 Poster: A snowHead
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After a painful experience learning to snowboard, have decided to stick to skiing. We are therefore looking to replace our skis with some brand spanking new all mountain ones.
We mainly ski on piste but want to be able to go off piste if the mood takes us.
Have narrowed the search down to K2 lotta luv or Fischer Koa 78 for me and the K2 Apache recons or Fischer Wateas for TFC.
Any thoughts or other suggestions?
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brian
brian
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Stockli Stormrider XL, XXL or VXL in ascending order of time away from the piste.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Head Great ones for the womens and prophet 90s for the mens
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Depends how good you are on skis, but the one's you've suggested sound spot on from intermediate with attitude and up. Lotta is a bit stiffer than Koa; same goes for Recon v Watea (if that's a 78 or 84 - the 94 is a bit of a gun).
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Does stiffer mean harder to turn? Or would a 'solid' man like TFC benefit from a stiffer ski and me (petite) be better off with a softer ski?
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Dynastar Sultan 80's or Sultan 85's, without a doubt.
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How about Elan Magfire 78 or 82's Ti's or non-Ti's. Haven't skied them yet, but they get good reviews and are supposed to go off piste with their wider width.
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Consider Scott Crusade for TFC. I really liked them when I skied them for 4 days in Tignes last month.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Volkl AC range, really great on piste, but up to the job off piste too.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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thefatcontroller, Dunno can't claim to be that at the moment  Lovely skis though, I was surprised at how good they are on piste even at 90mm under foot. Our off piste escapades were spoiled by a near blizzard but they seemed to cope pretty well. Well worth a try.
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mrsfatcontroller, (in my experience) the stiffer skis are less forgiving, take more effort to carve but can be more fun because they seem to pop out of the turns. The softer skis are easier to carve and more relaxing. I've found Dynastar fairly soft and the Volkls stiff. The men will tell you that Dynastar don't make soft skis but I think the womens' are - they just haven't tried womens' skis.  The Fischer Koa 84 seems to have had better write ups than the 78. I'm off to Lech on the 24th and I'm going to try some Stöckli skis. Having said that, my Völkl piste skis cope admirably in bumps and aren't too bad off piste - but I think there must be better.
If you find a good all mountain ski, please let me know.
(Sorry - complete woman's drivel)
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You know it makes sense.
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I tested a few all mountain skis over the years and I eventually bought the K2 Apache Recon (presumably the women's version is the K2 Lotta Luv that you mentioned?).
I found that the problem with a lot of all mountain skis was that they were a bit boring on hard packed pistes (eg. Rossignol Bandit). From my experience, the K2 Recon strikes a really good balance between carving on piste and other all-mountain territories (powder, bumps and variables).
There's a lot of personal preferences in choosing skis so I can't recommend them universally. When I tested the Recons after skiing on softer all-mountain skis, it took me a few hours to get used to them. The Recons are quite heavy and stiff so you need to be quite strong and athletic. So I'd only recommend them to fit advanced skiers.
Because of personal flavour and style, I would really recommend you rent them out before buying. For example, my skiing buddy didn't like the Recon at all but loved the Bandits. You just don't know until you try them out. You can usually rent the Recon pretty much all over the Alps and rental shops in ski resorts will usually let you test them before buying. It's an expensive way to shop but definitely worth while.
Good luck
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Booty, We are going in March and intend to rent a few before buying in end of season sales. There are so many to choose from that I'm trying to narrow it down before we go to what we could possibly rent and what will also be affordable to buy! It will probably be a choice of rossignol or K2 as I'm not sure I've seen any Fischer skis in the rental shop.
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Poster: A snowHead
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We bought skis in Meribel a few years back. The shop let us test a number of skis over 2 days and then we made our decision. Didn't have to pay for rental or anything! 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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CarlT, We have thought of this but £ to euro rate is very much against us. Our apartment in in Arc 2000 and we looked at prices there in January so we could benchmark when we got back. Skis we can get here for £450ish were 700 euro in resort. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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mrsfatcontroller, Kitty skis on Stockli Stormrider XL, they go pretty much anywhere and have fantastic edge grip and performance on piste.
