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Ski Beat - the worst ski trip experience ever?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Quote:

there was the usual DG initiated anonymity-is-bad interlude

Isn't he EG? Or is neither of those his real name? Laughing
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Lizzard, we now know he is DEG

perhaps we could call him Degsy? Madeye-Smiley
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
stoatsbrother, - Laughing Laughing
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 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
halfhand, indeed... Toofy Grin
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
stoatsbrother,
Quote:

None of the rest of us actually know exactly went on.
Well spotted. wink
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 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
No bergenbergen isnt right and neither are you or the other thread posters or me, what is even 'right'? no one knows, the OP came to say what she said and i doubt she cares 1% what you all think, only you the 18 page makers care, go ski.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
geeo, Laughing You really don't understand snowHeads do you?
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
geeo, rolling eyes

if there is no such a thing as right - why is that you are getting your panties in such a bunch about a group of people having a lively debate and why are you decrying other peoples posting behaviour?

And if she didn't care what people would think - why did she bother posting in an internet forum?

But thanks for your insightful and illuminating contribution...

Jeez.
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
http://blogs.technet.com/photos/gray_knowlton/images/2998979/original.aspx

Laughing
ski holidays
 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
I'm with Pandora. Maybe I'm just not that old and cynical yet, stoatsbrother Toofy Grin . I believe she has a genuine grievance whatever the exact details, and in particular I have little reasonable doubt that Ski Beat staff behaved entirely unprofessionally. Most of the "perspective from industry" is not enlightening in the least and just comes across as a closing of ranks and I'd've thought you were around here enough not to confuse stirrers with stirring wink . No problem with free speech of course, except that just as in the real world, while good sense usually prevails eventually, in the run up it's often those with a vested interest (or idle malificence) who are heard the most (not including you in this BTW).
ski holidays
 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
slikedges, in fact, almost all posters - apart, possibly, from one or two stirrers - agree that the OP has a genuine grievance and that SB staff behaved unprofessionally, if not entirely so. But, to be fair, that's not quite the whole point, is it?
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Hurtle, spot on.


slikedges I suspect too she has a genuine grievance about the reps behaviour. Most of the people who have suggested that there might be more than one view point - and that naming the two RMs in such away might not be the best idea - are not from the industry.

I think we agree - I just don't think the thread has to be a mass love-in and lets-all-stroke-fluffy-kittens-and-believe-everything fest the way geeo and his/her ilk would have it.
ski holidays
 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Boredsurfing wrote:
PJSki,
Quote:

Or maybe someone has received a solicitor's letter

Do you think a big company like Ski Beat would do that rather then come on here like Neilsons did and explain/apologise/reassure?


Is this the Neilsons intervention you are talking about? http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=47243
ski holidays
 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
PJSki wrote:
Boredsurfing wrote:
PJSki,
Quote:

Or maybe someone has received a solicitor's letter

Do you think a big company like Ski Beat would do that rather then come on here like Neilsons did and explain/apologise/reassure?


Is this the Neilsons intervention you are talking about? http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=47243

Yep.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
That's not a complaint being dealt with. If you're tying to present that as a precedent being set and one which SB should follow in this instance, it's a pretty weak argument. Are there any instances of other companies dealing with proper complaints directly via snowHeads?
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
PJSki, Chamexpress in this thread http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=38966
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
PJSki, I'm sure there must be examples. Ultimately, to kill it before it becomes a monster, the customer needs fast and direct contact from the supplier. Problem gets resolved quickly and, in the ideal world, customer feels satisfied enough to come back on and say that they are happy with the way it was dealt with. Win:win.

Or, if customer is genuinely a PITA and resolution is impossible, the supplier has choice of (a) ignoring it or (b) wading in with their side of the story and hoping that it doesn't deepen the issue and heap more attention on it. A difficult call.

I suspect that SB have broken all the rules by registering as a newbie and trying to pervert the natural course... just a suspicion Cool
ski holidays
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
stoatsbrother, Hurtle, I don't disagree with any of that, just doing my bit to keep the overall flow on track Little Angel

Bode Swiller, my suspicion too
ski holidays
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
Quote:

Is this the Neilsons intervention you are talking about? http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=47243


Ooooh ... I'm famous! How exciting Very Happy

As you will see, my original post on that thread wasn't meant to be a complaint, and certainly wasn't posted to get a reaction from the TO (I'm not that clever/devious wink ).

The main reason in starting that particular thread was try and get some feedback from my fellow Snowheads as to whether I should be worried or not about a spelling mistake on a ticket (which the TO wasn't keen on changing).

