 Poster: A snowHead
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to what extent does equipment off piste and technical ability dictate making turns.
found that my ski's, pretty much piste skis, would either submarine or found turning difficult.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Technique first, equipment second. So if you want to improve your off piste skiing first get some lessons, then more appropriate skis!
If you watch a really good skier off piste it won't make a huge difference what skis they're on.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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beanie1, up to a point. Piste skis may well be 170ish long and <70mm wide. Not a huge problem taking those into soft snow if you're only 8-10 stone, but you're on a hiding to nothing trying to do that if you're a 6'+ 16+ stoner. Sure, I've skied with ISTDs who do a lovely job in soft snow on SL (or race dept GS) skis, but they sure as hell didn't do that while they were learning (and they tend to be thin wiry types too). While the better you are the better you will be able to cope with less than optimal skis, submarining may well be due to them being too small. Difficulty in turning is more likely a technique issue. If you're trying to learn soft/variable conditions, get some skis that give you a fighting chance.
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GrahamN, I thought after I'd written the above that I should have added - if you're using an appropriate ski for your level to start off with. An intermediate skier, on an intermediate type piste ski, will gain more from a lesson than from changing their skis.
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I've skied with ISTDs who do a lovely job in soft snow on SL (or race dept GS) skis, but they sure as hell didn't do that while they were learning
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No - if they're over the age of about 30 they probably learnt to ski deep snow on 190cm + straight skis... 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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If the skis are submarining (you do mean the tips are diving right) they're probably too short - if you're hiring thats easy to remedy, and fat skis wouldn't really help here (softer ones or rockerd skis would though). I'd say get lessons, probably you're legs aren't active enough, try and really bounce your turns.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| GrahamN wrote: |
| beanie1, up to a point. Piste skis may well be 170ish long and <70mm wide. Not a huge problem taking those into soft snow if you're only 8-10 stone, but you're on a hiding to nothing trying to do that if you're a 6'+ 16+ stoner. Sure, I've skied with ISTDs who do a lovely job in soft snow on SL (or race dept GS) skis, but they sure as hell didn't do that while they were learning (and they tend to be thin wiry types too). While the better you are the better you will be able to cope with less than optimal skis, submarining may well be due to them being too small. Difficulty in turning is more likely a technique issue. If you're trying to learn soft/variable conditions, get some skis that give you a fighting chance. |
currently using head c260i 170 long.
also 6' and 15 stone so.. but my tech is ropey.. tons of confidence, dodgey talent..
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mugen, this all sounds like an excellent excuse to have some fun buying some new gear! 
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| clarky999 wrote: |
| If the skis are submarining (you do mean the tips are diving right) they're probably too short - if you're hiring thats easy to remedy, and fat skis wouldn't really help here (softer ones or rockerd skis would though). I'd say get lessons, probably you're legs aren't active enough, try and really bounce your turns. |
yup the tips are diving quicker than U57. not sure what you mean by active but i'll look into it
thanks
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| abj wrote: |
| mugen, this all sounds like an excellent excuse to have some fun buying some new gear! |
funny thats what i was thinking.. but i also need to tidy up my style (or rather total lack of)
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| mugen wrote: |
currently using head c260i 170 long.
also 6' and 15 stone so.. |
So there's the problem to start with - not a hope in hell if you've more than 3-4" of soft snow. Rent something 85mm-ish underfoot and around 180cm, not too stiff - say something like the Zag 84, or the Scott Mission, or even as narrow as the Rossi SC80 if you must (but then you might want to go a tad longer) - and you'll stand a chance. Then go for some lessons - as the longer ski will then make it even harder to turn, but at least you stand a chance of being the right way up when you're trying to do so..
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| GrahamN wrote: |
| mugen wrote: |
currently using head c260i 170 long.
also 6' and 15 stone so.. |
So there's the problem to start with - not a hope in hell if you've more than 3-4" of soft snow. Rent something 85mm-ish underfoot and around 180cm, not too stiff - say something like the Zag 84, or the Scott Mission, or even as narrow as the Rossi SC80 if you must (but then you might want to go a tad longer) - and you'll stand a chance. Then go for some lessons - as the longer ski will then make it even harder to turn, but at least you stand a chance of being the right way up when you're trying to do so.. |
Yes I'm on SC80's in powder and have been told they are fine, I'm also told that I need to invest in technique [lessons], not more skis
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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yup the tips are diving quicker than U57. not sure what you mean by active but i'll look into it
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Going up and down, taking the pressure on and off the skis (ie, stand up before the turn, going down through the turn).
