 Poster: A snowHead
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Just got back from a fantasic week in the 3V.
Well, the skiing that is.
Can someone please tell me why it should be necessary to leave Meribel at 9.30am for a 5pm flight from Lyon? Despite all attempts to pursuade the rep otherwise, he was insistent that the traffic would be awful and that we needed to leave at that time.
Funnily enough he disappeared fairly rapidly when we arrived at Lyon airport at 1pm (and that after a 45 minute stop whilst we waited to pick up others down the valley). Even more funny (not) was his later absence when the flight was delayed for a further 5 hours....
16 hours door to door...Needless to say we shall be looking into alternate methods of travel next year!
Anyone else had experience of this madness?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Yea, tried all sorts to avoid it. Tried just going to the USA/ Canada on scheduled flights. you avoid the stoopid airport arrival times but have a long flight instead.
Tried driving/DIY transfers with only limited success. Driving takes just as long door to door, but you are sitting in a car rather than an departure lounge.
Tried DIY trips but could not undercut the tour operators unless it was half term.
Sorry, I dont have an answer. I'll be keeping a close eye on the ones you get though! 
Glad the skiing was worth it.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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One time I remember arriving at the Lyon Charter Shed 3 hours before my flight and still been waiting to check in half an hour after it was due to take off. Personally I would never choose to fly charter to/from Lyon but this was the only transport on offer by the very nice TO that paid for the week.
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I've never been charter again after a similar experience - whole day waiting at Gatwick on way out, whole day at Lyons on the way back, which has got to be one of the worst places to kill so much time. (An architect we were with memorably described the charter terminal there as "what is known in the trade as paper knickers construction - designed to be put up and taken down again in a hurry!")
Have subsequently tried every other means of getting to the Alps (scheduled airlines, various train routes, car), and all of them are infinitely preferable. It appears that your misfortune is also partly attributable to being on the last flight of the day - i.e. the third round trip for the plane. Published timetables for charter airlines are a complete work of fiction by this stage in the day.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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We had a similar experience last year. We would have been slightly quicker to have driven to and from Tignes than to have endured absurdly long check-in times, delays, interim drop-off points and the like. There's a lot to be said for DIY holidays.
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Myself and 5 other once arrived at Lyon Charter shed 10 mins before departure. We had endured a "nightmare 7 hr transfer from Tignes, which we would have endured in a car. The plane still took off on tim, with us on board. Amazing.
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definitely worth letting the train take the strain. Lyon is the worst airport for charter flights/delays in my book and I swore i will never travel through Lyon again. Its Grenoble in two weeks instead. the words frying pan and fire spring to mind
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I've vowed to never, ever go through the Lyon charter shed again. I thought a bad transfer on a boys' trip in 1995 was a once-off but an appalling experience with a family holiday transfer in 2001 convinced me that it is a very badly designed building that is poorly managed and just can't cope with transfer day volumes. Although others have had bad experiences of Chambery, I've been through there quite a few times on a Sunday transfer, when it is fairly quiet, without any major problems.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Had to stand for two hours out of 5 at Salzburg for a charter (we got to sit after two others had left) a few years agao and decided never again. After then getting a snowtrain with a package firm and realising that the package firm gave us nothing extra, we've been DIY ever since. Our holidays haven't cost less money, but we've always had more choice of accommodation, dates and route there and back, and have got more for out money (e.g. this last holiday I went for two weeks for the price of one), so have worked out cheaper. Oh, and we've got home in a reasonable mood and not feeling like we need a holiday.
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Dave J,
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but could not undercut the tour operators unless it was half term
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Yowsa... you're looking in ALL the wrong places then...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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The answer is to go with a tour operator who does Sunday transfers. Left Courcheval at 6.30 am half term week, snow all the way to Lyon , but no traffic because it was Sunday. Took just under 3 hours to get there at 9.30. Checked in by 10am for the 11 am Manchester flight. The only problem was when the bus got to the plane and we had to wait for the cleaners to get off. Oh and their were plenty of seats in the Lyon hanger. Now Turin on a Sunday a few years ago that was another story!!!!!!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Surely,everyone knows that,with package,were getting the level of service commensurate with what we are prepared to pay.I have DIY'd for years;Winter & Summer.Every once in a while I get tempted by a 'deal',and discover(again  )that nothing has changed.By paying 'cattle' moving prices thats the level of service I expect Crowded and confused airports with,mostly,crap facilities.Inept company reps(don't forget,they are on holiday as well-only theirs is longer than yours)Ridiculous pick up times.Every man and his dog trying to rip you off at every opportunity etc etc  As one(unusually)helpful rep once said to me,"If you knew what I know,you'd never take a package deal again"!!
