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Valmeinier 1800 with Snowcoach

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Just back from my trip to Valmeinier and thought I'd give you all the low-down. I've used bullet-points in an effort to prevent me rambling on and on and on an...

Travel:

Coach departed South Mimms (A1/M25) 3.45pm Firday, reached Dover by 6pm. Ferry delays (well-known and long-standing berthing problems) prevented us boarding immediately but once onboard, managed to get dinner before the queues got too long. Hit the road at midnight (11pm GMT), stopping at 4am and 8am before arriving in resort at 12 noon. Not much sleep on the coach but adrenaline was flowing so who cares??

Arrival

Hotel staff were lovely - many with bad hair and jeans worn very low on the hips but they were well-organised and helpful. Free hot drinks available immediately on arrival. I hadn't pre-booked anything but I collected my lift-pass from reception, my skis & boots from the in-house 'hire shop' (gear was tatty but serviceable and good enough for an inexperienced skiier like me). Wandered down to the liftpass kiosk to buy my carre neige, dragged my case to my room (the lift was very busy!), changed and was on the slopes by 2pm.

Hotel

Hotel l'Aigle is owned and run by Snowcoach with entirely British staff. It's very friendly - the guests as well as the staff - and comfortable. It's no luxury palace but it only claims to be 2*, even though there's a free outdoor hot-tub and (indoor) steamroom. Rooms are clean, tidy & comfy. A big fire heats the lounge and free hot drinks and cakes are available late afternoon. Apart from a veggie alternative, dinner is whatever's on the blackboard - no choices but no complaints about the quality or quantity of grub on offer. I guess fussy eaters might have a bit of a problem but that's the same wherever you go.

A couple of the staff (whose 'real' job is looking after the boots / skis) have the onerous task of leading a group from the hotel each day for a bit of an explore. I tagged along on a couple of occasions and found I was (just about) good enough to keep up - it's a mixed-ability group and they wait for the stragglers. rolling eyes Without them, I doubt I would have ventured over the other side of the valley and discovered the 2-man drag lift which I fell off on one occasion! Shocked

Terrain

This was only my 3rd week as a skiier so my views aren't all that objective (not much to compare with as yet!).

There hadn't been much snow for a while before I arrived so the pistes were generally hard and fast... Skullie

Last year I skiied Arc 2000, which was desribed in another thread as being ideal for beginners so it could be that Valmeinier's pistes are 'normal' and Arc's are very easy (ie perhaps the blues in Arc should be graded green, etc..?). Notwithstanding that, my overall feelings are that the skiing in Valmeinier is more difficult than the piste-map suggests - the 'green' run home is wide but steep at the bottom and much of it was very icy - not what you would prescribe for beginners! There are lots of 'green' trails on the map but many of them are narrow tracks with steep drops to the side and icy descents - scary! One day, I was presented with a 100-yard deep mogul-field the whole width of a blue piste Shocked Interesting if you haven't a clue what to do in the bumps! Embarassed

It snowed a bit on Wednesday and lots on Thursday night - and they bashed many of the pistes overnight as well - so Friday was fantastic fun. By far my best day's skiing so far. I guess being a better skiier after 3 weeks than I was after 2 helped.

Ski Skool

ESF are the only show in town but the instructor spoke good Anglais so no probs there. He didn't actually teach much technique - it wasn't quite "bend ze knees & follow me" but it was generally, "watch what I do and copy me" style of instruction. His one consistent message was "push the hands forward", which was useful. I feel I made progress but maybe not as much as I should have. Perhaps I'm not a good student. Puzzled

Departure

Had to vacate the room by 9am on Saturday (those flying to LGW were on a coach at 6.30am, poor souls) so dumped my case in the storage area and headed for the lifts as usual. Skiied in perfect conditions (sun, newly-bashed pistes, lots of snow and no people, it being transfer day) till about 3pm when the cloud descended. Back to the hotel for a shower (someone's going to sit next to me on the coach for much of the next 24 hours), change and await our coach.

Due to horrendous delays - like 14 hours - on the ferry, the incoming coaches aren't in resort as expected so at 7.30pm we're put on a hired local coach to Lyons where we'll meet up with the resort-bound coaches. A bit of a cock-up with the Val Cenis coach leaves us standing in the snow at a service-station outside Lyons for 2 hours which is a bit of a downer but worse things happen at sea! Finally set off from Lyons after midnight, arriving at Calais at 10am Sunday.
Wander through passport control and join the queue for the ferry - the rep / driver tells us we're on the 10.30 sailing but it's not going anywhere till at least 1pm!! At 12 noon, he announces "they're putting us through the Tunnel" - he later says the drivers were so short of time that they were going to have to take a mandatory 6-hour break in Calais if we waited for the ferry, so someone made an executive decision, coughed up the extra cash and got us home via the tunnel. Excellent.

After picking up fresh drivers at dover and swapping coaches, we finally arrived 'home' at 3pm - 3 hours late! Given the possible ferry delays, I say "Well done, Snowcoach".

