 Poster: A snowHead
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bertie bassett,
yes you probably right, but when we books with plc and Ltd companies for our holidays we dont do it on a share and share alike basis - we are offered a price for something.
yes i know teher is always small print. And i know that even if i walk into Sainsburys and pick up a box of cereals advertised at £1.50 they don;t actually have to sell it to me ; but where will Siansburys be if they did that to regualr customers who generally say good thing sabout their service.
This case is one of seriously poor customer care, at a time when customer care really counts.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| snowymum wrote: |
Bertie B
Do BASS send out their terms when bookings are made though? I can't find the term in question on their website. |
Don't know - but for them to want to hide behind the protection of the t's&c's then they need to be available to the client prior to booking...
| snowymum wrote: |
What do you think about BASS saying they had lots of bookings when they didn't asssuming original poster is correct? |
C'mon that's one of the oldest one in the book from the direct sales TV channels saying "only 50/49/48 left" through to "exclusive offer" thru to "limited availability etc" - it's all trying to get a prospective punter to part with their cash - If the OP can't see through that one then they probably didn't bother checking the t's and c's before booking either...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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bertie bassett,
"C'mon that's one of the oldest one in the book from the direct sales TV channels saying "only 50/49/48 left" through to "exclusive offer" thru to "limited availability etc" - it's all trying to get a prospective punter to part with their cash - If the OP can't see through that one then they probably didn't bother checking the t's and c's before booking either... "
Fair enough, but dont expect any company that works on that basis to expect any customer loyalty at all. And not only no loyalty, but they can expect customers to do what they have the power to do as well - that is tell everyone about it . No company's marketing budgets can outperform the size of networks that customers can tap into and share their experiences.
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If people want pvt lessons they'll set out to buy them. T&C notwithstanding, if a school accepts a group booking then doesn't want to run it, the option of a refund should be offered, alongside any other compromises.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| bertie bassett wrote: |
Personally I don't really see why the OP is being rude about BASS Chatel - if the terms said this could happen then so be it...as it is smaller groups you always get more individual attention...
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I do understand the OP, like i wrote before. The school misrepresented to the OP how many bookings they had. Had they been honest I'd have supported the school.
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pksue@tiscali.co.uk, Sorry, the OP is right and you are wrong.
You sent him an e-mail saying that he needed to book his group lessons quick because space was running out - I assume he would be able to prove this if required.
That was obviously a lie.
Now, there wouldn't be a problem with this - it's a common business ploy after all - if you had accepted that your 'advertising' had failed to work for the week in question (I imagine that you got more than a few bookings on the back of that e-mailing?) and just allowed the lessons to go ahead with just the two in each group.
If you had done that, I suspect Markoncarp would have been posting to say how brilliant you were, and then you'd get more business - geddit?
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Monium, Sunny Apsley? Is that Apsley Herts?
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I booked BASS in Les Gets for my daugther's first ski lessons at the age of 4. The Friday before we went they rang us and said that due to an injury the group had been cancelled and we got our money back. It was holiday time so the only route was ESF, exactly the opposite to what I had planned. She did not like ESF much so the lessons were no good. Future holidays we used ESF through Esprit so the classes were smaller and all went well.
My point was that BASS did not care when they rang. Fair enough if there is an injury then they are short but their attitude was the problem. They are expensive as well.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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for the information of the BASS bashers, each resort is operated by different instructors, from different offices they have no control over each others operations other than a group marketing/advertising type arrangement on their joint website
so please do not take the attitude that you would not use them due to one incident
whilst i think the OP should have been given the information that the group was not full prior to riding the first lift, i think it is a fair policy, but they should have been given notice and the options..... how many people on here read the small print on the several contracts you sign up to every year, car hire, gas supply, air line tickets etc etc etc
if people did read the small print then there would be no threads about "what can i take in my hand luggage" etc
and before you ask i don't tend to read them either on many things
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A timely and necessary interventionCEM. The OP was specifically complaining about an occasion with BASS Chatel and unfortunately the thread has developed into comments as if the whole BASS network would be the same. Just one example shows that this is unfair. The Booking Conditions with BASS Chamonix Ltd clearly give a full a refund as an option in the event of group lessons not reaching the minimum number:
Where a booking is made for a Group lesson, rather than a Private lesson, BASS Chamonix Limited has a minimum required number of participants for each type of Group lesson, as stated on the BASS Chamonix & BASS Megeve websites. Please refer to the website for the minimum Group lesson size for your booked lessons. If we cannot fulfill the specified number for your Group lesson we will offer you a choice of either converting to private lessons or a full refund.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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ccl, CEM, but that's one of the disadvantages of a franchise network, if one site brings the reputation into question, all suffer. They may benefit from shared marketing, but you have to take the rough with the smooth
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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nbt, maybe so but there is no reason to berrate other members of the group, based on the information given it sounds like a breakdown in comunication between the booking and the lesson start... one of the perks of being in business is that european legislation means that you have to employ human beings rather than robots... sometimes they get it wrong, it doesn't mean that every human being is bad
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CEM, Hang On! The OP was very specific about his complaint, the location was specific and praised the individual instructors ...