My view;DIY every time.On the rare occasion I package its real,real cheap so I can put up with the odd problem;content in the knowledge I snapped up a bargain  They are there to be had,but you gotta have your eye's open!
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I think that snowskisnow has hit the nail on the head. Competition has driven prices, and inevitably quality, right down. The nature of holiday travel is such that this makes it almost impossible for people willing to pay a bit more for something a bit better to get it, unless you're able to afford a private jet or to travel by train.
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You know it makes sense.
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I packaged for the first time in years on my last trip. Canada, on a scheduled flight.
Return flight 6.00pm (ish), 90 mins drive to airport so pickup was at.............2.20pm. Pretty good I thought, so we got an extra 1/2 day in 
So it seems it also depends where and how you go.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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marc gledhill, very enlightened of the TO. Who was it, as a matter of interest?
I usually hire a car in Canada, partly because it's usually useful in the resort and partly because I enjoy having brekkie watching the TO coaches picking people up, and then having a half day or more on the slopes or wandering around the town and then catching up with them all at the airport (car hire is often a no or low cost option in Canada).
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Poster: A snowHead
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I completely agree with all the forgoing.
Have driven every year since 1990. (Awful story of Geneva on a Saturday) Even more certian we were doing the right thing when we started family. The car journey is an attitude of mind, the trip is an integral part of the holiday with a leisurely stop ovenight just off the motorway (Beaune the last 2 years.) Now kids are older we take the laptop which plugs into cig. lighter and they watch a couple of DVDs on the way and another couple on the way back. Having done the trip every year since they were born they are quite use to it. This year to fit in with the National Curriculm we counted war Grave Cemetry's across the Somme! There is plenty to do on the journey it just takes a little thought and planning.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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richmond, Inghams.
Reps were of little to no use though - no idea why people find having an underqualfied salesperson along is a benefit 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Went through Chambery recently: seemed okay on the way in, but on the way out we got fog-bound for about 3 hours. The incoming flight landed at Lyons okay, then flew over to Chambery when the fog cleared. As a result we lost any transfer-time we saved by picking Chambery instead of Lyons.
It would seem smaller "regional" airports like Chambery don't have the full ILS landing system for adverse weather conditions, which is worth being aware of.
As for avoiding cr*p coach transfers with lots of stops, I find going with a smaller TO generally means you have less chance of stopping to pick others up, change coaches bla-bla. The one exception was Val d'Isere with SkiFrance, who made us set off very early to "avoid the traffic". To be fair, they did allow us a few hours for lunch in Annecy, which beats hanging around Lyons airport anyday.
So the moral is pick an independent rather than one of the big-boys and you will see the difference in service (hopefully!).
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We had an absolutely dreadful check-in at Lyons recently. I don't know why but the queues were round the airport and we stood there for ages without moving. No one knew which queue was which until you got near the desk. We got separated from our friends in the hustle and when I asked the man in front of me (who had barged in front anyway) if he'd mind if I went ahead to check in with my friends he bit my head off - well to tell the truth he as quite abusive. This upset me so much that I will never ever go that way again.
Like everyone else, we've DIYed, trained, packaged - the works. Package seems OK if you go with a reputable company and travel on a Sunday (though the Lyons nightmare was Sunday).
The problem is that everyone gets so stressed and some people turn downright aggresive. It ruined the whole week for me and I'm still upset!
My vote is train or drive. At least driving you're in control. And we've only had one bad journey on the train.
Eurostar during the day seems the best option if you don't want to share those horrid sweaty couchettes.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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So agree
We usually drive - but went to LDA boxing day on a package tour with friends.
I had forgotten how stressful it is - journey home just left me feeling so drained with all the waiting around - being stuck in traffic on the wrong road at the wrong time! - queueing etc etc
Just love driving - leave home after the M25 rush hour on a Friday - catch a ferry around 9.30pm - drive on deserted roads through the night (2 hours on 2 hours off sharing with hubby) - Time to think - lovely and quiet (or nice music) - Take yummy food to nibble.. and arrive in resort (have done France, Switz, Italy) - at around 10 in the morning to hit the slopes. (feel a bit tired on the first night - but its worth it!)