Overall...

20 hours travelling is a long time but so is 7 days on the snow!
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Great info. !

Was wondering if you ventured towards the boardercross at any stage? Or if you ventured off-piste?

Any info on the above would be very gratefully received!
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Great that you had such a fab time, Red Leon snowHead
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magicrichard,

I rode a chair over the snowpark (jumps, rails, etc) on the Valloire side of the ridge but there weren't many people using it - and I don't feel qualified to comment on it other than to say 'it was there'. Is that the 'boardercross' or is there a separate place I didn't see? We never made it all the way down to Valloire so there's plenty I didn't see.

Our ESF instructor thoroughly enjoyed taking us off-piste for a couple of lessons but I have to say it was too difficult for me to take seriously. The first time we tried, I fell over a lot - which is not what I'm trying to learn! The second time, it was our final lesson (end-of-term stylee) and we were just mucking about, which I have to admit I quite enjoyed - despite spending half the afternoon rolling around in the waist-deep powder. Embarassed

Others at the hotel (those for whom on-piste is too easy, presumably!) spent a lot of time off-piste and were very enthusiastic about the conditions towards the end of the week.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Red Leon wrote:
There are lots of 'green' trails on the map but many of them are narrow tracks with steep drops to the side and icy descents - scary! !


It's always struck me as odd that roads are almost always in the easiest classification. They are rarely steep, but they're narrow (if you're a beginner), often icy and if you're still at the snowplough stage, very hard work. Add to that a steep drop off and a few 'experts' belting down at high speed and they're good places for beginners to avoid. I used to hate them.

Good report, BTW.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
richmond, I so agree! I still find narrow scarier than steep. I'm at the nervous parallel stage and recognise your description!
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Red Leon, good to see that you enjoyed Val M, thought the terrain might suit a good beginner/intermediate !

Maybe catch up on a snowcoah trip sometime
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
richmond, Yes i agree as well. Although a good skier, those narrow green routes can get really crowded and tricky going home. Esepcially when they run in and around a red or blue run (as happens lots in Serre Che) - they become even more crowded as people steer of the incredibly icy red run. As a good skier, you have to constantly strike up a balance between keeping your speed up, but still being able to stop should a whole ski school decided to crash across the route in front of you. One thing you can do is cut all the corners - although you have to be a bit careful when re-emerging on the lower spine!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Red Leon, great to see you had a good time snowHead

The ferry problems are beyond Snowcoach's control, and it was good of Snowcoach to put your return coach thur Eurotunnel rather than make you hang round like we had to for 4 hours for the next ferry slot.

From all acounts (yours and other people I met who've stayed with Snowcoach at ValM), Snowcoach's hotel at ValM hasn't had the same problems encountered at their one in St G. Certainly food and facilities are exactly what you expect for 2* hotels, unfortunately during my stay at St G everyone was complaining about the over-cooked meat!!

Good to see you got some time in with the ski-explorers - I thoroughly enjoyed it (even despite the fact that our explorer managed to lose 5 of us on-piste, in broad daylight, for an entire afternoon Shocked ). Good luck with the off-piste stuff, keep it up. Don't worry if it all seems like hard work - it is! I'm not yet particularly proficent in the deep stuff either, spend more time faceplanting it than actually skiing it rolling eyes
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Manda wrote:

The ferry problems are beyond Snowcoach's control, and it was good of Snowcoach to put your return coach thur Eurotunnel rather than make you hang round like we had to for 4 hours for the next ferry slot.


I think there's really rather too much of that goes on, it's a well known problem they did nothing about, if they'd used the tunnel to start with it wouldn't have happened. The reason they didn't of course was it's cheaper not to deal with the rip-off prices on the tunnel. There's a good logical reason why the end provider is legally responsible for all the services in the value chain and mug punters shouldn't fall for this guff about it being beyond their control.
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Hmmm - ise, now that you mention it.....

I only made that comment bearing in mind the copious other problems I'd had with Snowcoach, which clearly WERE within their control. It did occur to me (I had a lot of time to think while waiting 4hrs on the windswept docks at Calais) that Snowcoach could've tried putting us thru the tunnel. But chances are that at that point Snowcoach didn't have a) managerial desire to do so, and/or b) the ability fund it.

Mind you, and not that I'm saying Snowcoach couldn't have tried harder on this point, but our return journey was only a day or so after the berthing problem occured. I'd be surprised if the true position with regards to the berth had been communicated to TOs who regularly use ferries, in order that TOs could have made alternative arrangements.

[P.S Red Leon's post clearly indicates Snowcoach was perfectly fine at giving him a decent holiday, so don't let me rave on here about my problems with them!]
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Eurotunnel have a very strange pricing structure at the moment when it comes to freight with operators having to pre declare volumes of traffic. Needless to say there numbers have dropped like a stone. I wouldnt dream of using the tunnel for freight.

companies tend to book with one ferry firm ensuring excellent rates. Not wishing to speculate but a one off trip on the tunnel may have cost Snowcoach nearly a grand. as opposed to £150 on a ferry.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Just to conclude this little tale, I've had a letter from Snowcoach MD explaining their difficulties on the weekend of 5th & 6th March, their steps to remedy them and the arrangements they've made to avoid them re-occurring. Letter is here (assuming my link works, of course!

