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Kids ski clubs - level of commitment at various ages - thoughts and musings?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
So we are Brits who have been in Calgary 2 years. This year we have put our 7 1/4 yr old son and just 5 yr old daughter in a race club at Nakiska. Daughter is in a 4 and 5 yr old bit and its going really well. Son is in a 6 to 7 year old bit - Nancy Greene Introductory and its going less well.

The reason is, he's a pretty good skier and he is currently in the top group of 5 kids (around 40 kids at this level) and he has two snow ploughers/stem turners in his group that are slowing it right up at anything other than very gentle pitches. There is a 3rd kids barely parralleling and a 4th who is pretty good. We had hoped he would learn from his peers as well as his intructor and have his natural enthusiasm spurred on by the others, rather than dampened as is the case. He is the best skier in his group. So I spoke to the coach, who confirmed he is the best by a long way, not realising he was in the top group, and expecting them to move him up, to be told there is no solution as its the top group. So I spoke to the Director who did give some valuable comments (he's pretty good and savy) but the solution presented was we could have chosen Nancy Green Development (for 7 and 8 yr olds) if he's good and we are serious about skiing, and that therefore is on offer to us now. He did say he would still learn off the coach and would still get individual tips.

The issue seems to be that the locals don't really ski with their kids, they get them to a basic level and then shove them into clubs, so a lot of the kids had their first day the first day of the club, whereas by then my son had done 8 days. We had thought the standard at club level skiing would be way higher, which is why we didn't enroll him earlier (last year).

So the NGI is a Sunday from 9:30am to 3:30pm with 45 mins lunch (they also run it on sats for a different group of kids).

The NGD is 9:30am to 3:30pm two days a weekend, and the crux is we feel that's a bit much. We both like to see our son, do other stuff, other sports (he is sports mad and his sister seems to love ice skating) , do stuff as a family and ski away when possible. I think to spend a whole season doing two days a weekend without your family age 7 is a little excessive. Remember this is our life, not our vacation, and we do have friends to see, other commitments etc. Nakiska is 50mins drive away. Two days a weekend would mean splitting up on saturdays and two of us remaining in Calgary, two going to the hill.

From what I understand developing future racers is all about time on slope, hence they offer the 24 days on slope for the 7-8yr olds. But is that necessary when our son, doing one day in club, would get around 28 days a year (averaged this last year and previous year). Is our time spent with him at different hills, different terrain, in the park etc not equivalent to time in club?

I guess we wouldn't want to do anything that would prevent him becoming a racer if that is his choice later (although given the level of commitment I don't think it would be my choice for our family), so are we doing him a disservice by not signing him for NGD? I think holistically (to develop all round as a human) 'no', but I honestly don't know for skiing. My gut feeling says 24 days in club is too much age 8, especially when chances of being a racer beyond K1 are pretty slim, and especially as he does get the hill time elsewhere in the season.

Whatever goes on this year, the issue re-raises itself for next year, when he is 8. We have two options if he wants to stay in club skiing;
1. enroll in NGD at our club doing 24 sessions;or
2. enroll in another club doing 12 on hill weekend days and 8 evening sessions at COP (Canada Olympic Park- think small hill with rubbish snow in Calgary, but nonetheless skiing, trying out bits in terrain park and gate skiing). Number 2 sounds much more palatable to me, but our club seems to think its not enough.

Of course after that its around 40ish days on hill with club for 9 and 10 yr olds. Whislt I understand that if unsuccessful at racing they will have gained other skills, skiing and life skills etc I wonder what penalty that is to family life?

So what are all your racing kids doing, at what age and for how long, how many snow days etc.

Gryphea
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I read all the way through thinking 'is there not something you can do at COP' and it turns out there is. Shorter drive, too Wink

He might be a bit young but you should ask him what he wants to do, or have a talk with him about skiing in general and try and get something from that.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Yup, we will ask him. But generally he is not able to see the big picture that well!!!!!

Ask him if he wants to be a ski racer- the answer is yes. Ask him if he wants to be a rugby player/ football player/hockey player/basketball player etc and its yes. Plus a whole load of sports he hasn't yet tried!!!

