Package holiday? never again....

A snowHead

Does anyone know whether you can buy flights only to Innsbruck, or can you only fly there from UK on a package?

Austrian Arrows are shown as running a scheduled service LGW-Innsbruck, but when we investigated nearly a year in advance for half term this year, there was no availability, which suggests it is block booked by package companies.

A snowHead

You can, but they're pricey and few (so I'm told). Several flights have recently been removed from the timetable.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I feel I must stick up for the tour operators and their Reps. The reason the transfer coaches leave early is twofold; trying to get out of the Tarentaise after 9am is usually hellish and also some time has to be allowed for unexpected delays (traffic, people being sick, toilet stops, accidents, etc). I can understand people with children having a bad time with airport delays but for anyone else all you need is the ability to not get stressed and perhaps a good book. A lot of people seem to delight in making their travel time as stressful and miserable as possible. I enjoy the opportunity to switch off for a few hours.
Over the last few years I have driven to the Alps on numerous occasions but I have also travelled with tour operators (Silver Ski, Simply Ski, Crystal, First Choice) and not had any problems. Try treating the Rep with a bit of respect rather than always thinking they are out to do you. Contrary to what someone said earlier the Rep is definitely not on holiday, you would be surprised what hard work it can be.

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I have always treated reps with decency, if not actual respect (after all, I hardly know them), when I've seen them. The problem is that their job has become that of a salesman, not that of a knowledgeable and helpful chum. I understand that they have targets to meet and may rely on commission, but having someone hanging around whose main aim is to sell you things is not what you want. It is difficult to have confidence in someone who wants to part you from your cash.

I haven't had any problems with reps because I have very little (usually nothing) to do with them. Going to the same resort 6 years in a row helps, but i don't find much difficulty in getting what I want in new resorts without any help from a rep.

Last year the only contact we had with the rep was when he rang a couple of times to check that all was well. We had a contact number for him had we needed anything. That's exactly what I want from a rep.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

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Many years ago we were skiing in Cervinia. We'd taken the 'drive out' option, so didn't have the pleasure of meeting the rep at the airport, and just checked into the hotel by ourselves. As we weren't on the transfer coach, we didn't get to know of the 'welcome party' so the rep didn't catch up with us there, didn't need to hire equipment, so didn't go to the rep's favourite ski shop, and so on.

Next day, we found a note from the rep, giving their contact details. Same the next day, and then the next - the notes getting increasingly panicky! Finally the rep caught us over breakfast one day - and seemed a little put out that we hadn't needed their help and shocked that we could look after ourselves.

But I agree that reps can be useful sometimes, but they need to understand that some people like doing it themselves.

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After all it is free

richmond, Agree entirely, we had similar experience with rep from Erna Low. Optimum contact and phone numbers if problem. Could meet him in smoke filled bar or he would visit you if needed. No selling was his third year in resort knew everything and people knew him.

boredsurfin, I had the same from Erna Low as well. I got to my appartment and there was a note with her phone number on it. I had pre-booked my lift-pass and after a couple of minutes wait she turned up and I got my pass and that was that. I think I bumped into her and she asked if everything was OK. Never tried to sell me anything and not a fondue night or torchlight descent in sight!

I also had very good experience with the reps from Snowbizz. Me and my friend arrived at our appartment and found that the electric didn't work. Tracked the reps down to the bar, bought them a beer and they sorted it out. Landed up playing pictionary in the bar with a couple of them later in the week. Rather more drinking buddies than reps. Bumped into one of them in Grenoble later in the same winter and she remembered my name.

So some are good but usually only with the smaller companies.

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They can be excellent sources of information. If you have never visited the resort before, they can save you time finding out where the ski rental place is, good bars to go to etc. You have been in the resort for an hour, they have been there for a season or more. They may be there to sell things to you, but remember, you don't have to buy!! I would never pick a package holiday for this reason though. There's always someone around you can ask for information - ski instructor, other skiers, hoteliers etc.

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

I found the selling aspect to be the most frustrating aspect of being a rep. We were well aware that most clients weren't that interested in being bombarded with this but it was something that the company judged you on.