Whilst I agree that the people who left the UK on Friday 4th March suffered unacceptable delays (some 14 hours all told), I think it's fair to say that Snowcoach did everything they could, given the info available at the time, to sort the situation out and I for one have no complaints.

Next task is to get my film processed (I always take a throw-away camera as I'm so clumsy!) Embarassed . If the pics are any good (doubtful), I'll see if I can put them on the snowMediaZone Puzzled
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Red Leon, I'm jealous. I didn't get a nice letter about the ferry delays. Or even a response to my letter of complaint. Sad Guess who I won't be recommending in future....
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Manda,

The link in my last posting doesn't work as you need to be a registered user of the snowmediazone. The letter is in my personal gallery if you're a user and you want to see it.

It's hard to understand how one TO can be so 'on-the-ball' when it comes to apologising & explaining problems one week and so apparently dismissive of other equally serious problems another week. Given that the problems my group encountered didn't impact on the holiday at all - we were waiting for a bus for 2 hours at Lyon on the way back and were a whole (!) 3 hours late getting home - and your group's entire week was blighted, I think they should be taking your complaint very seriously indeed. Perhaps someone there is a snowHead and will let the bosses in on the discussion (and the damage it could do to their reputation) rolling eyes
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
John, I'm from Letchworth.......just noticed that!
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
sallyanne,

Small World!!

I live in the mighty metropolis of Biggleswade (moved from Letchworth in 1988) but I work in Letchworth. My parents live on the Grange (but they're nice people...no, really!)

There's a snowHead in Hitchin - Chris Reed, I think.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Actually I now live in London but was brought up in Letchworth and my parents still live there so visit often, well, a breakaway group - Herfordshire Snowheads!!!! Sorry folks, not about Snowcoach is it, although they did used to be based in St Albans!
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 You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Red Leon, I managed to get onto register for snowmediazone - saw the letter.

Thanks for your sympathy - I'm also at a loss as to Snowcoach's attitude to me and people on my holiday. Sadly Snowcoach just keep reinforcing my experience of them as a particularly unprofessional bunch. Which is a pity as clearly other people have had a perfectly fine time with them.

I unfortunately simply won't be recommending them, and I would actively dissuade anyone contemplating going to St Gervais with them. I daren't chase up my letter - can't be doing with their "pass the buck" attitude (I'm refering to their opinion in their letter to you that P&O should've opened up another route - I was appalled that the Snowcoach manager had the audacity to make such comments, to his own customers, about another service provider - it's not only tacky, it's just plain unprofessional).
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Manda, It could be that Snowcoach only reply to customers who have not got a valid claim for compensation. In my experience if you persevere and gradually up the pressure then you will get a result. They are ABTA regulated and have 28 days to respond to each letter. If you get stuck then threaten to go to ABTA here is the link http://www.abta.com/benefits.html#complain
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Manda,

I don't blame you for saying you would discourage anyone thinking of using Snowcoach. If my experience matched yours, that would be my attitude as well.

Assuming we take the contents of their letter at face value, it would appear they had an agreement with P&O which wasn't honoured. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask why the ferry operator didn't take certain steps to alleviate the problems they were experiencing - after all, Snowcoach passengers' problems are also P&O passengers' problems. I'm all for open discussion - perhaps P&O might care to explain their position on the matter... Twisted Evil

Anyway, good luck with your dispute. Let us know how you get on - if Snowcoach continue to be difficult and you fail to gain a satisfactory result, it might be help other snowHead 's thinking of travelling with them to make an informed choice. Shocked
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Red Leon, it was paragraph 4 of their letter to you that got up my nose - It's one thing to explain to customers P&O's actual involvement in the delays. And sure, Snowcoach can talk directly with P&O about what P&O "should" have done. But as a trader, you don't sound off to your customers about what another supplier in the chain "should" have done. This is what I mean about Snowcoach - they get really close to providing nice good service, and then they do something really unprofessional like this to bollox the whole experience. I've never seen a company quite so ready to shoot it's own foot.

Anyway.

Frosty the Snowman, yeah, I wasn't asking Snowcoach for compo - I was giving an extended customer report (they were REALLY keen to get guests to fill in their standard customer feedback report, but I found the format wasn't ....er... extensive enough for the feedback wot needed saying). Even still, normal companies would at least acknowledge receipt of any customer letter and say something placating like "sorry you didn't enjoy your stay although millions of our customers have never had a bad time on our previous trips....." type of thing. But not a word from Snowcoach.

Snowcoach don't do refunds for travel delays - their T&Cs preclude it, you're supposed to accept that traffic delays are a natural part of road transport.
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