 Poster: A snowHead
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I don't get it, really. We have been working around the clock to find funding for our Freeski/Freeride Athletes this summer/winter. It has been difficult, but possible and have seen some athlete funding jump up by 1200% (4,000€ to 50,000€, 1 athlete!!).
This story make's me unhappy, as I can't see why it hasn't been possible for someone so well connected and experienced to see this through to a satisfactory conclusion.
Each of the Uk athletes clearly need personal representation if this is to be resolved, but I too have experienced problems here as once certain amounts are achieved, the managers agents receive no payment. Tough call.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| roga wrote: |
| GrahamN bertie bassett, I think what you're both missing is that a fair number of people ski but only a small minority are 'skiers'! |
I don't think I am - I was referring to the confusion that bertie bassett was expressing as a keen skier. And then went on to make the point regarding "people who ski" in my final para, in extreme shorthand, that david@mediacopy elaborated so well. And Bertie, yes, I was thinking more about licenses in the context of hiring/skippering 30-footers, but the point that David makes elaborates is where RYA does get involved through club level affiliation etc..
I only really started getting grips with what SSE were about when I started racing.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| roga wrote: |
GrahamN bertie bassett, I think what you're both missing is that a fair number of people ski but only a small minority are 'skiers'!
Why on earth would anyone just going for a one off holiday in the Alps, or even yearly, know anything about bodies governing the sport in the UK? Now if participating in the sport over here you'd stand a far better chance of knowing about some of the bodies, most likely BASI who have their logo on websites like Hemel's or SSE/SSS, more often seen at dry slopes, and many instructors wear the badge as well. |
No that was exactly the point I made a few posts higher when I said ....
| bertie bassett wrote: |
| Why is it worrying to confuse that lot - they're ALL pretty irrelevant for 95% of the people participating in the sport - and isn't that that a good explanation behind the problem |
Which is better explaiined by david@mediacopy's post :-
| david@mediacopy wrote: |
| If you look at many other sports where people participate regularly, it's often through a club where a membership is paid, which in turn feeds in part to the National Governing Body. I'm thinking Badminton (BAE), Tennis (LTA), ASA (Competitive Swimming) etc. etc. In part, that fee covers insurance but I'm fairly sure that some of the National Governing Body fee's go towards supporting their respective National teams and competitors.One of the problems with skiing is that very few participants are members of a ski club, and therefore do not support Snowsport England\Scotland\Wales\Ireland whom I assume in-turn contribute to Snowsports GB who look after the International competition. With so very little money flowing from the participating public to the National Governing bodies, I assume that their respective Coaching schemes represent a critical revenue stream - hence the lack of agreement during the 'modernisation' process. |
Agreed - though how you get a punter to contribute £30 or so to their Skiing NGO on top of 'an extraordinarily expensive holiday' I have no idea, but what you could do is get the keenies to contribute...
To solve the immediate crisis could we not get the UK snowsports industry to try do something to help - setup a justgiving page (or similar) for the team then get crystal/tui/nielesen etc to bung out a mailshot to all their recent skiers - and get us all to chip in £10 - if we got 50,000 people (a small proportion of the numbers of people identified as skiers in the stats) then we'd be some way toward affording coaches etc and airfares to the games...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| bertie bassett wrote: |
| To solve the immediate crisis could we not get the UK snowsports industry to try do something to help - setup a justgiving page (or similar) for the team then get crystal/tui/nielesen etc to bung out a mailshot to all their recent skiers - and get us all to chip in £10 - if we got 50,000 people (a small proportion of the numbers of people identified as skiers in the stats) then we'd be some way toward affording coaches etc and airfares to the games... |
Well, firstly airfares etc for the games are a British Olympic Association affair so no issue there. A levy on holidays has been suggested to the big TOs many many times before and laughed out of court. A whip round? No chance, there are far better causes than "a rich sport".
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| GrahamN wrote: |
| I don't think I am - I was referring to the confusion that bertie bassett was expressing as a keen skier. And then went on to make the point regarding "people who ski" in my final para, in extreme shorthand, that david@mediacopy elaborated so well. |
Sorry Graham perhaps I misread then so I guess we agree!
| bertie bassett wrote: |
No that was exactly the point I made a few posts higher when I said ....
