 Poster: A snowHead
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Does anyone know some place inexpensive to buy these?
I get good deals on boots, but when the fitter wanted £45 a shot for footbeds, I realised that for 2 pairs of these I'd be paying half the price of one pair of boots! Then fitting on top!
I want to source the stuff and do it myself.
Don't mind buying footbeds in larger number to force the price down further.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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then open a ski shop  see how the overheads are amd make your own decision
footbeds at £45 are IMO either off the peg ones or very cheap custom ones
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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CEM, I'm surprised you even responded.
docrob, I do a nice line in Carpet Tiles.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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oh i should add the price of a hot air thermoforming machine is anywhere between £120 and £500 + VAT
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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CEM, Sainsbury's £9.99 Toaster.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
the fitter wanted £45 a shot for footbeds
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that's not much more than I pay some school leaver to cut my hair.........
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| CEM wrote: |
then open a ski shop see how the overheads are amd make your own decision
footbeds at £45 are IMO either off the peg ones or very cheap custom ones |
45 quid probably does seem expensive to many people for a couple of bits of cardboard with some gunk in between but perhaps you could give a better breakdown of the overheads. I imagine, as with anything you buy, a good chunk goes in tax to the govt before the artisan even lays a paw on it.
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| docrob wrote: |
Does anyone know some place inexpensive to buy these?
I get good deals on boots, but when the fitter wanted £45 a shot for footbeds, I realised that for 2 pairs of these I'd be paying half the price of one pair of boots! Then fitting on top!
I want to source the stuff and do it myself.
Don't mind buying footbeds in larger number to force the price down further. |
Tight lines!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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i guess the other point is that you can always get one set of decent footbeds and swap them between your boots
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| davidof wrote: |
| CEM wrote: |
then open a ski shop see how the overheads are amd make your own decision
footbeds at £45 are IMO either off the peg ones or very cheap custom ones |
45 quid probably does seem expensive to many people for a couple of bits of cardboard with some gunk in between but perhaps you could give a better breakdown of the overheads. I imagine, as with anything you buy, a good chunk goes in tax to the govt before the artisan even lays a paw on it. |
Here's how I see it; £45 retail, so that's £6.70 in VAT leaving £38.30. made up of wages, overheads, profit, machinery, cost of materials. The Footbeds are no doubt supplied to the dealer via a distributor/importer, so they've got profit, distribution, marketing, wages, offices and various other overheads. Then you've got the manufacturer with the same costs as the distributor, plus manufacturing costs, R &D, raw materials.
£45 - there ain't a lot in it for the Bootfitter.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
the fitter wanted £45 a shot for footbeds
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that's not much more than I pay some school leaver to cut my hair......... |
And it's less than I pay to have my hair done or OH and I would pay for a special meal out .............. and you also can't spread the cost of these expenses over several holidays If it's done properly you're also paying for someone's expertise and experience which most of the rest of us don't possess.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Thanks for the few constructive replies!
My mistake; hadn't realised this was seemingly a retailers forum.
I'm sorry to have irritated you retailers, the post wasn't aimed at you.
Overheads was something we learned about at school. I got it then.
I used the emotive term ripoff to attract those posters who had also baulked at paying so much for such a minimal piece of kit, not to irritate those who have huge overheads.
I didn't ask how £45 could be "justified" by those with huge overheads, or those with money to pay for them.
Presumably, anyone who pays £45 for a haircut must either have 9 times as much hair as I do, be unable to sit still in the chair, and of course these haidressers must equally have huge overheads to cover.
"hot air thermoforming machine is anywhere between £120 and £500 + VAT"...Now we're getting somewhere!
Thanks, that's interesting, so presumably they would be available from the US at about 2/3 that price.
That's worth searching for. I'll go to it!
Presumably we can also dry our liners in situ if they have a low temp setting.
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a well done set of footbeds can far outlast the footwear you bought them with - eg I got some done for my trainers about 5years ago. the full gait analysis and the footbed cost £90 which was a bit painful at the time but I am still swapping them from old trainers to new to this day and they have lasted literally 1000s of km of running. seems pretty good value to me
and in defence of the resident bootfitters on here, i have presented them with great selling opportunities by showing these footbeds to them and asking whether they think they are still OK and on both occasions they have said - no - they look well done and have plenty of life yet
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You know it makes sense.
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| docrob wrote: |
Thanks for the few constructive replies!
My mistake; hadn't realised this was seemingly a retailers forum.
I'm sorry to have irritated you retailers, the post wasn't aimed at you.
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There's only one person who's posted here that actually retails footbeds and it isn't me.
| docrob wrote: |
I used the emotive term ripoff to attract those posters who had also baulked at paying so much for such a minimal piece of kit, not to irritate those who have huge overheads. |
Knowing the costs involved, I can quite easily see why they cost at least £45 and indeed mine cost more than twice that. Unless it's just an off the peg item, you're paying for an expert's skill in customising it.
| docrob wrote: |
I didn't ask how £45 could be "justified" by those with huge overheads, or those with money to pay for them.