In my last season we used to make most of our money from running a daytrip to Serre Chevalier once a week (I was in Deux Alpes). Since Serre Che is my favourite resort I found it easy to be enthusiastic about a day's skiing there. Nearly everyone used to enjoy the trip and I think everyone benefitted - we and the company made commission and the clients had a coach or minibus laid on for a pretty good price (plus free guiding if they wanted). The money we made here also meant we could go easy on selling other stuff and so it made for a more relaxed week all round.

Other stuff - lift passes, equipment, ski lessons etc - can be fairly easily organised yourself but some people prefer not to be hassled with it. I guess this number will continue to decrease and whether there is a core number of people who will always prefer a package remains to be seen. I imagine that some people will always prefer to have a rep service - my girlfriend (boss at the time, now wife!) used to accompany clients to the doctors, retrieve equipment from the pisteurs, go to ski shops to help buy boots and skis etc. None of this was to make any profit and probably most people on here would be happy to do this on their own. But some people like the support a rep can provide.

The internet has probably made the role of information provider a lot less relevant.

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I love Package holidays, ive said it before and I stand by it! When we were growing up we never went on package deals, always went out to the villa instead. Now were making up for lost time, we LIKE having things to do, going on excursions and trips etc, doing the tacky cheesy options, we've always had a fantastic time and the reps we had in Arinsal 2 years ago with Panorama were absolutely fantastic! Thoroughly helpful, fun and cheery!

Sometimes things dont go the way you want and its annoying (ie changing the airport!) but thats life, its not like they cancelled the trip, so all in all package deals are ok!

Example of a useful rep. Met us at the airport checked us on to a prompt and well organised coach. Went through all 50 odd on the bus and took details of their lift pass requirements, and any other needs. The rep then phoned through all the lift pass details to resort so that when we arrived our lift passes and complimentary after 3pm passes were available. In resort they helped with gear hiire, we had a disabled child wit us and they offered lifts in a mini bus, spoke to ski school and booked restaurants on our behalf, basically looked after us. The staff even stood outside the chalet and waved at us as we rounded the corners up to La Plagne. Silver Ski if you are interested. In a word they were invaluable.

You know it makes sense.

Frosty the Snowman, which TO did these outstanding people work for?

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

richmond,

A snowHead

Sorry, Frosty the Snowman. I read it twice, but still didn't see it.

A snowHead

richmond, Happens to me all the time, and more often as I get older Embarassed

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

A few years ago in Courchevel, we missed part of the first morning's skiing after entrusting the rep to buy our ski passes - he then overslept and failed to get in ahead of the ticket office queues, and didn't show up until after 10.00am, by which time kids had missed the start of ski school. Bladon Lines haven't had any business from me since.

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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

I mostly go independent nowadays (and frequently drive), but there is one benefit of a package when things go wrong - it's the job of the TO, not you alone, to get you to/from the resort. On my last trip, the holiday was without travel and the flight was booked independently (although through the same booking agent). When Swiss eventually got me to Sion Airport, SEVEN HOURS late, all public transport had long packed up for the night, so I ended up forking out on a £90 taxi fare to get me to Grimentz. By coincidence though, I was following on with another week at the other end of Switzerland, for which transfers were using a Swiss Transit Pass - which thus saved me a £60 train fare I expected to have to pay, and I also got another unexpected bonus which meant I was actually up on the deal, so I'm less agrieved than I would have been otherwise.

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GrahamN,

As you say

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Jane, Not sure where you live in the SW, but a friend recently came over having got a dirst cheap seat from Newquay to Stansted with easyjet then over to Grenoble - beats driving up the M5/4.