| bertie bassett wrote: |
| Why is it worrying to confuse that lot - they're ALL pretty irrelevant for 95% of the people participating in the sport - and isn't that that a good explanation behind the problem |
Which is better explaiined by david@mediacopy's post :-
| david@mediacopy wrote: |
| If you look at many other sports where people participate regularly, it's often through a club where a membership is paid, which in turn feeds in part to the National Governing Body. I'm thinking Badminton (BAE), Tennis (LTA), ASA (Competitive Swimming) etc. etc. In part, that fee covers insurance but I'm fairly sure that some of the National Governing Body fee's go towards supporting their respective National teams and competitors.One of the problems with skiing is that very few participants are members of a ski club, and therefore do not support Snowsport England\Scotland\Wales\Ireland whom I assume in-turn contribute to Snowsports GB who look after the International competition. With so very little money flowing from the participating public to the National Governing bodies, I assume that their respective Coaching schemes represent a critical revenue stream - hence the lack of agreement during the 'modernisation' process. |
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Again sorry if I misread but why are you two disagreeing then if you're both saying the same thing?
| Quote: |
| Agreed - though how you get a punter to contribute £30 or so to their Skiing NGO on top of 'an extraordinarily expensive holiday' I have no idea, but what you could do is get the keenies to contribute... |
I have no idea either and frankly I don't think such a model is sensible or sustainable, these people 'ski' they are not 'skiers' which I guess is what I was trying to scrabble towards in the post where I seem to have misunderstood the two of you  . IMHO there are 2 distinct types of people who slide on snow, the people who go for the winter equivalent of a beach holiday and those for whom the sport is a passion and something they do regularly. We don't ask those who go on beach holidays and have a splash in the sea to fund cross-channel swimming or competitive beach volleyball so why should we ask holiday skiers to fund competitive snowsports?
The 'skiers' may include those who go abroad for 4/5 weeks a season to enjoy the mountains, they be those who go for regular sessions at domes and dry slopes or they may be those who ski regularly every season on the club fields of Northern England and in the ski areas of Scotland, where, as I pointed out way back, I'd argue there is a culture of snowsports that is fundamentally different, and deeper, than anywhere else in the UK (and therefore should IMHO be supported by anyone who considers him/herself a 'skier' in the UK). They may also include people who have a great interest in competitive snowsports as well as those who don't but at least they are 'serious' about the sport and potentially, through their clubs and local organisations or instructors, may come to understand the need for supporting some sort of UK snowsports governing body.
| Quote: |
| To solve the immediate crisis could we not get the UK snowsports industry to try do something to help - setup a justgiving page (or similar) for the team then get crystal/tui/nielesen etc to bung out a mailshot to all their recent skiers - and get us all to chip in £10 - if we got 50,000 people (a small proportion of the numbers of people identified as skiers in the stats) then we'd be some way toward affording coaches etc and airfares to the games... |
Worth a try I'd guess and it may help to alleviate the immediate crisis but I don't think it's a sustainable model for the future so let me ask a question, what do they do in other countries?
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| bertie bassett wrote: |
| ..........To solve the immediate crisis could we not get the UK snowsports industry to try do something to help - setup a justgiving page (or similar) for the team then get crystal/tui/nielesen etc to bung out a mailshot to all their recent skiers - and get us all to chip in £10 ..... |
Who's "us"? You and your computer?
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Who's us? I would suggest those that care about British snowsports - which would appear to not include achilles . I'm in, and have already contributed to Ed Drake's fighting fund - I just hope (without much expectation) that's not gone down the pan with SSGB.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Ernst Goldsmith wrote: |
We all return to 118 Eaton Square and have another go.
Historical note: the National Ski Federation of Great Britain (I think that was its original name) was hosted by the SCGB at Eaton Square for many years, after the Ski Club lost its role as the governing body of British ski racing. |
As anyone whose has watched the Centenary DVD would be able to tell you, the SCGB didn't lose its role, it actually gave it up willingly - as in, it didn't want to be the governing body any more.
More inaccurately worded reportage from you.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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GrahamN, suggest away. To me 'us' suggests the whole of the snowheads fraternity, and maybe all skiers and boarders - which is not true. 'Us' implies widespread support, which is not there, in an effort (in this case) to impose a blanket charge on all, so that enthusiasts do not to have to bear the full cost of their enthusiasm themselves. Naughty, if understandable.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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There is a fun way of supporting the team. Chemmy's brother Rufus has organised an event...
THE SNOW BALL
Thursday 11th February 2010
One Whitehall Place, London
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The Snow Ball is trying to address the dire straits that the British Ski team finds itself in due to the situation at Snowsport GB.
The team is now lacking the financial security that other nations’ athletes are able to take for granted.
The sentiment of the public is one of embarrassment and there is a general will to help but this sentiment must be ridden before the Olympics, albeit creating a short term solution to a much deeper rooted issue.
This is not just an event but also a portal through which you can donate directly to the future of British Ski Racing.
I can guarantee that every penny of your donation here will end up in the pockets of those who need it most in British skiing - the athletes and their support groups.
