 Poster: A snowHead
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Hello all! Been googling away for info on skiing recently and this forum seems to be the best place around for help and advice so hoping some of you can help me out!
A brief background to start off with. My girlfriend has been skiing a few times before and absolutely loves it. Ever since we've been together she's been trying to convince me to go and at Christmas she surprised me (very pleasantly!) with a trip to Borovets, Bulgaria on the 20th Feb. Since then though we've been seeing the snow reports for Borovets and as you'll know it's looking bleak. I know it's still a little while off until we were going but having discussed it we took the, very hard, decision to cancel the trip and look to get something else booked up with more guaranteed snow conditions. She just really didn't want to run the risk of having no snow. Sadly she's lost 60% of the price into the bargain but the thought of going skiing for the first time ever and there being no snow was an awful one for both of us! We really want this trip to be a great experience.
Anyway, now I'm looking around at trying to find the best resort to go to for a (wary and nervous!) beginner as I've literally never so much as looked at a pair of skis in my life! Looking to go for 7 nights around the 20th February. We're equally as happy with a resort that's peaceful and quiet as one that has more going on. Ideally not somewhere that's overly busy as I'm thinking the more room I have and the less people I have flying by around me the more confident I'll feel! Also somewhere with some good intermediate runs for her to be able to go off and do as I wouldn't want her being held back by my (lack of!) ability. Budget is also an issue obviously with the fact that money's just disappeared down the drain now with cancelling Borovets. We're probably looking at somewhere in the region of £500 each with me then being prepared to pay extra on top for tuition/ski school while over there. And of course, the best possible snow conditions too! From having read through these forums quite a bit a few places seem to keep coming up which I've added to the shortlist. It would be great if people could give advice and recommendations based on the resorts listed and which they think would best match our needs.
Les Deux Alpes - not really heard a bad word said about this resort on here and also seems highly recommended for beginners.
Les Arcs Arc 2000 - much as above.
Courchevel 1650
La Plagne
Tignes
Passo Tonale, Italy
Solden, Austria
So they're the resorts Ive seen so far that seem to all come well recommended for beginners but also with plenty of good runs for intermediates. All thoughts on those based on our situation plus any suggestions that I may have missed would be greatly appreciated! For some reason Les Deux Alpes and Arc 2000 are standing out as potentially the best options so far.
Although I'm pretty nervous about skiing for the first time I'm also really excited and can't wait to have my first lesson and to see if I'm going to be another to get bitten by the bug! I live in Watford so luckily for me the Hemel Snow Centre is only down the road, hoping to get over there before we go anywhere to take some lessons so I at least know the basics before I go anywhere.
Right, won't waffle on any further! Look forward to hearing back from people and many thanks in advance for any advice given!
Dan
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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To make your money stretch I would have a look at one of the discounting sites like Alpine Answers - http://www.alpineanswers.co.uk/deals - and book about two or three weeks out, you are not in the main half term week which helps. Of the resorts you've listed I'd probably go for Courchevel 1650, but there is not much in it. And if you went there I would say that it is worth having a look at New Generation for some lessons as I have always found them to be very friendly - http://www.skinewgen.com/ . Good luck 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Hi and welcome to  ... you will be traveling at 1/2 term which is the busiest time of the season ( and most expensive). If you cannot change that then L2A has many fans around here ( as does every resort on your list !!) ... added advantage to you is that is 'Beginner-Friendly', has this site's Easiski, as a resident instructor --- who will also undoubtedly help with accommodation. Many of us would gladly stay at the Lutins which is 'cheap and cheerful'. Then again a very wide choice.
Courchevel 1650 also has great beginner slopes .. but is going to cost you more. Fans of other resorts will be along soon as will our resident Hemel instructors!
Enjoy !!
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get to yllas finalnd for half term ,still no queus, lift pass is cheap so are lessons, and u wil have a great time
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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UK half term will have finished, but French , and more specifically the Parisiens will still be on holiday, and it will be one of the busiest weeks of the season. As you are beginners you don't need anywhere that is big and expensive. Italy might be less crowded.
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Personally I'd stay away from most of France if you want something on a budget and quite. Most, if not all the resorts you mentioned will be expensive when you get there and crowded.