An unintended result was to be contacted by the boss of the TO ... which was a pleasant surprise. But really the point of the post was just to get some advice (which is where forums such as snowHead are so useful).
ski holidays
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Forgot to say (just for the record) that I had travelled numerous times with the TO in advance of my own thread ... and have indeed travelled with the since.

Did the intervention of the MD make a difference to me sticking with them? Hard to say ... but it certainly showed good-will, and made that particular holiday less stressful.

Having said that, this particular thread seems to have started with a very different 'tone' - so probably/maybe not a fair comparison?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
alex_heney wrote:
PJSki, Chamexpress in this thread http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=38966


Some bloke who can't even book a transfer, swiftly dealt with by a small company, but it hardly heralds the quantum shift of customer satisfaction handling to snowHeads.
ski holidays
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
abj wrote:
Forgot to say (just for the record) that I had travelled numerous times with the TO in advance of my own thread ... and have indeed travelled with the since.

Did the intervention of the MD make a difference to me sticking with them? Hard to say ... but it certainly showed good-will, and made that particular holiday less stressful.

Having said that, this particular thread seems to have started with a very different 'tone' - so probably/maybe not a fair comparison?


Exactly. Yours was an easy one to answer. But no company is going to openly debate the big issues on an independent, open chat forum. The most you'll ever get is someone saying, 'Sorry you've had bad time. Please get in touch and we'll sort it out.'
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
PJSki wrote:
alex_heney wrote:
PJSki, Chamexpress in this thread http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=38966


Some bloke who can't even book a transfer, swiftly dealt with by a small company, but it hardly heralds the quantum shift of customer satisfaction handling to snowHeads.


Nobody suggested it might.

Just an answer to your question.
ski holidays
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
OK, taking this to the next level and forgetting about all the biatchy type comments ....... the OP and the group have a complaint, were delayed and I presume, like most of us, would be looking for some form of compensation, which would be (1) reimbursement of costs, (2) 'good will' compensation for the distress etc

So, with respect to the OP situation, what is the loss she has suffered due to the actions of the TO

(1) is there any direct loss and expense to be reimburesed ?
has the OP actually incurred any expenses and is she out of pocket in all of this ? what would it take to put her (financially) back in the position had the default by the TO not occurred ? has the TO actually defaulted and if so would such items be covered by 'insurance' anyway ? Maybe one/two / lost day(s) on the holiday (together with ski pass/hire etc) would seem to be an insurance thing, extra cost for UK hotel, alternative flights, alternative transfers etc have been organised by TO. I seem to recall a taxi from the airport to the hotel, maybe some food bought at the airport in UK and Milan, but I am struggling to come up with much really.

and

(2) is any 'compensation' appropriate
has she lost any chance of this by posting in such a personal manner, i.e. is the TO likely to want to pay 'good will' money when they have clearly already 'lost the dressing room/powder parlour'
ski holidays
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
rayscoops, I think the OP is more concerned with the way this whole issue has been dealt with rather than any financial loss, though losing a days skiing would be a big loss to lots of us. Things go wrong, fact of life, but it was how the situation was handled is the issue IMO. She was their customer and their service left a lot to be desired, she has a right to point this out and I'm glad she has.
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
rayscoops, My thoughts as well, and I suspect the OP had the nonce and background experience to realise it as well. Hence she cut to the chase, dished the dirt in public without waiting for any dialogue from SB.
ski holidays
 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Shimmy Alcott, I beg to differ, probably compensation and an apology in equal measure perhaps ? Little Angel

pandora wrote:
We ask for explanations and compensation. We are refused both.

pandora wrote:
I will be making a claim on my insurance, but I will be writing to Ski Beat first, and giving them the oportunity to make amends. Not sure whether they will be interested though.

pandora wrote:
So the basic difference seems to be that we were treated like mushrooms by Ski Beat, while the Ski Esprit model .... handing out money and refreshment. Mollerski says each family on his trip (which I appreciate was a completely different trip) was compensated, and we were told by Ski Esprit holiday makers last week in Peisey that they had been given £100 per person, no quibbles.

pandora wrote:
Had they ......... said, 'sorry, we messed up in what were admittedly tricky circumstances, here's how we are going to make it up to you,' I would not still be feeling the urge to put across my story.
snow conditions
 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
rayscoops,
Quote:

taking this to the next level
Really? Looks to me like continuing to pick away obsessively at the OP's posts and motives.

This thread has gone past its sell-by date.
snow report
 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
rayscoops, Fair enough Laughing
ski holidays
 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
It seems to me that this much of this thread consists of:

1, An account of a terrible holiday experience by the OP
2, Attempts to put "the other side of the story" by PEOPLE WHO WERE NOT THERE.

