
I generally find they work better using my feet...but whatever works for you! 
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Poster: A snowHead
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GrahamN,
And that happens a lot...LOL!!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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that looks like a great list, I'd really be interested in how you get on with them, esp if you try the 1080 as well
Whatever you go with it'll be fun trying!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Thanks everyone. I'll probably not find any of them in Verbier and be forced to choose between skis that I've never heard of! I'm hopeful that I can find a few - I'm assuming the B2s will be relatively easy to find at least.
I'll let you know how I get on.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| alan empty wrote: |
ise, I'd like to add some Stöckli skis. What do you think - Stormrider XL or AT maybe?
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The XL is a fine ski, I tested some at the weekend (a real test, they gave me the skis and I didn't give them money). But, if you get to try Stöckli then try the Laser SC as well. It's an extraordinary ski, it's a hybrid slalom/gs race ski, on piste performance is just incredible, it handles just fine in powder as well. The SC have more grip than a bucket of glue and a totally smooth repsonse curve at any speed.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Thanks ise. I've added...
Stöckli Stormrider XL (174)
Stöckli Laser SC (168)
A free test? Wow, that must be nice.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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alan empty, proper tests are free. If you're paying then you're just renting. (also, if you're really testing, they'll give you a card or questionnaire to fill out for each ski you test)
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free tests are normally just for a few hours as well. (well the ones I've tried in Europe are)
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gregh, true. If you can get in 3 or 4 runs per ski, that's about all you'll get (but should also be all you'll need for an initial opinion)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| alan empty wrote: |
Thanks ise. I've added...
Stöckli Stormrider XL (174)
Stöckli Laser SC (168)
A free test? Wow, that must be nice. |
When you buy you also get 2 yrs insurance on damage, 1 yr on theft, several coffees, 4chf for ever 10km you came from home up to some max of course, three services and an age flexing 40 odd pairs of skis to find the flex you want (as hand made they differ). Totally Swiss .....
Tests are for weekends when Stöckli set them up as well.
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ise, Stöckli Laser SC, oooh what fun! Not sure that ski belongs in the same group with a B2; the tenacious edge hold, deep smooth rebound, and silky poured-chocolate-smooth speed of it make me think of a Brazilian dancer next to a housewife on a Schlag-torte diet. I had to take the first 2 full days to appreciate how impossible it was for me to destroy the SC with stomping gorilla turns, and the next three to develop the light feet it demands among trees.
Sadly, couldn't keep them. 
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FAQ