Why not try of of these
La Thuille - quite and reasonably cheap wih varied terrain - Plannabel Apts generally have some good deals
Livigno - Italy, excellent & cheap ski school, cheap than most for drinks and food. Excellent snow record
Soldeu - Andorra - Very big area now, cheaper than France
Gaz_H
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I'm thinking the more room I have and the less people I have flying by around me the more confident I'll feel!
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then absolutely don't go anywhere in France on 20 february. Are you determined to go then? You'd find things much quieter if you could choose another time.
And - sadly - there's no such thing as a cheap ski holiday, no matter where you go. Yes, you can go self-catering and live cheaply, cook for yourselves etc, but the lift pass, hire of equipment and ski lessons will cost you a lot - and I don't think there's all that much to choose between the major Alpine destinations, for those items. There's more difference between major resorts (such as Courchevel - which I don't think would ever be recommended for a budget holiday, good as it is) and more minor places in each country than between countries.
If there are just two of you, and if you are flexible, the best approach for your first holiday might be to get a last minute package. That will be easier than doing it all yourself and quite possibly cheaper.
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Best bet would be to head down to Thomas Cook on Monday and see what they can offer you. DON'T book anything on your 1st visit. Get the info and take it away and thing for a while. Do a Google search on your possible resort(s) and see what you think.
If you're beginners, don't listen to most of the waffle you'll read on the web. One bit of snow is almost the same as the next on a blue run.
Next - Look at the hotel, night-life, resort shops, proximity to the piste of the hotel, transfer time, etc, etc, etc, and see if you like the look of it. Check it out on google - remember that most people who post on "some" sites (NOT all - but most) have an axe to grind. Possible some of the most realistic Resort Reports I have seen are on this forum so check them out – some websites are, to say the least not as reliable as what you’ll find here in this forum (I’m not on commission by the way). So if you’re worried you could ask here 1st before you book about a p[particular resort.
Do not DIY – it virtually never as easy as booking with a tour operator, nor is it (when you cost everything in) hardly ever cheaper. So go back to T Cooks and haggle like mad.
(sorry we can’t offer you anything we’re fully booked for all 2010 - see you next year)
Last but not least (deff NOT least) don't worry about anything else, other than having a good holiday.
PS - many people will disagree with everything I say 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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danj, Welcome to snowHeads, I hope you find something good!
I'm not one of those who disagree with Wayne, by the way, we're booked with him at (English) half term!
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I don't disagree with wayne either, though I would still suggest you re-think your dates. You will have more haggle-power if you are looking out of peak period. The last week of January, perhaps, or mid March. One problem of going with a tour operator is that they only cover a very restricted range of resorts - but I still think that's probably the best way for a first holiday, as sorting it all out yourself, with no experience, can be a bit of a mission.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I'd see if you can resurrect the Borovets trip and save all money you'll be losing. Borovets is fine for learning to ski and the chances of no snow in Feb is pretty remote, plus you could always cancel later if there is no snow by then... We had knee deep powder in late jan several times. Plus Borovets is relatively cheap compared to Les Arcs, and the others you mention...
There's a lot of Bulgaria snobs on here but we've had some great ski trips there.
The other way to get a cheap bargain is wait until the last minute and as you're only two and learning you could go anywhere because you'll not be able to make use of a massive ski domain...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Wow, thanks for so many quick and above all very helpful replies! Glad to see I wasn't wrong to come on here for advice! There have been some great replies here and plenty of food for thought for us. Just to recap though it's me who's the complete and utter beginner, my girlfriend has been skiing and boarding several times in her past and has done several red and black runs in her time hence the need for a resort that will cater to us both.
Firstly dates. We're not actually restricted to the 20th Feb, that's just when the original trip was booked for. We have to be here in England for the 4th March but would be free to head off anywhere at anytime after then too. Thanks so much for pointing out the half term situation, especially on the French side of things too! Looking to book within a few weeks of travelling to get a good, late deal also makes sense too, especially as we can be pretty flexible. Though meantime if a good deal was to crop up somewhere we could jump on that too.
Also thanks for the info re the general cost of things in France. Having now done some further research it does indeed seem as though places such as Italy and Austria offer better value all round, especially for me being a first timer.