She also has a pair of HEAD Peak 73, bought primarily for teaching in the fridge, but are surprisingly versatile. HEAD say they're 50/50. I have friends that have skied the in the mountains in all conditions and rave about them.
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mrsfatcontroller, of all the ladies skis I tried on demo at various snowdomes this season, Fischer Koa 78 were my favourites. Followed by Scott Rosa and Rossignol Attraxtion 6.
The comment about personal preference is really valid. Some people raved about K2, but I didn't like them at all. They felt clumpy, sluggish and heavy. The Scotts were probably too wide for me in reality as I'm a piste only skier, but they felt lovely, smooth and responsive at Hemel. The Rossignols were also smooth, fast and stable with just that extra ability to perform tighter turns. Following them I tried Rossignol Bandits and didn't like them anywhere near as much. I tried the Fischers at Tamworth and they coped amazingly well with ice patches, general hardpack and the wet clumps that form indoors. I love a ski that flatters my skiing in all conditions.
I ended up buying a secondhand pair of Rossignol Attraxion 6 from a fellow snowhead due to budgetary constraints and I'm very happy. They felt even better last weekend on real snow at Another World.
I guess I'm saying my advice is try the skis on your shortlist and maybe a couple more besides. You'll be amazed at how different they can feel and you'll soon know which you like best.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Spyderman, Having problems finding stockli skis in this country but in US prices are over $1000 so a bit over budget!
Thinking of going to a fridge to test some skis but can you really tell much from testing skis on an artificial slope??
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mrsfatcontroller, I'm a petite woman with limited experience of skis as I bought some in my first season. I tried a pair of Movement Spicy skis for a week last season. It was spring, so the conditions were ice or slush. They seemed to be soft compared to the Salomons I had the week before. In fact, they were forgiving and easy to ski. I own Icelantic Pilgrims and although you have to put in a little more effort to edge on hard pistes they are fantastic on everything else. I've now skied them in a number of conditions (hard pistes, icey pistes, slush, powder and crud) and have grown very attached to them. Graphics aren't to my taste but then I'm not looking at the graphics when I'm skiing 
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| mrsfatcontroller wrote: |
Spyderman, Having problems finding stockli skis in this country but in US prices are over $1000 so a bit over budget!
Thinking of going to a fridge to test some skis but can you really tell much from testing skis on an artificial slope?? |
Here's the UK Importers, give them a call: http://en.stoeckli.ch/main/partners_international/europe/united_kingdom/
You're welcome to try Kitty's at Hemel.
I think you can tell a lot about a ski from it's first impression. The only one's not worth really trying in a fridge are Big Mountain powder skis.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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mrsfatcontroller, I've moved from Head iXRC 800s (stiff and heavy unisex ski, but rewarding - with some aggression - on piste) to Dynastar Exclusive Legends, which are a women's all mountain ski and quite light, as erica2004 says. Much easier all round and I like them a lot.
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Just back from a wee trip and tried the following.
Watea 78s - very disappointed, couldn't put my finger on it exactly but didn't float my boat - perhaps my expectations were too high.
K2 Apache - same size virtually as the above, they felt in a different league, much easier to ski on, and coped with some steep moguls and minor fresh unpisted stuff.
Movement Jams - my 3rd go on them, these are the best skis I have ever skied on. 84 underfoot but easier to get on the rail than either of the above.
I would recommend anyone looking for any sort of 40/60, 50/50 or 60/40 ski to give these a blast.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Fifespud, interesting. My brother has a pair of Yaka Jams (last years version still at 85mm waist). They carve great on piste but I don't think they are very good off piste - too turny, relatively stiff and they sink. On the other hand I tried the Fischer Watea 78 at the beginning of the season and despite having a narrower waist it was better off piste (tested at relatively slow speeds). Suspect it's because it's softer so floats better. I'd say the Jams's are more of an 80/20 ski. If you're really spending 50% of your time off piste I would be going towards 100mm waist.
mrsfatcontroller, My wife moved from K2 Lotta Luv to Dynastar Exclusive Legend Powders (85mm waist). While the Lotta Luv's are good on piste they are heavy and damped which makes them hard to manoeuvre off piste. She made a step improvement in her off piste ability simply changing the skis. A female friend with K2 Spicy really likes those both on and off piste.