Surely it is valid for snowheads to exist as a consumer forum and for it to do so then the very least respect that should be accorded to posters is that their stories should be beleived. The silence of SB is deafening here. What we have instead are snide comments by industry insiders, chalet owners, etc. We get to hear about their precious feelings. Well all I can say is that I'm glad I never had that sort of "holiday" when I had small children.

Frankly SB and their apologists are there to provide A SERVICE.

Hey guys if you want to express your emotions join a theatre group and shout, have a good old primal scream, take up painting, cut off your ears.........
Because frankly at present you are not using them to LISTEN to any sort of COMPLAINT.
ski holidays
 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Snowhereman, What did you expect. Its an internet forum, it isnt BBC watchdog
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Snowhereman wrote:

Surely it is valid for snowheads to exist as a consumer forum


It might be "valid" for it to exist as that, but it isn't what it actually ixists as, or has ever been intended to exist as.

Quote:

Frankly SB and their apologists are there to provide A SERVICE.


Which nobody has denied.

Quote:

Hey guys if you want to express your emotions join a theatre group and shout, have a good old primal scream, take up painting, cut off your ears.........
Because frankly at present you are not using them to LISTEN to any sort of COMPLAINT.


And why should they be using them to LISTEN to any sort of COMPLAINT? This is not an industry help line.

This is an internet discussion forum, nothing more.

Anybody is free to post whatever drivel they wish, and most of us do so.
ski holidays
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Snowhereman wrote:
... The silence of SB is deafening here.


Actually, that is not strictly true. But their contribution is not worth re-reading.
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It appears to be an internet forum dominated by a few men who appear to be too stupid to care whether a coach is being driven safely or not and are trying to bully and patronise a mum who has given what appears an honest account of her holiday.

Shame on Ski Beat for not having the courage to come on here and defend themselves/prove they are a decent company.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Ray Zorro - who is Ski Beat is it PJ Ski, the fat controller or Rayscoops?!! I'm going to call in Miss Marple to solve the mystery!
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 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
snowymum wrote:
It appears to be an internet forum dominated by a few men ...


Oy! I like to dominate here Toofy Grin

I'm afraid this is just an internet forum - I think I have yet to see anything posted that everyone else agreed with. If you post an opinion you can be sure that someone else will have a different view, that's people for you. Don't ever post expecting that all will fall into line behind you or you will be sorely disappointed.

Agreed everyone? Madeye-Smiley
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
cathy, there was one thread where everybody agreed, it was fairly recent, can't remember what it was...maybe the Sledging Riot PC?
snow conditions
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
There is not complete freedom. There are rules, which is why there is moderation. (And also it would be great if there was some mechanism by which the love affair between Goldsmith and PJSki could be moved to its own dedicated thread.)

My central point is that the central story has been given in believable detail. It has been corroborated by more than one poster. There has been no alternative account given by SB in its defence. The degree of outrage expressed seems consistent with the unpleasantness of the experience described. At the very least it is interesting subjective account, an enlightening story. I would like to read more such stories and would have thought that snowheads could be useful to many people as a consumer forum as well as fulfilling other roles.

But users will be put off posting negative stories if when they do unfounded aspersions are cast upon them by industry insiders.

They will of course be quite happy for you to continue to post drivel.
snow conditions
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Snowhereman wrote:
...it is valid for snowheads to exist as a consumer forum and for it to do so then the very least respect that should be accorded to posters is that their stories should be beleived. ....


Why?? You are very naive rolling eyes
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
snowymum, guess again. (and no - it isn't me).

Snowhereman, I am guessing you are not in a job where you deal with the public - or you would be aware that complaints frequently are believable and sound justified until you explore a little deeper and are found to be unwarranted. The transfer complaint story linked to on the previous page is an example. It would be wrong for this forum to indulge in a frenzied hysterical kicking of a company just on the say so of 2 people, one of whom only appears to have registered to support the OP.

SB are - I believe - aware of this thread, and their failure to post overtly and acknowledge a cock-up suggests either they accept they did wrong, or they are waiting for this all to blow over. Once again, Pandora has not told us whether she has made a formal complaint or not.

Lastly - this is a discussion forum not an offshoot of Watchdog. The quality of the discussion is sometimes good, sometimes poor, sometimes downright awful. Neither you nor I get to define what is discussed and how it is discussed. If you want to improve the quality by adding something substantive feel free. If you don't like the discussion feel free to look elsewhere, or go and stroke a kitten or do something nice.

This really is very tame.If you want to see how awful folks on the internet can be in ripping other posters to pieces, I'll give you a link to PPRUNE - where a bunch of people with the same job as Pandora rip apart a cabin crew witness of an incident where a pilot probably got it wrong. Toofy Grin
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