Livigno in Italy has certainly come up several times whilst looking around. Looks to be a nice resort and good value for money too. One of the only downsides I can see is the (very!) long transfer time to the resort. Seems to be anywhere between 3 - 5hrs! My girlfriend has also heard that Passo Tonale is good for beginners, but perhaps a bit too limited for her level?
In terms of Austria can anyone recommend a suitable resort for our needs there? Again on looking around I've seen Seefeld, Niederau and Mayrhofen mentioned a fair bit.
Wayne - looked at your web link on your signature and Folgarida and Madonna di Campiglio look lovely, like just the kind of places we're looking for! Shame it seems the whole resort is already fully booked. Any thoughts on Livigno?
Thanks again for all the really useful info so far. If I could try and narrow it down to maybe two or three resorts then I can start to keep an eye out for any package deals that crop up.
Would be good to hear from the Hemel Snow Centre guys too, didn't realise they were on here! I've seen 'Inside Out' mentioned on here a few times that teach at Hemel. Wondering if they're different to the usual people at Hemel that I'd be booking some lessons with?
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Wondering if they're different to the usual people at Hemel that I'd be booking some lessons with?
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Yes, would suggest you specifically contact "Inside Out" and arrange something with them (though no doubt there are other good instructors at Hemel too).
If your girlfriend has just done a few ski trips probably most resorts would be fine for her - especially if she'd be taking lessons too (you'll find many people on snowheads are fairly fanatical about the value of taking lessons. I've been skiing for over 20 years including most of the last 6 seasons and I still need plenty of lessons; maybe I'm just a slow learner.  )
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You know it makes sense.
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| danj wrote: |
| Livigno in Italy has certainly come up several times whilst looking around. Looks to be a nice resort and good value for money too. One of the only downsides I can see is the (very!) long transfer time to the resort. Seems to be anywhere between 3 - 5hrs! My girlfriend has also heard that Passo Tonale is good for beginners, but perhaps a bit too limited for her level? |
The thing to remember about ski resorts is that they tend to be areas away from large airports. It's a bit like wanting to ski in the Lake District and landing at Manchester airport, so you're always going to have some time on a bus/in a car when you land. 3 to 5 hours is about average for many ski resorts. Of course you can try to pick a resort near to an airport but this will reduce the number of choices you have.
Livigno is really nice (IMO) and Passo Tonale is bleak (IMO).
I am told there is a ski resort in France somewhere but this is only a rumour, so until it can be confirmed, that it actually exists, I would stick to the more civilised areas of Europe like Italy, Switzerland, Austria, etc.
From what you say I would suggest somewhere like Soll (would be a good start for your skiing life), Zermatt (bit costly but seems to be what you're looking for) or maybe as WayneC says you could try and see if you can resurrect your Borovets trip.
Remember you can spend so long looking for that perfect resort that ticks every single box that you're bound to disapointed when you ge tthere. Just book somewhere you like the look of and when you arrive if there are some small problems (the local shop is closed, roudy Germans, a lift stops working, the coffee up the hill is cold, etc, etc - the list is endless) DO NOT let it spoil your holiday.
As this is your first ski trip above all remember that sliding down a snow-covered mountain with two planks of wood strapped to your feet, is, to put it bluntly, an absurd thing to do. Nevertheless, surprisingly, it’s quite fun and highly addictive. Wherever you go you’ll have fun (and fall over lots)
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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In Austria I might be tempted to add Schladming and Saalbach to your list, both about an hour and a bit from Salzburg. And if you can avoid the half term rush then definitely do!