Stockli make quite a lot of stiffer skis but they do a range called the Rotor which was superb. They used to do a 70mm and 76mm version. This year it is 72mm and 74mm. The wider versions are park skis and are much softer. Stockli skis are expensive though and not readily available outside Switzerland.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Fifespud wrote: |
Just back from a wee trip and tried the following.
Watea 78s - very disappointed, couldn't put my finger on it exactly but didn't float my boat - perhaps my expectations were too high.
K2 Apache - same size virtually as the above, they felt in a different league, much easier to ski on, and coped with some steep moguls and minor fresh unpisted stuff. |
Interesting... my experience was only in the ChillFactore and with the big brothers (Watea 84 and K2 Xplorer) but I agree exactly about them both:
Watea - can't say why but it just felt wrong for me, couldn't wait to change them
Xplorer - a blast, really hope I can give these a try in the wild next week
Since that test I had Sultan 80s for a week of mixed conditions over New Year - really impressed with them too.
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| bobinch wrote: |
Fifespud, interesting. My brother has a pair of Yaka Jams (last years version still at 85mm waist). They carve great on piste but I don't think they are very good off piste - too turny, relatively stiff and they sink. On the other hand I tried the Fischer Watea 78 at the beginning of the season and despite having a narrower waist it was better off piste (tested at relatively slow speeds). Suspect it's because it's softer so floats better. I'd say the Jams's are more of an 80/20 ski. If you're really spending 50% of your time off piste I would be going towards 100mm waist.
mrsfatcontroller, My wife moved from K2 Lotta Luv to Dynastar Exclusive Legend Powders (85mm waist). While the Lotta Luv's are good on piste they are heavy and damped which makes them hard to manoeuvre off piste. She made a step improvement in her off piste ability simply changing the skis. A female friend with K2 Spicy really likes those both on and off piste.
Stockli make quite a lot of stiffer skis but they do a range called the Rotor which was superb. They used to do a 70mm and 76mm version. This year it is 72mm and 74mm. The wider versions are park skis and are much softer. Stockli skis are expensive though and not readily available outside Switzerland. |
Bobinch you may well have a point. TBH I am an improving skier, the first day skiing as a group we were mainly on piste and I was disappointed with the Wateas. The next 2 days we were mainly off piste and I am so mediocre that I cant really tell if its the ski or me, as you say the Jam is surprisingly good on piste, I suppose I just assumed with 84 waist would make them reasonable off piste as well, and my face planting was solely down to my lack of ability!
Take on board the previous point about the Jams being possibly 80/20.
Bobinch, I am heading out to the 4V in a couple of weeks - what if the itinary from the bottom of Lac de Vaux which takes you down to Tzoumaz like?
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You know it makes sense.
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Fifespud, it is called the Vallon d'Arbi and is a great run, although the main route does get tracked quite quickly as the access is easy. As you drop down below the Lac de Vaux you follow a track round the contour of the mountain to the Col des Mines where you can either drop pop over and down directly to Verbier or drop right in the direction of La Tzoumaz. The La Tzoumaz route starts with a nice wide powder field which then narrows into quite a steep bowl (there is also an easier track on the right). At the bottom you join a scenic track through the woods which meets up with the La Tzoumaz piste. At the Col des Mines we usually traverse hugging the left hand side of the big bowl which leaves you above the narrow exit. If you head straight over the ridge from here you can traverse as far as you like to the left which opens up a lovely face dotted with trees. The trees and sheltered aspect usually keep the snow in great condition for a few days after fresh snow.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| bobinch wrote: |
| Fifespud, it is called the Vallon d'Arbi and is a great run, although the main route does get tracked quite quickly as the access is easy. As you drop down below the Lac de Vaux you follow a track round the contour of the mountain to the Col des Mines where you can either drop pop over and down directly to Verbier or drop right in the direction of La Tzoumaz. The La Tzoumaz route starts with a nice wide powder field which then narrows into quite a steep bowl (there is also an easier track on the right). At the bottom you join a scenic track through the woods which meets up with the La Tzoumaz piste. At the Col des Mines we usually traverse hugging the left hand side of the big bowl which leaves you above the narrow exit. If you head straight over the ridge from here you can traverse as far as you like to the left which opens up a lovely face dotted with trees. The trees and sheltered aspect usually keep the snow in great condition for a few days after fresh snow. |
Sounds magic. In terms of difficulty how does it compare to Tortin? Are you like to find more powder/untracked rather than the Tortin bumps?