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You know it makes sense.
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I would agree with beanie1, except that I would put technique first, second and third with equipment fourth. It certainly won't help if you are on totally the wrong skis, but neither will getting some as fat as your face if you don't know what to do with them.
Skiers starting to go off piste face three main problems, fitness, technique and mileage.
-Once your legs go, and that will happen all the sooner with poor technique, all else goes to pot.
-Modern skis and over grooming will flatter to deceive but the rough stuff whether death cookies, powder, or crust will quickly find any imperfection in your technique.
-Lastly and most difficult, unless you are skiing a lot its hard if not impossible to do enough powder skiing to get good at it.
Be very fit when you go, and get instruction from a GOOD instructor, ISIA minimum, they will be able to sort out any problems (which will often be done On Piste) and show you how to apply it.
As for equipment as said above, something around 84 underfoot; you will know when you need something much fatter.
Its worth the effort, I know of nothing that comes close to a powder day, and I mean nothing.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| clarky999 wrote: |
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yup the tips are diving quicker than U57. not sure what you mean by active but i'll look into it
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Going up and down, taking the pressure on and off the skis (ie, stand up before the turn, going down through the turn). |
ah.. bunny hops aren't what they used to be, but getting there again
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| jbob wrote: |
I would agree with beanie1, except that I would put technique first, second and third with equipment fourth. It certainly won't help if you are on totally the wrong skis, but neither will getting some as fat as your face if you don't know what to do with them.
Skiers starting to go off piste face three main problems, fitness, technique and mileage.
-Once your legs go, and that will happen all the sooner with poor technique, all else goes to pot.
-Modern skis and over grooming will flatter to deceive but the rough stuff whether death cookies, powder, or crust will quickly find any imperfection in your technique.
-Lastly and most difficult, unless you are skiing a lot its hard if not impossible to do enough powder skiing to get good at it.
Be very fit when you go, and get instruction from a GOOD instructor, ISIA minimum, they will be able to sort out any problems (which will often be done On Piste) and show you how to apply it.
As for equipment as said above, something around 84 underfoot; you will know when you need something much fatter.
Its worth the effort, I know of nothing that comes close to a powder day, and I mean nothing. |
i used to do race training years ago. but a lot of that has been lost in the mists of time. fitness should be ok as i do 5km running per night and 20 at weekends among other boring crap.. all that so i can drink beer when i want..
it probably is technique that is at issue as can see several problem areas when skiing..
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Whilst i won't disagree there's no substitute for good technique. As a beginner you'll find it much easier to ski it on modern fatter skis. They'll certainly enable you to improve in these conditions at a much faster pace & enjoy said period much more than you would on skinny skis.
My recommendation is next time you're away & good off-piste conditions present themselves try & see if you can rent a pair of skis 95-100+ underfoot with rockered tips & in excess of 180 in length, preferably 185-195. I think this idea that you don't need fat skis is like a kind of reverse snobism. Yes it's possible to ski almost anything on skinnier skis if you're fit & skilled enough however you'll find it a lot easier & more fun on bigger skis.
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frank4short, you're essentailly saying the same as me, but I think you're possibly over-egging it a bit on the ski size. For his size and weight I think going over 185cm long is going to make the turning issue (technique) more of a problem, and the fatter skis (90+) do take a bit more commitment to get onto edge. Hence my recommendation for the Zags or Missions at mid to high 80s underfoot - they both also have good long snouts to give excellent float and cope with chop, and also short sidecuts to get the ski turning. He's about my size, and those have done a reasonable job for me in the past, although I now ski something more along your lines allowing higher speed/performance. I think skis that size will start reintroducing more problems than they are solving.
The bouncing thing is a bit old hat and less necessary with fatter skis - yes it can still help, particularly in really tough snow, but it can be much smoother now than you see in clips of good old-fashioned style. I think nowadays a little bounce or two to get started is really more about loosening your body up and freeing your limbs to move smoothly than platform building.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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GrahamN, I specifically noted hiring those kind of skis when the conditions are right for the OP to see what he's missing. I'm not referring to someone that's just getting into it buying a pair of specialist skis. More the point that if it does happen hire a pair of compromise free skis & see the difference it will make. Then maybe after that point he should consider compromising if he decides to purchase another pair of skis.
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FAQ
too light for the job? It needs more oomph! in an up and down style! Bendz ze knees 