Last day - if the snow is great you can stay on and get a late night ferry back....
Would only do a package tour again if they are giving them away! (but we do live only 2 hours from Dover - so that helps!)
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Chuff, I think you were very lucky getting there in the time you say. That has to be one of the faster times of the year. If you had travelled the week before, it would have taken you between 2 and 3 hours longer. NEVER go by plane to the Savoir on a Saturday!!
I acnnot agree that TO's are a rip off but I do pick and choose whether to book direct or go package depending on the type of holiday we are going on. For instance, for many years we have stayed in the same appartments in Val D'Isere. Now YSE have a "chalet" in those appartments. We are able to do a direct comparison between the costs of independent travel and YSE and we have found that the costs, everything taken into account, are almost the same. If traveling independently you get the joy of eating out while with YSE it is catered. As their catering is rather good, if we wanted to stay in those appartments we would probably go YSE.
However, booking direct and traveling independently to our favorite hotel in Val D'Isere saves a lot over the same as a package.
The best TO's get a lot of customer loyalty which is why it is hard to book with them during peak season. Unfortunately, they tend to also be the most up market and their prices reflect that.
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Another reason for going to Switzerland.
The better firms will do you a package using scheduled airlines.
Fly/rail means you can check in the luggage at the airport and it turns up at your hotel with no further carrying on your part.
Swiss railways are a delight. On your return you can do some sightseeing - instead of hanging around in the charter shed at Geneva with the whole world and their luggage.
I used to put up with a lot for the skiing, but now I look at the whole holiday experience before I shell out.
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Latchigo, How well does the luggage delivery service work. I've visited Switzerland quite a lot through work and know how well the train system works, so I've no problems about using the public transport to get to the resort. Someone delivering the luggage would be a great benefit.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| jtr wrote: |
| Latchigo, How well does the luggage delivery service work. I've visited Switzerland quite a lot through work and know how well the train system works, so I've no problems about using the public transport to get to the resort. Someone delivering the luggage would be a great benefit. |
You check the luggage in at the UK airport in the morning.
You get a train from the Swiss airport and a few hours after you arrive, the luggage is brought up to your hotel room.
If it takes you 3 hours on the train to Davos, the luggage should turn up in 6 hours, for example.
If you get an afternoon flight, the luggage may get delayed till the following morning because the fly/rail depot in the resort would have shut. The hotels collect the bags from the rail station using the voucher you are issued with. You do not have to stay in a top hotel to take advantage of the facility.
On the return journey, you check the bags in at the resort rail station and pick it up in the UK when your flight unloads.
En route home you can break the journey at Zurich or Berne and do some sightseeing or have a meal.
Fly/rail does not operate to all resorts,notably Crans Montana.
I have never had a problem with the luggage arriving when I have used the system.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I've asked this before, but why does everyone go at weekends?Just because the lemming French holiday makers all go together.... I can just about understand people with children at school going at half term (not that I ever have, we used to go the second bog cheap week in January, and they all got their A levels). But why, please someone tell me why, grownups on their own would ever travel to the Alps on a Saturday? Are they mad?  Even if they're teachers, they could go on Sunday. But Tuesdays, deadest day on the airlines, that's the day to travel. There are plenty of small hotels and individuals renting out apartments and chalets on a flexible basis.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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pam w, many hoteliers like people to do Saturday to Saturday, can you imagine the losses they'd make if you want to go on a Thursday till Thursday, someone else wants to go Wednesday to Friday and so on ? Thus hoteliers like an easy life and prefer people to go whole weeks, now obviously they will make exceptions, and bigger hotels have more freedom to do this than smaller ones, but esentially that's the reason for whole week bookings, Saturday to Saturday is the usual week booking as it allows people to sort themselves out at home on Sunday before starting work again on Monday.
Now I'm lucky my favorite hotel only usually rents out their smallest room to me so I can pretty much pick any day and any time to turn up and it's not a problem, but when I go with friends I try to arrive and leave at weekends
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D G Orf, That's a sensible point, as we need to realise that hoteliers, chalet and apartment suppliers need to turn a buck. The whole operation on the major change-over day i.e. Saturday is really very fragile - an aircraft goes "tech", or inclement weather and everything goes "pear-shaped" very quickly.
I packed up package holidays ski-ing for good 2 years ago, when I stood for 2 hours checking-in at Salzburg airport. This was really not the fault of the tour operator, but that of the of the greedy airport authority allowing the airport to take in more flights than its infrastructure could deal with. This sounds like the problem with Lyon to me.