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Poster: A snowHead
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Hi Danj- I think you are worrying too much about the lack of snow in bulgaria- a lot can happen in a couple of weeks-just look out of your window!!!! However if you are set on changing your destination-then there are a lot of good french resorts-some of which you have listed. Tignes can be a bit scary in my experience as an intermediate though, not so much the terrain,more due to the sheer numbers of James Bond Baddy Boy Racers that come hurtling past you as if you are an underling that needs to get out of the way!! A good tip though (that was my benchmark for finding a resort when I took my kids in the early days) is to find a resort with a few free ski lifts- surprisingly Val Disere has a couple of good ones , not just toggles, making an expensive resort more affordable and with pretty much guarunteed snow even on the low slopes.If you are looking for good beginner/intermediate friendly resorts-then LaPlagne or Flaine are good-both offer a couple of great beginner runs with free ski lifts so you can save money on your first few days in lift pass costs. At Flaine, where there are a few toggles and drags and a big old bucket lift too, you will quickly be moving on to lovely long blue runs that you and your more experienced partner will both enjoy. At the end of the day- as a beginner -you just need lots of time on the snow- not thousands of kilometers of linked ski areas to explore-that will come next season!!!! If youwant some resort specific advice-try talking to the lovely peeps at SkiIndependence- they tell you from personal experience what the resorts are like-and their advice has been invaluable to me over the years 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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snowbaby, Good advice, but why recommend France when it's in French half-term weeks? All the big french resorts (tignes/val d'iseres / La Plagne / Flain) will have horrendous queues as pointed out on various threads above, and there's more demand for ski-school etc - my local ESF last season charge about 40 euro's more for a weeks lessons in a french holiday week compared to a non-holiday week.
[b]Dani - avoid France unless you go in the couple of weeks after 4th March (French holidays from . Definitely book with a tour operator - once you've narrowed down to 2/3 resorts. I'd have a look at the likes of Nielsen / Crystal and see what they have left as 'late availability'. Aim to find accommodation close to the slopes as you don't really want to be hopping on buses as a learner - you'll have forgotten something at some point in time, and having to go back on a bus is just a pain..
I'd second the recommendation to get some time in with inside-out skiing at hemel, actually some of there 'out' lessons might be a good idea for the holiday - whilst you're obviously keen to go as a couple as you ski at different levels - then your partner having the opportunity to ski with people of her standard whilst you are in lessons - will probably improved both of your enjoyment of the holiday.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Tignes can be a bit scary in my experience as an intermediate though, not so much the terrain,more due to the sheer numbers of James Bond Baddy Boy Racers that come hurtling past you as if you are an underling that needs to get out of the way!!
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I can't see any point in someone going to Tignes (or val D'Isere) for their first ski trip. they're expensive, busy, and their good points (vast scope and excellent lift system) are wasted on beginners. And I agree that the number of fast (not necessarily good  ) skiers who flash past you are intimidating. so is the terrain - high and bleak and when it's cold - like minus 30 tomorrow - it's very cold. But when it's warm and mushy at the end of the season (or at New Year when it rained to 2400m) being up there is great.
if you look for some last minute bargains, and can be flexible about timing you could always get advice here on particular resorts if you saw a good offer. Not that we'll all agree, of course. someone just said Zermatt would be ideal for you, but I'm not so sure about that. A smaller Austrian resort would be a much better idea, as would a whole load of smaller French resorts. Les Gets, for example, or La Rosiere.
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I would stick to either Italy or Austria if you're on a budget and beginner/intermediate. Plenty of resorts would fit the bill; you mentioned Passo Tonale already. Also consider Kitzbuhel, Niederau, SkiWelt, La Thuile, Sauze d'Oulx, Dolomites.
If you can change your week, then by all means consider France, but the big French resorts might be a bit of an unnecessary expense for your level.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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the big French resorts might be a bit of an unnecessary expense for your level.
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Agreed, but only a tiny proportion of French resorts are big!! The limiting factor would probably be that only a small proportion of resorts in any of the alpine destinations are served by UK tour operators. But for a first holiday, doing a DIY to an obscure destination is probably not the best idea.
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pam w, that was what I meant really. I didn't word it very well. Somewhere like Courchevel or Tignes for beginners and early intermediates could be seen as an unnecessary expense and maybe a waste of a big ski area.
There are plenty of smaller French resorts, ideal for beginners, but not often found in UK TO brochures.
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I agree with those who say stick with Bulgaria. Snow conditions are always variable and this far out who knows!!
However, IMHO Austria is definitely the best place for anyone to go for their first trip. It is prettier and has livelier Apres Ski than France, is generally more snow sure than Italy and cheaper than Switzerland.
