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Chill Factore vs Hemel vs An Actual Moutain

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
So got my second fill of the white stuff (lasted 2 days since first go at skiing at Chill Factor on Thursday) when I decided to stop off at Hemel this afternoon to bimble round for a couple of hours on the way back down sarf from the frozen north.

An interesting experience for a new skiier like me - wondered if my experience/perception tallies with other people? Or maybe I'm just kidding myself about the reasons I fell over a lot today!

Chill Factor - steeper of the two slopes, but benefits from being wider allowing more traversing across the hill to shave off some speed where necessary. Snow very flat with next to undulations etc.

Hemel - slightly "softer" snow with a much more undulating surface - wasn't really expecting this and it did throw me off quite a lot - wasn't sure how to handle the lumps and bumps and keep up being able to make sensible turns etc.

An actual mountain - Now, won't actually get onto a real hill until End of Feb, but my guess is that a piste in the alps will be more like the hill at hemel with lots of undulations and random lumps of snow etc - is this likely to be right? (Obviously sure some pistes are different to others but as a rough rule of thumb... e.g. skiing somewhere like Kitzbuhel as that's where I'm heading). Although I struggled a bit more at Hemel (also possibly to do with that being the first time skiing without the attention of instructor) I'm hoping this will actually improve my skiing overall and help me cope better out in the real world?

Thoughts?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
you may die of excitement at the end of feb when you get on a real hill...... get as much practice on the indoor stuff and really enjoy youself on the "hill"
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Zermatt Moderately steep and quiet, snow in good nick.
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BigSoy, first part of the day on a quiet run it will be like Manchester, smooth and flat, (but better snow). Latter half of the day, on very busy runs, possible undulating mounds! With time, you will negotiate these without too much concern, it's just practise! Wide runs always make for easier skiing in my opinion, I still avoid narrow red ones - I like plenty of time to turn! You'll love it when you get out there on the real stuff, nothing compares!
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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BigSoy, did you visit the two slopes at different times of day or different days of week? It's that which makes the difference to how flat the snow feels, not the slope itself.
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I believe the gradients are the same at Hemel and Chill - top section 15deg, bottom 10deg? I don't know Kitzbuhel - only been there on a very foggy summer's day! I'd say that the top sections of both Hemel/Chill represent the sort of thing you'd find on blue slopes, Chill suggest in their blurb that it may be even an "easy red". You will almost certainly find much longer slopes that are like the lower section and great for confidence building practice. Don't get hung up on colour of slopes though - you might say that while "all blues are equal, some are (most definitely) more equal than others":shock.

As beanie1, said time of day makes a big difference, indoors and out - the more people who've skied it, the more lumpy/bumpy it gets, so the same slope can feel very different; in the "real world" you have weather & time of year to factor in too. Freshly groomed snow is flat & even - in the "real world" the surface can be pretty hard first thing too, so as you ski down over the "corduroy" lines your teeth chatter Shocked. At the end of a sunny later season day the snow can be heavy/slushy and chopped up. You'll probably find it's nicest mid-morning.

:
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I've been to Hemel, CFe and Kitzbuhel.

It's really not fair to compare a UK fridge with a ski resort. So I'll start with the fridges. Hemel and CFe in my opinion are the best in the UK. Both have snow that is closer in quality to the natural snow you'll mostly find on the mountain and good poma lifts. Both felt a similar length but CFe seemed a bit wider. Both of them had bumps on my visits, CFe they were at either side near the top, at Hemel they were more spread out and the snow was generally a bit softer. Personally, I don't mind a few bumps.

Anyway, moving on to Kitzhuhel. It's a big, spread out ski area, more so now that the 3S-Bahn links up the slopes of Resterhohe and you can link to SkiWelt via Aschau. There are no green slopes, but plenty of beginner blues either at the foot of the Hahnenkamm or on the Kitzbuheler Horn. The runs are generally a bit under-graded which makes it a great area for intermediates. All the blues are pretty easy. Easy reds include 19 down from Ehrenbachhöhe and 61 down from Wurzhöhe. If you want easy blacks, 23 and 63 were my favourites. However, 69 is a tricky and often icy red (doesn't get much sun) and 38 is a nasty black.

By the way, I don't have a really great memory, I kept the piste map! Kitz itself is low so often there is little or patchy snow at resort level. There was none when I was there (March 2008) but the snow was great further up and they are very good at preparing and grooming the pistes. However towards the end of the day, most of the runs will have the lumps and bumps you refer to. These are moguls and they are created by the passage of skiers. The runs around the igloos are especially bumpy towards the end of the day as most 'traffic' has to pass through there.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Hmm could be wrong but the gradients definitely felt different - certainly the difference between the flatter bottom part and steeper upper part at Chill Factor seemed more dramatic. Could be something to do with the bigger flat bit of snow in between at Chill Factor, not sure?

Yeah, guess the time of day would've definitely made a difference - Chill Factor was on a quiet Midweek day, Hemel on a packed Saturday afternoon. Still, it seemed to me as if the slope at Hemel was almost done that way deliberately to make it a more interesting ski? From you guys are saying this probably isn't the case though.

Sounds like more practice is the only sensible way forward...
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Isn't Hemel 10deg the whole way, whereas CFe has a 15deg section?
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BigSoy, I have been to Hemel several times, a few of these for the whole day. It's usually the case that 'the earlier, the flatter'. snowHead
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queen bodecia - thanks for that, really useful. Have read a lot about snow in Kitz itself being dubious so definitely want to get to the level where I can be comfortable heading up to the higher slopes before I get out there. Looks like the two big runs down into town (3 and 20 I think from the very cool Kitz online ski map) are closed at the minute - would be nice if they were open by the time we get there first week in March but we'll have to see.

beanie1 - That feels more like it to me, as I say, seemed to be more dramatic difference between top and bottom at Chill Factor.