Clearly tour operators need to think about staggering their change-over days, and at least thinking about more Sunday to Sunday durations for a start. Or you can do what I do now and that is DRIVE. My recipe is catch the boat on Friday at 19:30, find a nice BB about 70 to 100 miles from Calais, up early on Saturday and arrive in Switzerland by 17:00, the Tarentaise by 18:00, or Austria by 19:00. For the return I leave the resort fairly early and catch a ferry between 19:00 and 22:00 and for me home an hour before or after midnight. Above all my own destiny and piece of mind in my own hands.
Good Bye to hanging around at airports, but lately some hanging around at ferry ports - alas nothing is perfect is it?  
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You know it makes sense.
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DAVID SNELL, well I went by Tunnel in Jan and Feb with no problems, but I accept that they are not perfect either. As a matter of interest, does anyone have comparison figures for fuel use/CO2 emissions for travelling by air/bus to the Alps versus driving? What is the average flight fuel usage per passenger? I prefer to drive every time. Gatwick 5am starts, 8 hour delays at Chambery, lost luggage and the overall pain in the butt that air travel is I can live without when I'm on holiday (I fly plenty for business, ta very much).
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Lyon cattle shed what a hole - if you are forced into travelling through there, wander across to the main airport instead - not perfect, but better by far.
Re small TOs - Brritish guys down in Bareges, (linked to La Mongie) run own hotel and transfers - we came off the slopes into the mini-bus at 2:30, changed out of ski-gear at airport (Toulouse) and onto plane, home for 6pm. Sweet.
But its not all roses doing it the other way...
We drove last year to les Arcs, stopping over 1/2 way down with a 2 yr old. Boxing Day night, great little village off the beaten track, all part of the holiday. And lovely, will do again.
But...learned a v. important lesson about Saturday transfers, and New Year, when coming back.
Don't. leave. after. 9am.
Took 4 hours to get from Bourg St Maurice to Moutiers (what's that.. 20km?) . Nightmare - No snow, just traffic joining the valley road from La Plagne and the Three Valleys. Fortunately had left a lot of spare time for hotel arrival, and were able to (just) get there for evening meal. But would have missed any plane - and that is why the reps get you out of the resort at silly hours, just in case.
Last few visits flown scheduled to GVA, & borrowed cousin's car who lives there (OK I know, cheat!) nice and easy.
This Saturday, going by train . Well, you've got to try all ways eh?
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Poster: A snowHead
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I've also vowed never to go via Lyons charter tent ever again. Equally unimpressed with the charter areas of Geneva and long transfers from there to La Plagne, etc... they shouldn't be long but they always seemed to take double the brochure times.
Did an independant this year. Mid-week cheap flights on Flybe, Southampton - Chambery. No problems - the airport was empty both times. Train from BSM to Chambery takes about 2 hours - stopping everywhere - but it's reliable and unaffected by traffic jams (see above .....) and most bad weather. Taxi from the station in the centre of Chambery to the airport is only 5 minutes ride. Chambery can however be affected by fog, crosswinds and the short runway - we've covered that before. Try the search engine if you are interested. Flybe arrive mid-dayish which gives any early morning fog a chance to clear.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Anyone looked at chartering their own plane ? (I don't mean a 747?)
A friend with pilots license looked at this a while ago. As far as I can remember if you had to hire pilot as well it was going to cost you lots, but if you could just charter a plane it was approaching reasonable.
Never did it but would be interested to hear from anyone who has. It has to be the ultimate queue buster!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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there was as thread about it not so long ago. I'll see if I can find it
here you go
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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D G Orf, although going mid-week to mid-week is frowned upon by some hoteliers, you will find ones that will do it (especially outside of peak peak season). I've found going Friday morning -> Thursday night works well, as you allow them to then take a weekend customer after you leave. You just need to expect 85% of hotels to say no if you book months in advance. The counter to this is just to blanket email the same request to lots of hotels! Closer to the time, the ratio of hotels accepting mid-week bookings had risen to about 50%.
Dave J In terms of costs, if you get it right I think you can significantly undercut tour operators. I've found you need to:
a) fly mid-week with a budget airline b) find a resort close to budget airline airports c) hire a bus/minibus to do the transfer for you, or better still find a resort where you can train it d) find a privately owned hotel (many resorts have great accomodation search websites).