The complaint IS about the commercial practices of the 'Group' virtual or real .. whether the policy is to give advance warning is unclear --- the Ts & Cs posted above appear to be silent on the specific items you refer to. you have assumed that it was their policy to forewarn ( I think ??).
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You know it makes sense.
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Agenterre, no i will not hang on, it is the commercial practices of one individual part of the group which is in question, absolutely no reason to attack other members
as stated personally i think the policy is perfectly fair and in the Terms and conditions.... the dispute is that the change was not comunicated until riding the first lift
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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CEM, That is your opinion .. Mine is that those Ts & Cs/ Practices ie changing the lesson format at the last minute in resort ( and I'm not going to check each location/franchise nor their status vis-a-vis relationship with their parent) are I believe inappropriate for a Premium Brand (and prices) when 'lesser' brands practice is better ( as I have experienced on 3 seperate occasions both in Switzerland & France).
Yes, I have had lessons with BASS in the last 5 seasons .. you ? 
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Poster: A snowHead
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| CEM wrote: |
| i think the policy is perfectly fair and in the Terms and conditions.... the dispute is that the change was not communicated until riding the first lift |
Agreed - How can anyone expect the group size issue to be addressed in advance of the 1st lift of the 1st morning of booked lessons. We all want to keep the ability to be able to walk upto ski school the night before and book on a course, and even 08:15 for a 09:00am start. Expecting the school to know FOR CERTAIN how many clients will be there for the 09:00 start a given day could only be achieved by them denying walk up bookings or closing bookings 2-3 days in advance of the start of the course, and that would reduce the amount of bookings they could take and thus put up prices further.
I think the t's and c's are perfectly reasonable, I'm sure the OP could have asked for a refund in that situation - the fact that he chose to continue with the lessons that had effectively become 'private lessons' would constitute acceptance of the revised terms, therefore whining about it on an internet forum when you're on holiday is a reflection on the poster not the organisation...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Agenterre, I agree with you.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| bertie bassett wrote: |
| CEM wrote: |
| i think the policy is perfectly fair and in the Terms and conditions.... the dispute is that the change was not communicated until riding the first lift |
Agreed - How can anyone expect the group size issue to be addressed in advance of the 1st lift of the 1st morning of booked lessons. We all want to keep the ability to be able to walk upto ski school the night before and book on a course, and even 08:15 for a 09:00am start. Expecting the school to know FOR CERTAIN how many clients will be there for the 09:00 start a given day could only be achieved by them denying walk up bookings or closing bookings 2-3 days in advance of the start of the course, and that would reduce the amount of bookings they could take and thus put up prices further.
I think the t's and c's are perfectly reasonable, I'm sure the OP could have asked for a refund in that situation - the fact that he chose to continue with the lessons that had effectively become 'private lessons' would constitute acceptance of the revised terms, therefore whining about it on an internet forum when you're on holiday is a reflection on the poster not the organisation... |
With the prices they charge, they ought to be able to smooth out the profit over the whole season. Seems there is some arrogance and greed involved here.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Agenterre wrote: |
Yes, I have had lessons with BASS in the last 5 seasons .. you ? |
Agenterre, not personally but my wife had a lesson with them in morzine last season
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| PJSki wrote: |
With the prices they charge, they ought to be able to smooth out the profit over the whole season. Seems there is some arrogance and greed involved here. |
how much was the last bill you got from a plumber or for a car service, neither actually enhanced the enjoyment of your holiday did they 
nice sig BTW, very interesting reading
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| CEM wrote: |
| PJSki wrote: |
With the prices they charge, they ought to be able to smooth out the profit over the whole season. Seems there is some arrogance and greed involved here. |
how much was the last bill you got from a plumber or for a car service, neither actually enhanced the enjoyment of your holiday did they |
Now you're comparing apple and oranges.