In the short term this may be the only way that the athletes can continue to compete this season.
There will be a raffle with tickets sold online and throughout the night.
After dinner there will be a 10 lot auction with some fantastic prizes to bid for including:
A table for 10 in the corporate hospitality marquee at the Hurlingham Polo in the Park.
A 3 day weekend at the Farinet Hotel in Verbier including ski lessons and CHF1,000 behind the bar.
A Fourball at the West Course at Wentworth
A 2 hour 737 flight simulator
.............and many more to be confirmed
In order to attend this fantastic event a donation is required per ticket.
Tickets are a minimum donation of £100
Tables of 10 are minimum donation of £1,000
Of course if you wish to donate more than this for the ticket we would be more than happy to accept that.
If you are interested in attending this fantastic event please email (snowball@thealcotts.com)
You can also visit our Facebook Page
If you wish to donate a prize for either the auction or raffle please email (snowball@thealcotts.com)
I hope to see you there.
Rufus Alcott
This exclusive evening will take place at One Whitehall Place on London's Embankment.
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The evening will comprise of:
19:30 Arrival and champagne reception with music by a special guest
20:15 Sumptious 3 course Dinner
22:15 Auction
22:45 Dancing and casino begins
02:00 Carriages
Dress: Black tie with a hint of Britain
He's pulled this together in record time. See you there.
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bertie bassett said:
| Quote: |
| Agreed - though how you get a punter to contribute £30 or so to their Skiing NGO on top of 'an extraordinarily expensive holiday' I have no idea, but what you could do is get the keenies to contribute... |
And this is where the HNGBs have been incredibly remiss. SSE (for one) appears to do little to promote it's role outside of 'the converted' and as a result few skiers understand their role and function. Here on snow heads, when misconceptions regarding the HNGBs are posted there is little or no 'official' presence to promote their case or correct misconceptions.
The key to the funding problem is getting more skiers skiing with clubs here in the UK - and therefore providing affiliation fee's to the HNGBs. Now we an infrastructure of snowdomes, and the (slim) possibility of outdoor skiing in England, not to mention the dry slopes, there is a strong argument that 'holiday' skiers can participate in their sport all year round.
Not an easy task, but I'm fairly sure that the promotion of Skiing in the UK is part of the remit of the HNGBs. If they can do that & increase club membership their funding problems can only be helped.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
And this is where the HNGBs have been incredibly remiss. SSE (for one) appears to do little to promote it's role outside of 'the converted' and as a result few skiers understand their role and function. Here on snow heads, when misconceptions regarding the HNGBs are posted there is little or no 'official' presence to promote their case or correct misconceptions.
The key to the funding problem is getting more skiers skiing with clubs here in the UK - and therefore providing affiliation fee's to the HNGBs. Now we an infrastructure of snowdomes, and the (slim) possibility of outdoor skiing in England, not to mention the dry slopes, there is a strong argument that 'holiday' skiers can participate in their sport all year round.
Not an easy task, but I'm fairly sure that the promotion of Skiing in the UK is part of the remit of the HNGBs. If they can do that & increase club membership their funding problems can only be helped.
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I agree with this and thought it worthwhile to pitch in some things on how it works in Alberta. A lot of kids are in race clubs, a lot just start there with no intention of ever becoming a racer , but as somewhere to learn to ski beyond a certain level, each family in the race club is mandated to buy $100 worth of raffle tickets (prizes donated by sponsors) in a national draw with all monies going to ALbera Alpine, plus maybe on top the club pays affiliation fees. The club is 50% funded through subs, 20% through fund raising and 30% through casino funding (where non profit groups for kids and schools can volunteer at a casino for two shifts a rota and then make $75K. Effectively within the club there is a pyramid with huge numbers at the base and entry levels with it dropping off at higher levels. I suspect the entry levels subsidise the higher levels.
I feel that with all these snow domes and dry slopes, more could be done to get the kids racing and therefore supplying money further up
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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david@mediacopy, This is an interesting concept that people are promoting here. Essentially that when you join a ski club your affiliation fees should flow up to support the elite level. In most national sporting organisations my understanding is that the money usually flows down to support grassroots involvement. At least that is my impression of the well organised ones. The one exception to this i would say would be juniors level high end participation where specific grants aren't necessarily available like should be available to the high end international athletes.
To me as an outsider looking in SSGB have made an absolute mess of the situation & been incredibly badly managed by sounds of it. I doubt having another 1-10,000 members paying thirty quid a year would have changed it much other than possibly deferring their inevitable demise.
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Poster: A snowHead
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FAQ
or maybe not ?