As a beginner don't go to the high cost, big name resorts such as the Courcheval, Verbier, Chamonix, Val D'Isere/Tignes as they will be very busy and (as someone else says) you do not need a huge area to learn to ski. Even if your girlfriend is pretty good she will probably want to spend some time hanging around with you so you don't need kilometre after kilometre of piste.
Everyone has their own favourite resort but all of the popular Austrian resorts I have been to are pretty good, having the above attributes. Obergurgl, Mayrhofen, Soll, Saalbach (although I think Hinterglemm is nicer) all suit both beginners and better skiers.
There are plenty of other threads regarding how to bag a bargain.
Good luck.
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Mon 11-01-10 10:06; edited 1 time in total
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6th March seems to have some pretty cheap deals already if you're flexible where you fly from (London rather than regional) (2* Chalet Hotels etc)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Danj, although I'm very much in favour of DIY ski trips v Tour Operators (think along the lines of wearing a sheeps coat and being herded up by a sheep dog at the airport..........) in your case I can see your need to go along that route - everything is new and despite your gilrlfriend having done it a few times previous, for you it will be a huge - fun - learning curve.
Going to the big resorts is a complete waste of money, you'll but a lift pass around £200 of which you will use only about 20%? Try and find a resort which offers 'points passes' (quite a lot in Austria do), what you do is buy 'points' and every time you use a lift it takes those points off your pass, the higher / bigger lifts cost more points. If you progress well you can buy more points on a daily basis judging what you need on the previous days use. Always get a few more points than you think, last thing you want is to be stuck near a lift you need to get on to go up to get down and you have no points left!
In choosing a resort, how long is a bit of string? So many resorts, loads of which you'll never hear mentoined on here (e.g. Les Angles in the French Pyrenees www.les-angles.com, lots cheaper than the Alps, genuine green - less than blue, runs and resaonable amounts of skiing for your girlfriend. Problem is no tour operators go there so it's a DIY job).
I would suggest buying 'where to ski and snowboard' book from www.wtss.co.uk which has loads of info in and at £18 can save you lots of time and money. It has a new section of the costs of a lot of the major resorts and you'll see just how expensive Courcheval etc is in comparism to other places! The big resorts are good if you can get the value out of them or need to be piste bashing every day, you won't be so don't waste your cash.
Go somewhere with a reasonable amount of pistes probably 150km, a high a resort as you can get for your money, hopefully pretty (if its high you may not get trees which you'll need for the bad visibility days...) and somewhere good for a bit of apres ski -Austria is the best country for that.
Best of luck, let us know where you book......
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I would avoid Tignes as a beginner. Courchevel 1650 or La Plagne would be good and also La Rosiere as a cheaper alternative and great for beginners ( I went there for my second week). Check out the Ski Olympic website as there are some last minute bargains starting to appear - they are excellent in my opinion and many other Snowheads. And if you go to La Rosiere there is the option of hopping over the La Thuile in Italy if you make good progress (at the top or La Ros there is a long drag that links to Italy). Good luck and enjoy.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Just to add to my previous post - I would find a company that provides free ski guiding so that your girlfriend has someone to ski with while you are having lessons. Again, SKi Olympic tick that box. And in a relatively small resort like La Rosiere, she could break away from the group to meet you after lessons. As for timing, early March is pretty much ideal. The English and French kids have gone back to school, the days are lengthening and getting warmer, and the snow should still be in great condition.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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danj, Another vote for Livigno from me. I can get down most things and my SO was a relative newcomer when we went. Suited both of us and there are some great runs to progress to that you'll both enjoy together. Lessons are more reasonable than France and the town benefits from being tax free, so some other things are cheaper.
The town is pleasant with some fun places to go out if that's what you like. The skiing is divided into two areas which are accessible to one another via a straight forward bus system.
The main learning area is literally behind the resort, so very accessible and well set-up IMV.
If you look for an hotel, I'm sure you'll meet people that may offer some skiing buddies for your girlfriend whilst you have lessons.
So, its a 5 hour transfer. As long as you don't get travel sick, what's to worry? The scenery is great or take a book. The transfer back is usually early morning - most on our coach slept.
As others have said, steer clear of France as its half terms and will be busy and expensive, holiday cost-wise.
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