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The OP doesn't state he was offered a refund. If he was and didn't take it, that's another matter. Forget best, acceptable practice should be to be truthful to the client all the way along up to the point of changing group to pvt and also offering a refund option. As others have said, for a premium brand it's a poor show not to do this. Whoever licenses the franchisees should ensure this basic level of customer protection is ensconced within all the franchisees Ts and Cs. Not offering a refund in this situation shouldn't be an option and shouldn't be within the Ts and Cs. I'm pleased to know that BASS Chamonix and Megeve do it right. I've met the excellent Derek Tate on a couple of occasions and would expect no less from him. Don't know Will Roberts but have heard good things about him too.
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PJSki, eh... it is a service industry, and it costs a dam sight more to qualify as a ski instructor to the level of thse guys than it does to be a plumber or a motor mechanic
so why shouldn't they charge a sensible rate for their time. now if you think they are too expensive then it is your decision to go elsewhere
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| CEM wrote: |
PJSki, eh... it is a service industry, and it costs a dam sight more to qualify as a ski instructor to the level of thse guys than it does to be a plumber or a motor mechanic
so why shouldn't they charge a sensible rate for their time. now if you think they are too expensive then it is your decision to go elsewhere |
The company can easily even out profit over the season. Even plumbers charge a bit less when they don't have so much work on. All BASS have to do is charge a higher rate at peak times to cover slight overmanning at other times. Like I said, arrogance and greed are getting in the way of good customer relations.
And I think you'll find plumbing and car mechanics are proper trades, while teaching people to skid around on skis is only a rather unimportant seasonal job.
Stop being an apologist for shat service and crp T&C's.
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Ohhh is this going to be the next Inner tip lead thread?
Plumbers, prices to become an instructor... What relevance is that?
Guys Cool Down  !
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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As a consumer and customer of any service provider you have a choice. You simply choose whether you do or don’t want to purchase that product, and based on your experiences whether you will use that provider again. If you know the price and service you expect at point of sale then you cant complain really about the price later (unless the service has not been delivered). People really do need to read the T and C, but of course none of us do. I always tick the Ts and Cs box when I book an easyjet flight, truth is I have no idea what I am agreed to. That’s my problem if it all goes wrong!
Snowsports professionals invest huge sums of money and dedication in to their profession. They deserve to charge a fair rate as they have to make a living. You, the consumer decide if you want to purchase their services or not. True we don’t save peoples lives or run the economy, but it is a profession.
Cant speak for BASS Chatel as I have not dealt with that operation. However I do work for BASS Chamonix and customer satisfaction is always high on the priority. Which is why customers vote with their feet.
PSG
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Sat 6-02-10 16:39; edited 1 time in total
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| bertie bassett wrote: |
| ... I think the t's and c's are perfectly reasonable, I'm sure the OP could have asked for a refund in that situation - the fact that he chose to continue with the lessons that had effectively become 'private lessons' would constitute acceptance of the revised terms, therefore whining about it on an internet forum when you're on holiday is a reflection on the poster not the organisation... |
This is your second dig at the OP on this thread - is it something personal? It might help you to re-read the posts as you seem to have confused yourself in your haste to have a go at him. The point of his post was that he was on the first lift of the day before he was told that the number of his lessons were to be cut and he wasn't given the choice of a refund - a company policy as confirmed by the Chatel BASS representative.
I'm not sure why you are sticking up for the organisation as the post by BASS is rather contradictory. While he affirms
| pksue@tiscali.co.uk wrote: |
| ... the current policy seems to suit the majority of our clients... |
which makes it appear that they have a thoroughly tried and tested system where any complaints are a rarity, yet he earlier states
| pksue@tiscali.co.uk wrote: |
| ... this is the first season that we have done this and we have had a few clients in this situation this January... |
So the majority of a few is actually not very many - and not a large enough sample on which to be able to come to any firm conclusions that it is the best procedure, and sadly not the same procedure as the same organisation adopts in other centres.
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You know it makes sense.
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gilleski, the reason we don't read Ts and Cs from reputable companies is we expect they'll be legal and fair as they have a reputation and goodwill to protect. We avoid dealing with non-reputable companies but if we have to, would read their Ts and Cs. I don't think BASS Chatel's T&C befit them on this point and when more and more people fall victim to the terms, I'm sure some customers will vote with their feet but worse still it may harm other BASSs by associaton. I'll resist the obvious question.
Ray Zorro, quite right, well said
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Ray Zorro wrote: |
| bertie bassett wrote: |
| ... I think the t's and c's are perfectly reasonable, I'm sure the OP could have asked for a refund in that situation - the fact that he chose to continue with the lessons that had effectively become 'private lessons' would constitute acceptance of the revised terms, therefore whining about it on an internet forum when you're on holiday is a reflection on the poster not the organisation... |
This is your second dig at the OP on this thread - is it something personal? It might help you to re-read the posts as you seem to have confused yourself in your haste to have a go at him. The point of his post was that he was on the first lift of the day before he was told that the number of his lessons were to be cut and he wasn't given the choice of a refund - a company policy as confirmed by the Chatel BASS representative.