I guess we like skiing because it is something we can all do together (but not if he never skis with us!!)
and share a passion.
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gryphea, our experience is not directly comparable as we live in the UK and largely train in a dome! I'd say that unless he was dead keen, for me it'd be just too much time and hassle to go to NGD. I'd also guess that the amount of skiing would be overkill for that age - lots of high level racers didn't even start until they were 10. Second thing I'd say is that unless you are an experienced racer/instructor yourself, if your kids continue in these programmes, you'll very soon have to forget about actually skiing about with them!
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
slikedges,
So what level of training does your child do in a dome?

Good last point..........
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gryphea, minis, 2 hours twice weekly Laughing
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
gryphea, do parents from Calgary not carpool for the kids going out? I say go for the next level up at Nakiska, you'll soon find out if he's not liking it.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
I think there's a lot of evidence from Europe that kids who train hard young are not those who succeed. The ones who do are those who learn ski skills young but also get involved in other sports as well, concentrating on skiing only when they mature as teenagers.

The question is what are you trying to achieve out of the ski sessions? It it's to be an Olympic athlete then definately don't put them in 2 days a week , it won't work. If it's to be the best 10 yr old then it still probably won't work, they really need other development that they can't get skiing to back it up, soccer, tennis, gymnastics. If it's because it what suits your family best at the present time, then go for it.

Our kids in domes, or even like ours on 80m plastic slopes get some superb training and reach great levels - look out for Dave Ryding this winter, he's a plastic slope skier. We watched the race club at Panorama, the kids there were well below the standard of the British minis of the same age, the 2 hours twice a week (that's more than most as well) here is very successful. If you go for Calgary Hill on a regular basis they really should get a lot out of it.
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arv,

Have no idea whether they do. We don't know anyone in the program. The kids come off the hill for 45 mins lunch and have to be picked up for lunch and dropped off after by parents. As my son carries an epipen I don't really feel we can just send him off with random slightly unknown parent. Plus some of these days are really cold and its kind of important to make sure children are really dressed properly, again not sure if I would trust said random parent. They would say 'put on your face mask' he would say ' do I have to?' and they maybe wouldn't push it.

He would definately say he would like it, but he's not really able to see the big picture! He also likes seeing his friends, playing other sports and all the other things we do.
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Jane L,

Haven't really thought it through. We signed him up as he wanted to do it as he sees the older racers, because he needed lessons and this seemed like a sensible, very economic way of doing it and because he needed to ski with his peers. Both our kids respond to getting to know instructors and keeping the same one (which can be tricky in ski schools here). He is also sports mad and it seems sensible to put him in a sport we all do.

Two days a weekend seems totally excessive to me, especially when we ski out side of this (going to Panorama for Family weekend - equivalent of half-term). Think next year we will move clubs, or he says he would be interested in a bumps and jumps course at COP. It partly depends on our daughter and what/where she will do.

Our kids started out in a dome (Lions at Castleford) and it was positive experience that has set them up well. That is partly why I was surprised at the standard in the race club. But then two hours twice a week all year is probably a fairly good starter!
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gryphea, doesn't Nakiska offer anything like Fernie in the sense of weekend clubs that aren't orientated towards racing? Can he do one of the two days of NGD?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I won't try to tell you what to do, but I'll offer a little experience from here in Norway.

My lad is 8 now and has this is his third season training and racing with the local club. The season before that was just a one day a week beginners ski school to get him started, but as he obviously loved skiing more than anything else in the whole wide world we signed him up with the club.

He trains twice a week, Tuesday and Thursday for 90 mins at the local hill. Mostly GS gates and freeskiing drills - probably some SL too this year. He was top 5 in his races last year, including joint 3rd at Kvitfjell with competitors from the whole country. So he's pretty good, but there are other 8 y.o's out there with much better technique and probably a much tougher attitude to training in their home environment (typically those with older siblings already succeeding in racing). Most weekends during the season there's a race on - we try to do the local ones and just pick out one or two of the big events to have a fun weekend away with his peers.

From September until the racing program gets crammed in February the club runs camps away from home most weekends, but not all are suited to 8 y.o's. Participation is totally up to the kids and their parents - again, we pick out one or two where we know lots of kids the same age will be going and forget about the rest.