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Hurtle wrote: |
| mrsfatcontroller, I've moved from Head iXRC 800s (stiff and heavy unisex ski, but rewarding - with some aggression - on piste) to Dynastar Exclusive Legends, which are a women's all mountain ski and quite light, as erica2004 says. Much easier all round and I like them a lot. |
Forgot that Kitty has a pair of Exclusive Legends too. They were her main go anywhere skis before she got the Stockli XL. Really good off piste and on, as long as it wasn't rock hard.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Spyderman,
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as long as it wasn't rock hard
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hehe, must admit I thought all my teeth were going to fall out, when I hit a patch of thinly disguised corrugated iron in Meribel last week. But the skis and the teeth just about hung on in there!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Just back from Les Arc. Found it very difficult to find skis to test as I'm only 5ft 1 and most of the skis I wanted to test were too long.
Day 1 Volkl. Don't know which ones but were the only ski they had that day for my height. Felt that they were too short and not very stable at speed.
Day 2 Rossi Bandits. Would have bought these until I tried the Dynastar exc legends on Day 3. These were much lighter and easier to turn.
Also on Day 3 I tried some Zai Tilas - hand made skis- $3000. perfect length, stiffness, everything except cost!!! Apparently I skied really well on them too. But sadly, I won't be buying as I'd really like a new kitchen and I can't have both!!
Day 4 Rossignol Attraxion VI- hated these and I can't say why but it could be down to the fact that I was shattered, my thighs and knees had given up and I was skiing like a baby giraffe.
So the winners are Dynastar Legends. The ones I tested were 158cm but I think I'll buy the 152s as I like making short turns so that length may suit my style of skiing.
thefatcontroller, tried a different ski every day too but really couldn't tell the difference between any of them. So I have suggested that we just strap him to a couple of planks of wood and spend more money on me- that way I can have the Zai skis
Thank you all for your suggestions.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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mrsfatcontroller, Which Dyna Legends? Im guessing 8000's or 4800?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Like wot Mrs Higs had last week and at New Year. And really liked.
It's rare Mrs Higs comments on her skis. She's a better (more natural) skier than me and is happiest pootling about skiing 'below' her ability. She's not bothered with her own skis since the kids and just rucks up, rents a pair, skis around on them and hands them back these days so it's rare that she'll come out (unprompted) with "I really like these skis". And she's said it more than once.
A better man than me would put his hand in his pocket.
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| Fifespud wrote: |
Sounds magic. In terms of difficulty how does it compare to Tortin? Are you like to find more powder/untracked rather than the Tortin bumps? |
Absolutely! Tortin itinerary gets skied out within an hour of a dump. Vallon d'Arbi stays good for days if you do the traverse. It's best when it's closed but you have to be careful of avalanches onto the track or the snowplough clearing them... I've been down there twice this week when it was formally closed and both times there were Verbier mountain guides with clients on it.
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Another vote for Dynastar Legends. Preggers has the 85mm legend powders and loved them as a light manoeuvrable offpiste ski. I bet all the skis in that lineup are top class.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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mrsfatcontroller, O/H has the Dynastar Exclusives and loves them. She had demo'd various skis including the fischer Koa 78's which she also liked.
She tested skis in Tignes before buying. Incidentally they would have been 499euros in february in resort.Yet i found some 158s here in the UK for £330. 
ps. Another vote for K2 recons. Good all-round skis.
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FAQ