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No it isn't anything personal, I have no idea who the OP is..and like other snowheads I'm keen to 'out' those service providers that don't look after their customers...but I'm still struggling to understand what BASS Chatel did wrong to deserve such a public pounding... if it's clear in the terms and conditions of booking that this might happen and the customer has accepted those then that's just tough... deal with it, learn from it and move on.
After all it could be well argued that 3 days of lessons in a group of 2 is better than 5 days of lessons in a group of 6. If they were 2 hour lessons then the OP would effectively have c. '3 hours of private tuition' whereas with the original booking he would have had 1.6 hours, assuming the instructor spread his time equally across all his clients.
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Poster: A snowHead
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slikedges, Agree! A very direct form of feedback is when your customers dont return. As I said, i cant comment on BASS Chatel, or any other BASS snowsports school. I do however know that Derek and Shona work hard to deliver a great service in Chamonix and their opperation should be taken on merit.
PSG
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| bertie bassett wrote: |
but I'm still struggling to understand what BASS Chatel did wrong to deserve such a public pounding... if it's clear in the terms and conditions of booking that this might happen and the customer has accepted those then that's just tough... deal with it, learn from it and move on.
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BASS Chatel told the OP "places were filling fast"
Which implies the class would surely run, and the T&C about small classes would not HAVE to be invoked.
The OP turns out to be the ONLY customer booked into the class.... thats not "places were filling fast" Thus BASS Chatel misinformed the OP.
So despite having fair and commonplace T&C, BASS Chatel deserves the public pounding for misinforming a customer.
Clear?
It would reflect well on pksue@tiscali.co.uk to apologize to the OP, private or public, for not telling the OP the truth at the time of booking.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Hear hear Ronald.
I'm shocked at the number of people on here defending BASS chatel who have
1. Lied
2. Not offered the service booked and paid for or a refund.
It doesn't suit everyone to have 3 days of ski school instead of 6. If my youngest child ended up in a class like this we would not be able to ski properly for the last three days.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| CEM wrote: |
| just making a point that ski instructors should be able to charge what i would consider a fair price, if it were not fair then they would be out of business |
This is fair; but the OP contracted with a company (who set their own rates) not an individual instructor.
BASS prices are high compared to other schools; for this, the OP (and this poster, a customer on many occasions) expected quality teaching - of course - but also good service. They failed on the second count. Is anyone seriously suggesting the service was acceptable?
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| Ronald wrote: |
BASS Chatel told the OP "places were filling fast"
Which implies the class would surely run, and the T&C about small classes would not HAVE to be invoked.
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No it doesn't.
I've not seen the original email but assume it to be a general statement in a mass mailing. Ignoring the fact that 'places filling fast' is meaningless sales guff, it's quite possible that generally places actually were filling fast on a range of courses over a range of weeks. That the specific course that the OP was booked on didn't fill is unfortunate (although as I've said above, I'd rather have 6 hours of private lessons for me and Mrs Higs than be stuck in group lessons all week).
| snowymum wrote: |
...BASS chatel who have
1. Lied.... |
That's a bit harsh. Where have they lied?
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p.s. anyone who gets an email saying 'places are filling fast' and thinks "crikey, I'd better book now as places are filling fast" probably shouldn't be allowed out in public on their own, particularly if DFS happen to be running one of their occassional half price sofa sales.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Higs wrote: |
| Ronald wrote: |
BASS Chatel told the OP "places were filling fast"
Which implies the class would surely run, and the T&C about small classes would not HAVE to be invoked.
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No it doesn't.
I've not seen the original email but assume it to be a general statement in a mass mailing. Ignoring the fact that 'places filling fast' is meaningless sales guff, it's quite possible that generally places actually were filling fast on a range of courses over a range of weeks. That the specific course that the OP was booked on didn't fill is unfortunate (although as I've said above, I'd rather have 6 hours of private lessons for me and Mrs Higs than be stuck in group lessons all week).
| snowymum wrote: |
...BASS chatel who have
1. Lied.... |
That's a bit harsh. Where have they lied? |
Which is bordering on deception.
The charge is that they told the OP places were filling up when they weren't.
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The charge is that they used 'advertising' and the OP fell for it (or at least attached too much importance to a vague and non-specific phrase).
I certainly don't see deception/lies.
p.s. I do feel that BASS Chatel would have done better to have (i) informed the OP before they were on their way up and (ii) offered a refund.
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FAQ
Blunt but necessary, I think 