Presumably, anyone who pays £45 for a haircut must either have 9 times as much hair as I do, be unable to sit still in the chair, and of course these haidressers must equally have huge overheads to cover. |
I bought my own set of clippers for £20 and do it myself, No.1 all over, but I wouldn't want to be filling my own teeth. Hairdressers as we all know have huge overheads because they have BMW X5s to pay for.
| docrob wrote: |
"hot air thermoforming machine is anywhere between £120 and £500 + VAT"...Now we're getting somewhere!
Thanks, that's interesting, so presumably they would be available from the US at about 2/3 that price.
That's worth searching for. I'll go to it!
Presumably we can also dry our liners in situ if they have a low temp setting. |
Don't forget to cost in the price of a 110v-240v transformer and shipping together with import duty.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Iski, Wear the helmet and just trim the hair that sticks out from it. 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
Does anyone know some place inexpensive to buy these?
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If you find out let me know, I feel pain everytime I order in stock 
You will probably also need grinders, extraction, stock materials, cutters, adhesives and solvents etc. Oh and space for it all.
If you supply them to others you will need to comply with such things as the factories act, H&S, COSHHE. You will probably also need indemnity insurance.
Possibly a bit of training too.
Your equipment and stock ties up capital till you sell and you have to maintain it too.
You need the time to make them.
At the end of the day, looking at the previous posts, I think I should have been a hairdresser
ps I'm not a bootfitter either
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I found yoursole.com does various heatmoldable footbeds at $50 with 25 off if 8 ordered (can get same type/a mix); thats half the price I was looking to beat.
They also have quite a useful selection tool re' type of arch/pronation/use/ etc.
I think there's a uk site also, but bound to be more expensive.
Anyone found anything better, please let me know.
No duty if you ship to a friend stateside and then bring them back from a trip, or even as a gift at that price.
Not planning to sell them on, can easily use 8 beds in my own boots.
Never had a problem finding cheap transformers to run US stuff here.
UK stuff works fine there as well, although it's hit and miss if it has a motor that can't take 60HZ..although sometimes running faster is more of a benefit than a problem.
At a time when the experts still can't agree whether beds should be moulded to a neutral or loaded foot, and given that a mould made to a static foot at rest in a shop (by either technique) hardly represents a fully warmed up foot in action, maybe it's time to consider beds that allow more of a combination of premoulding and moulding in use.
Would be interested to hear pros and cons of thermomoulding liners in situ using hot air (to reduce twisting/deformation on return to the boot) or by fan oven.
The only pair I ever had done in a fan oven and fitted professionally by a recommended boot fitter were a total botch, possibly due to insufficient liner heating, the manhandling of the liner into the boots when soft, not ensuring the seam underneath was centred, not trimming the footbed before foot and footbed inserted into the liner, using too much foot padding and using a footbed with too much arch support.
When taking this other pair into another fitter a year later and finding the only available footbeds were 3 times the price...that's when I decided to do it myself.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| docrob wrote: |
...
Anyone found anything better, please let me know.
... |
www.oursole.com
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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nothing there about footbeds!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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unless you mean the uk site:
nowhere near hardboot quality.
Not for skiboots/snowboard hardboots.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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docrob, so if you spend £170 pound on sourcing your own footbeds, with free transport and tax avoidance, plus the cost of equipment (I suppose you could manage it for another £200 if it only has to manage the 8 pairs) plus your time you've made quite a saving over the £50 pair. Have to say even I would struggle to find a use for 8 pairs of footbeds for myself.
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the biggest problem is that if you put 10 people in a room, (experts in whatever subject) you will get 10 opinions
as to how fitters shold make a footbed well that is a personal choice and it depends on the fitter, personally i build the vast majority of what i do non weightbearing in a vacuum, i know good fitters who build all their product semi weightbearing and others all weight bearing...it is not the product which causes the problem it is the guy making it!
next problem ..there is a lack of training available to the fitters, and what is available many the shop owners think they know already so they dont want to send staff on..and hense the lack of skills
thermo liners of the type that can be put in the oven should be heated in the oven, the heat stacks just do not get enough heat into the liner to mould it correctly, i think based on your post above you have already discovered this and that was by a fitter using an oven
the key is how the foot, the footbed , all the padding and the liner is inserted into the boot and how it is held /stretched etc whilst doing so
good judgement comes from experience....experience comes from poor judgement
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
can easily use 8 beds in my own boots
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docrob, you should change your name to Aragog.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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docrob, going back to the footbed rip off..... what makes you think they are a rip off, the R&D alone is extensive, the products i work with are designed and manufactuered by a mediacl orthotics company, they have some 35 US medical patents protecting their designs and products from rip off merchants the owner of the company is amongst the best podiatrists in the world, they employ a tool maker to make the moulds rather than farming the work out to an external source etc etc etc.
prehaps you have had a bad experience and what you need to find is a boot fitter rather than a boot seller who trys to fit boots there are a few about if you look.... alternatively you could pursue your plan, not sure it would save you money and what makes you think that your liner moulding attempts will work out as planned, i see a good few people a year who have tried to self mould intuition or similar liners and right royally stuffed them up.
good luck with your project
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You know it makes sense.