At the moment he kind of believes he could be the next Aksel Lund Svindal, but maybe for the UK rather than Norway - he can choose and we assume there are far more kids trying to get through the eye of the Norwegian needle than the UK one (despite the population difference Wink) While I don't want to pump him full of false hope, I'd hate to discourage him from trying. Right now one of his close friends has leap frogged past him, having attended several camps with his brother and gotten a lot of individual feedback from the coaches. I think Harald can see that, and the first race of the season tomorrow may or may not prove this true. The question is how he will react to that - with a shrug, with despondency, or with renewed determination. I guess I'm hoping for something between a shrug and determination - I'd like him to understand that you pay your dues to get to the top, but that the top isn't SO important this year, next year or the year after that.... the goal is to ski well and have fun. The fact that he wants to stay on for 90mins after training (that's as much slack as Dad will cut him with respect to bedtime!) and can't imagine a weekend without skiing seems to indicate that the plan is working.

Total snow days? About 50 (avg. 3 days a week from Christmas to Easter, 6 days at half term ++) Our hill is 10mins away, and I'm almost always on skis whenever, wherever he is (unless I'm in the lodge with a coffe chinwagging with the other lunatic parents Wink).
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
DaveC,

He has done two years of Nakiska offerings. They are expensive (of course though not as expensive as racing once you are ten , when 3 pairs of skis are recommended) in 6 week blocks and the quality of instruction is mixed, as is the quality of the participants. Plus this year their 6 week block includes family day, which we go away for (was to be Fernie but I booked too late and was priced off hill so Panorama this year) . A 12 week program with them (for which we know we would miss one already) for two hours a week is the same price as the race club , for a day for 13 weeks , when we know we can meet them (excepting sickness). The quality of instrcution does seem good in the race club.

WE will find out on Sunday whther he can do one of the two days NGD, I guess it depends on their coach to student ratio in the anticiapted group- They can't go above their max, 7 to 1. Having observed lots of groups on the hill I don't think they are near their max- but we will see. One day of NGD would be a good option for us and we would be happy to throw in the occasional extra day.

How is your season going?
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
squawker,

Thanks very much for your post, very useful and informative. Interesting to get another country's perspective. At the NGD level they still actually only race a small % of the time, and train on gates a small %. SOunds like they do much more formal race training in Norway.

This is our club page if you are interested, http://www.skinasa.org/.

One issue is we also have our daughter to think about, realistically she spends half her life trailing round after her brother and his various activities, and she is currently into ice skating, which OK she'll never be olympic champion at but that seems no reason to discourage her. This takes place on a saturday, and so would mean splitting the family up if we go for the two day option. We aren't really sure that is what we want to do. Not sure doing different stuff for half the weekend is what is good for a family. What I don't want to do is choose which child gets to be given a chance in what they want to do, so I don't want to rule out options for him, just want to know whether by only going one day we are ruling out options, or it doesn't matter, or the opposite as it cuts down on his other sport time, which has been shown to be important as Jane L says.

Thanks very much
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
DaveC,

PS the place for non race club is Lake Louise which offers the Bow Valley Kids program which is apparently very good

The other issue with Nakiska is we don't really want to spend 2 days a week there. Whilst its good for what it is, it doesn't really hold the appeal of resorts that get better snow. Still at least you get good at ice skiing!

Of course I have told OH we could solve it by buying ourselves a place in Fernie....................
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Just thought I would post an update.

So son has got keener and keener as season wore on. The club has restructured its programs and having spoken to parents with kids at other clubs, we think we will stick with our club next year . He will do a program that alternates between 2 days and 1 day at the weekends. It has one complete weekend a month at Sunshine, and they will offer my daughter who is two years younger a roving programme to accomodate him. The programme starts early December

We think this is a better balance and we will probably may a day a month to give us family time. We are going to try and save our readies so we can stay in Banff or at Delta Lodge Kananaskis on the full weekends so it all seems like less rigmorole, leaving the house at 7:30ish on both weekend mornings seems a bit much.
Staying at hotels will give us a bit more family time.

There will also be race weekends away(LL, Castle for sure)

Still no place in Fernie...........................
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