After all it is free

A couple of points re TO's reps etc. The last 2 trips we took, 1 with Neilson. 1 with INghams. The neilson trip we were given details of welcome meeting etc on the coach (it actually happened 1.5 hours before we arrived in resort. The rep never attempted to contact us again until the details for the return journey were put under the door on the last night (Again hours before we needed to depart, the flight was 1pm or later, the journey to the aiport 1.5hrs. we left at 7am)
The Ingham's trip was to Banff , we opted for the car hire, and arrived at least 30 mins before the transfer coach. The rep was incredulous, and insisted we'd broken speed limits etc. She then tried to sell us adult lift passes for the children, which we promptly declined,also refused her ski hire package. She then slagged off the shop we'd hired from already (at a much better price). On the return to Calgary, the coach for our flight was leaving at 1.30 , just as we headed off for a nice lunch beofre our trip home. We stopped off at the Olympic ski area on the way for a coffee, and still arrived at the airport with 3 hours to spare. Also, we had booked a double and a twin room and found that our gangly teens had to share a very small double bed. her only suggestion to sorting this out was for us (at our own expense) to go and buy an airbed and the hotel would provide us with extra bedding, or pay $1500CA to move to the hotel next door. Apparently it was against fire regs to supply us with anohter bed, but was OK if we bought it ourselves. I'm afraid (or rather relieved) thATt that was our last package trip.

That's funny Helen - we went to Lake Louise with Inghams. We hired a car too and like you, found it a great relief at the end of the trip because everyone else had to get a very early coach back to the airport. Other than that, we never saw the rep really. Our hotel was great. And we got it at a very good price because we'd booked through Inghams. But afterwards I saw that we could have gone with Ski the American Dream for the same price but better flights (scheduled)!
Anyway - I agree - unless it's a route/chalet etc that we know works - our package days are over. I'd rather stay home!

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sarah@alpedhuez, yes, we've thought of this but we're about over 2 hours from Newquay so think travel wise it would be as broad as its long. Thanks though anyway.

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Been going the DIY route for both summer and Ski hols for a few years and there's no way I'd change.
For the past 4 trips (2 summer 2 winter) we've driven to Austria and its great. Even though we're from the North of England, its still worth driving for us and has many advantages.
And don't forget when driving your not limited on your luggage allowance or charged more for ski equipment! You also have the advantage of having a car with you in the resort.
You can have 7 FULL days skiing not 5 days as with most package deals. The other Saturday we arrived in Wagrain at 9am, parked up outside the apartment house and hit the slopes straight away. Then on the last day, we loaded the car up first then had a few more hours on the slopes. A quick change of clothes and a shower in the sauna changing room, and then we set off home. For us its a 1000mile each way journey, but even that does not put us off. We're now buying the apartments and moving there full time from this summer!
And as for flexible accommodation, we will be offering flexible days/ dates with the options of extended weekend stays for cheaper flights IE Friday-Monday, Thursday-Tuesday etc, that way most only need to take off 2 days from work, flights are cheaper and airports / roads quieter!

Bob snowHead

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Does anyone have experience of do it yourself for ski hols in N.America (west side)? My researches suggest that TO prices there can't be beaten, at least for the Easter hols. Since it involves scheduled flights and car hire (for us), it's neither here nor there in terms of service, except that involving a TO in the loop is just another oppotunity for misunderstandings and errors.

This year we're going with United Vacations (United Airlines holiday bit) who give a good price (although not as good as the brochure offered) and the chance (which we're taking) of a stopover in eg New York.

richmond, I agree. Our 4 trips to (western) North America have all been with a TO. We have tried to organise a DIY trip but couldn't get the flights we wanted - not at a good price anyway. It was a bit annoying because a couple of times the transfer just involved being pointed to the local shuttle company!!

I've got discounts through work the past couple of times so it's been pretty good value, but I'd definitely prefer to organise it myself if it was cheap enough (for the reasons you state).

You know it makes sense.

I haven't given up on packaged holidays as I haven't tried one out yet.

Must be over 15 years now driving to Europe, initally in summer and now mainly in winter. Typically 650 miles per leg and a total of 2500 miles spreading over two weeks.

My guess is apart from the 3-day hard driving, 1 day forward and 2 days return, I lose on average one day more than flying with a packaged holiday. For that I can ski wherever the best snow I can find, take as much gears as I like to the slope, eat wherever I fancy and visit every country that catch my imagination. Since my skiing trips are around 2-week long they are always cheaper than the packaged tours.

I cannot find any complaint in my skiing holidays. The biggest traffic jam I experienced was to cover the 34 miles from Bourg St Maurice to Albertville in 2.5 hours because I did know such thing as a changeover day.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

I like to do a bit of a mixture.

Help!!

Package holiday? never again....

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