As guidance on price, I organised a trip for 24 people to Saalbach in mid-January. Flights: £60 (Ryanair - 0640 Friday morning from Stansted and 8pm Thurs flight back from Salzburg), Hotel was £25 pppn or £150 for 6 nights (B&B basis, all rooms en-suite, 800m from lifts and centre of Saalbach). Transfer: €30 pp fur a luxury coach (organised via diy-hols.com who I'd recommend) for a transfer that met us direct from our flight and staight to our hotel (at the exact times that I perscribed). This allowed us to arrive shortly after 11 on arrival day, and depart at about 5pm on departure day, giving 7.5 days skiing. All for £230per person (before insurance/ski-pass). Tour operator prices for Saalbach that week typically started at £650 (although they typically included evening meals, but £420 buys a lot of food). Sure, the transfer was helped by having a large group, but a mini-bus for 8 people (original plan - before everybody invited all their friends and their freind's friends) would only put another £20 per person on the cost.
To me - the cost isn't the main benefit, it's the convenience. It's knowing you can be at Stansted (which for me is 30 mins down the road ) at 6:40am, and be on the slopes by 11:30am (1030 british time). Along with the ability to ski a full day on departure day. With the added bonus of no dumb reps, no stupid transfers waiting for some other flight to come in.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Oh what have I started!
In a way nice to know my experience wasn't unique - but then not nice that so many people have had to put up with this sort of thing.
For the record, it was one of the large TOs. However, it wasn't like it was a cheapo bargain either. Made the mistake of going for one of their "platinum" chalets which was run by two of the laziest board bums I've come across.
Fortunately we did head across to the main Lyon terminal and managed to locate ourselves in the bar of the Soffitel (spelling?) whilst the rugby was on. Mind you some of us still got stuck in the charter bit for a long while before the announced further flight delays and let us out again! The delay would have been somewhat understandable had it been the last flight of the day as someone said - unfortunately not - some muppet drove a truck into the plane and they had to wait for a replacement to arrive!
The talk from our party was definitely to drive next time. Probably Friday night late ferry and through the night, arrive in Moutier for the opening of the bakers! Either that or I'll look at the train - seem to remember someone in another thread talking about Eurostar to Paris, transfer to Gare D'Austerlitz and 1st class couchette down on SNCF (not the party snow train as I've done before!).
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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kamikaze,
Many thanks. I wondered what I was missing out on. I am humbled!
Can you arrange my next trip for me?
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I would never go package, I value my time & enjoyment too much to worry about 100 quid here or there. It's cheap because you're treated like sh*te!
Every year when I go to canada my friends are picked up at the hotel early hours of morning for a transfer to Calgary... I go out to the slopes, am on my bus by 1pm and we're still at the airport at the same time! Oh and I would never fly charter *ever* - but then I am a snob of the highest degree! 
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6:40am, and be on the slopes by 11:30am
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Oh groan, moan, envy .................. it's OK for you guys living in the part of the country covered by decent transport routes. Despite having two (!commercial) airports (Bristol and Exeter) down here in the southwest it is impossible to get a plane at a time and cost that suits. Or you get the plane but it isn't going where you want to go! Getting to Stansted/Gatwick/Heathrow all add 3/4 hours to the journey. I have had some good flights and prices from here but at New Year the only flight we could get was £340 pp Southampton to Chambery! And then they charged us £60 each for skis.
I've got an idea. We all contribute from this site to train one of us as a pilot and then we buy a plane and organise our own transport. We could also buy a chalet and run our own holidays. In fact, why don't we just all move out there and pay each other to do jobs.
What? Don't you think it would work? I bet Richard Branson never said that.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Jane wrote: |
| Quote: |
6:40am, and be on the slopes by 11:30am
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Oh groan, moan, envy .................. it's OK for you guys living in the part of the country covered by decent transport routes. |
Well we need one reason to live in the SE.
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Just to add the alternative view - the only horrendous journey I've ever had was when travelling independently. Touch wood, with package holidays most of the transfers have been OK. Admittedly all but one have been with small companies. The only disaster was a diy trip with Ryan Air - fog bound at Treviso & we had to be bussed half way across Italy - it took us 24hrs to get home! My advice - if you are going for a package, stick with small companies & choose somewhere close to the airport. The transfer from Innsbruck to St Anton is a dream after trips between Geneva/Lyon & Tignes/Les Arcs/La Plagne etc.
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FAQ