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| CEM wrote: |
docrob, going back to the footbed rip off..... what makes you think they are a rip off, the R&D alone is extensive, the products i work with are designed and manufactuered by a mediacl orthotics company, they have some 35 US medical patents protecting their designs and products from rip off merchants the owner of the company is amongst the best podiatrists in the world, they employ a tool maker to make the moulds rather than farming the work out to an external source etc etc etc.
prehaps you have had a bad experience and what you need to find is a boot fitter rather than a boot seller who trys to fit boots there are a few about if you look.... alternatively you could pursue your plan, not sure it would save you money and what makes you think that your liner moulding attempts will work out as planned, i see a good few people a year who have tried to self mould intuition or similar liners and right royally stuffed them up.
good luck with your project |
interesting thread this, i spoke to someone at my locla bannatynes gym about foot beds and they were quoting approx 250-350 for ones that are sent to the states and milled out of carbon or some such..
spent 40 quid from local shop and they work (so far) but i'm sure they could be better.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Interesting post CEM; totally agreed.
I think I'll be using my fan oven.
What's the problem of 8 footbeds, LOL!?
They don't go off you know! Boots wear out, improved models arrive, then there's downhill boots, tele boots, touring boots, snowboard hardboots, mountaineering boots.. DUR? Do you think I plan to swap footbeds between boots!? Their shape varies, their use varies! It wouldn't work.
Common guys! Think positive!
Nothing wrong with self sufficiency.
I don't earn that much money, and don't mind learning new skills if it means fewer years before retirement and more time on the mountain.
Anyway, now I'm down to £20 for thermoformable plastic, eva coated, lined footbeds (comparable quality to Conformable) from a well known reputable company, including postage, and tax,
without infringing any morals or laws that currently exist in the northern hemisphere.
..and have priced the bits that I don't have at £10. Onward costs will be only ..(hold onto a railing or something to steady yourselves now guys!)..any more footbeds??!!
All set!
Not bad for 2 hours on the net while I chat to friends, drink eat and rest from the week.
Thanks the condescending ridicule, and reasons why not! I might not have sorted it so quickly otherwise.
Enjoy the rest of the season folks (as far as the various limits, customs and legislation allows of course!) 
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Poster: A snowHead
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AuGH.....what is going on?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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first mistake is seeing a bootfitter that charges you for a fitting on top of the product......not such a good deal in my book
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
Common guys! Think positive!
Nothing wrong with self sufficiency.
I don't earn that much money, and don't mind learning new skills if it means fewer years before retirement and more time on the mountain.
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Then stop messing around on forums, get a part-time job and get the job done properly.
Bio mechanics, development and a keen eye is needed, as this is your first effort, perhaps best way to train yourself would be a small investment visiting a well versed expert.
Seems a small price to pay for a product that will repay value and give you a chance to ask as many questions as you want before you turn your liners and footbeds into popcorn.
There are so many variables, so see as many people as you can and get expert opinions, if you are indeed a quick learner and have some aptitude then this will appeal to you.
Good luck.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I think your thread title might just raise a little bile.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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docrob, Hi you could always try my approach. I've come back to skiing two years ago and baulked at the hire prices, ski one week a year if I'm lucky. So bought second hand boots on ebay including post £25 so far done 2 weeks in them. They are off for another week in march so I have spoiled them to new insoles £1.99 from lidl but I am keeping the origionals in case. My boots are very comfey. My skiing is great fun, I'm not going for a medal but love a bit of speed sure if I had the money I'd buy new ones and custom footbeds. BUT I'v read loads of posts on here from people who spend 100's on boots then get crippling pain from them. Scares me off buying new.
pam w, Unless I am mistaken you are local to me maybe when you're back in the uk you should try a salon a few doors nearer the station and not Creations (just guessing)! Cut and finish £34.50. with me qualified to advanced. 7 years salon experience. Not a pretencious salon and decent coffee.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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We are all doomed!
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| ski4life wrote: |
| We are all doomed! |
didn't realize it was terminal, you looked ok at the trade show during the week
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Hows the back CEM?? looked painful bro
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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As I understand it, the purpose of footbeds are to hold your feet in position within the boots. As I have narrow but otherwise 'normal' feet and I'm not a performance or heavy usage skier, on the advice of my bootfitter, I opted for the cheapest custom-moulded footbeds. I realise I am lucky as these in conjunction with heat-moulded off-the-shelf boots seem to have done the trick for me with no additional expense.
However, if you are someone with any degree of foot problems or you are a high performance skier, the whole process may end up costing more to resolve these issues. Most people seem happy to pay these costs to maximise their enjoyment of skiing. Quibbling about the odd £20 here and there when the real issue is foot comfort seems a bit odd to me. And I am the proverbial cheapskate!
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ski4life, a lot better thanks, more "fizzeo" and some pain killers seemed to sort it... 100 lines i must wear my back brace for skiing!
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FAQ