Iski - Fair enough - guess I'll have to make sure I'm up and at reasonably earlier when in Kitz then Very Happy or learn to ski the bumps one or the other.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I've been to both. Hemel seems to get more chopped up then CFe like a real slope but you have to look at the amount to skier traffic it's had. In a resort (depending on conditions) the steeper bits will look like hemel late in the day if it's busy, the more traffic and the steeper the slope the more cut up it gets. If it's snowed it will we hemel late x10 within about 1hr. Beginners and intermediates tend to struggle with variable snow conditions since they need to be skied a bit differently, this is when injuries start to occur.

I felt CFe was very marginally steeper in the middle section and the snow was a bit harder but really they were near identical for all intents and purposes. Oh and at hemel the lift didn't break every 10mins like CFe and MK (I'm not exaggerating here).


Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Sun 10-01-10 17:01; edited 1 time in total
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Hemel is 15 degrees at the top, and 12 degrees at the bottom. The bottom half of the Hemel slope is the same gradient as the training/nursery slope, so if you want to see where the grandient changes, you can see from the wall at the top of the training slope.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Maybe that explains why the change in gradient at the change over at Chill Factor feels more dramatic if its 15 -> 10 vs 15 -> 12 at Hemel.

Guess it being my first time down a vaguely serious slope might also explain why it felt steeper at Chill Factor, guess it could be fine if I went back again.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
BigSoy, Hemel is 15,12 then 10. I think(althoughnot sure) CF is 15, 10.

We tend to get very busy over the weekends so bumps do form. For perfect groomed snow, Wednesday morning at 8am is great. That is when I tend to ski (if im not up on the roof)!

PSG
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 Poster: A snowHead
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I am a beginner skier - I've done a weeks skiing in Val Thorens on Greens and Blues and also been to Hemel 3 times since then.

Personally I find the main slop at Hemel so be significantly bumpier than anything I went down on the actual mountain. The first time I went to Hemel I left really disheartened as the bumpyness was just destroying my technique when I and others thought I had progressed well on the mountain.

Subsequent visits to Hemel with more practice over the bumps have made me a bit more confident - chatting to one of the instructors there, she said if you can ski here ok then you'll have no problem on the mountain, she also said at the time we were there that due to the bumps and narrowness of the slope that it would probably have been graded an easy red/hard blue.

Just my 2p
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Good skiing is all about "inputs" (stuff you do) and "outputs" (stuff you get, results)!

Different conditions will dictate that to reach a good output, you may need to change your inputs. Thats why people have good days and bad days, On bad days they have not really changes their technique (predicatble movements), however the conditions have changed. To reach a positive result (output), they needed to make input changes (do different stuff)!

PSG
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
narc wrote:

I felt CFe was very marginally steeper in the middle section and the snow was a bit harder but really they were near identical for all intents and purposes.


Which is the major reason as I understand it that the summer artificial slope race calender is not yet out. The artificial snow slopes are claiming they get more racers (but won't allow time for other clubs to train), whilst the plastic-based racers are saying that all the artificial snow slopes are the same and are not a good introduction to alpine racing - which obviously vary quite dramatically. So no-one can agree what rules will apply this year!

Apparently, in Holland there is much more variety in the steepness of the artificial snow-slopes: so if you want a new experience, try there.
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gilleski wrote:
BigSoy, Hemel is 15,12 then 10. I think(althoughnot sure) CF is 15, 10.

We tend to get very busy over the weekends so bumps do form. For perfect groomed snow, Wednesday morning at 8am is great. That is when I tend to ski (if im not up on the roof)!

PSG


Cool - thanks PSG - don't take any comments on the bump as a criticism by the way, just a newbie trying to understand what causes the different conditions etc. Wednesday 8am is sadly unlikely I suspect as my job doesn't have the benefit of being in the fridge (depends how you look at it I suppose Very Happy) but might try and get down for an early weekday evening at some point which might be a bit quieter. (PS Nice work on the roof by the way!)

Overall, I can see why the bumpy stuff might actually provide a more compelling experience/challenge - so I'm definitely not saying I only want perfectly groomed snow - just that it might need a bit more practice before I'm skiing that kind of stuff consistently without the seemingly obligatory face plants on each run Laughing

Sirius - thanks for that - v. reassuring. Guess it varies a bit by resort and I don't how Val Thorens will compare to Kitzbuhel in terms of concentration of traffic and variety of runs etc but hopefully Kitz is big enough that there'll be plenty of decent snow around. If I can comfortable ski medium-hard blues by the time I get out there that should give me a good start to the week I reckon (Also got morning ski school whilst I'm out there so that should help too).
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
BigSoy, the reality is that conditions in indoor slopes in the UK will be more predictable than you will ever experience in the mountains. In the hills, you will experience every type of snow surface from smooth icy glass, to 3ft high moguls to knee deep or more powder (we wish!) - the difference between CfE and Hemel is modest to what you will experience in resort.

Not only will you face different snow conditions, but also different underlying terrain (not all slopes are straight forward sloping away in one direction only), and different light and weather conditions (the joys of flat light and white out conditions are all to come!)

As with all things, the best thing is to get out there and experience it all, and learn to cope with them all. Sounds like you are on the way to being hooked!
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RobW wrote

"Which is the major reason as I understand it that the summer artificial slope race calender is not yet out...."


The first draft of the Summer Race Calendar 2010 is now available on Britski .org
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