Poster: A snowHead
|
Whistler-Blackcomb, a host resort for the 2010 Winter Olympics, is fitting children in its ski schools with GPS tags this winter.
This report from SkiClub.co.uk
Quote: |
The technology, which operates in real time, will make it possible to pinpoint a guest’s exact location as well as his or her physical relationship to other guests or resort staff. |
That could mean a number of things. Would anyone care to whistle Whistler to find out a bit more about this?
[P.S. Edit: Something's up with the computer. It's put "&quo" at the end of the heading, instead of close-quote marks]
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
Sounds an excellent idea to me, I wonder where I could get a system just for use by a single family!!
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
Ernst Goldsmith, I know where my kids are on the mountain because I can see them. If an instructor needs an electronic aid to keep track of those in his/her care then perhaps they shouldn't be teaching.
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
Borscht Swiller, I agree with that
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
Bode Swiller, I take the point that we all try to keep kids in sight, but I can see their advantage in the fog and bad light conditions as well as on busy run ins to resorts at the end of the day - kids can and do disappear! Luckily mine have mastered their radios and we quickly tracked down the one we mislaid for a very short time, but anything is useful.
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
what if it gets hacked by pedophiles/groomers/somali pirates? i read in the daily mail that they are everywhere
|
|
|
|
|
|
Bode Swiller wrote: |
Ernst Goldsmith, I know where my kids are on the mountain because I can see them. If an instructor needs an electronic aid to keep track of those in his/her care then perhaps they shouldn't be teaching. |
My concern would be that an instructor teaching "tagged" kids would use traditional methods, e.g. frequent headcounts and observation, less frequently than they would otherwise do. The tags have a place to cover situations where "things go wrong", but not as a substitute to common sense, I'd say.
|
|
|
|
|
|
exactly.
Quote: |
what if it gets hacked by pedophiles/groomers/somali pirates? i read in the daily mail that they are everywhere
|
Arno, you forgot Muslim extremists.
So, you lose little Jimmy up the mountain. Quick, whip the laptop out of the rucksack, set up the solar recharging, boot up, log in, find a wi fi, open the application, log in, locate little Jimmy's tag identifier, enter search details, hit "search", wait, wait, wait.... etc. I dunno. Bloody daft idea.
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
Bode Swiller, Well I think it would need to be linked to a hand held satnave device or mobile phone app. for it to have practical application minute to minute on a moutain
|
|
|
|
|
|
Bode Swiller wrote: |
So, you lose little Jimmy up the mountain. Quick... |
...enjoy the rest of your holiday in a relaxing fashion, free from the attention of your "Ankle Biter"?
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
Alton towers have this, really.
Maybe a better idea would be to attach them to drunk people who get lost around resort.
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
I'm sorry? Taking children on a skiing holiday?
a) what are school trips for?
b) what are grandparents for
c) what is a nanny for? (Well, one of the things)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Can I get one to attach to my husband ?
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
Bode Swiller wrote: |
...So, you lose little Jimmy up the mountain. Quick, whip the laptop out of the rucksack, set up the solar recharging, boot up, log in, find a wi fi, open the application, log in, locate little Jimmy's tag identifier, enter search details, hit "search", wait, wait, wait.... etc. I dunno. Bloody daft idea. |
Would get out your Blackberry or iPhone, hit the relevant app, and see where Jimmy is? Could be quite a good idea to be used as a last resort.
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
achilles, I was obviously not being serious but it still is a white elephant. You gotta be a seriously poor instructor to lose a child on the mountain.
Give 'em radios maybe:
"Jimmy, where are you?"
"I dunno, I'm lost"
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
Bode Swiller, This poor Jimmy sure gets in a lot of strife
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
Bode Swiller,
I met one such instructor in val d'isere. I was about 7/8 yr old, at the back of the "queue" following said instructor down the mountain, and fell over. By the time I was back on my skis, I could not see or find the group anymore.
I wasn't really phased. I spent the remaining of the lesson skiing on my own, then met everyone up at the rally point.
When I told my parents they had a go at her. I can't remember what her excuses were then but the next day she accused me of lying on front of the group... I wish I'd had the balls to just ski off at that point but i kept quiet..
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
Kruisler's story is unbelievable, and terrifying.
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
Was there over christmas, there is a code for each of the trackers that attaches to the kids legs which is given to the kid/parent at the end of the each day so they can see where they went on the mountain, distance travelled, Descent and speeds. There tracker also has a ultra bright led flashing on it which helps with spotting a kid in low light in addition to the bright red bibs they had on.
There is proximity tag to an instructor for the lesson so if the kid is more then 200 meters away it signals the instructor and the office of the distance. To be fair it did not seem to stop the instructors stopping and doing head counts every time I wanted to go fast past them in my level 4 ski esprit lesson
These are also available for people taking private lessons and have been in some of the other resorts in the group for a couple of years -some of the people I met there with kids in lessons found it added piece of mind rather then more worries!
Personally I was just miffed they were not free to adults on lessons - a tracker for me would have cost and extra $20 Canadian a day.
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
I can see a use for the "physical relationship to guests" if someone decided to wander off with a kid from ski school - all too often there's an opportunity for someone to groom a kid and get them to ski off with them etc - this is going to act as more of a deterrent than anything, but if it prevents one kid going missing with a dodgy adult then it makes some sense - I don't really see a downside to this. Nobody in their right mind would rely on this as a system to keep a group together would they?
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Poor Jimmy has obviously not been told to ski towards some obvious landmark before using his radio.
A Minimum would likey radio us and say "I'm standing next to the inflatable chipmunk in the ski school area" or "I'm in front of the restaurant with the big knife and fork above it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Monium wrote: |
I can see a use for the "physical relationship to guests" if someone decided to wander off with a kid from ski school - all too often there's an opportunity for someone to groom a kid and get them to ski off with them etc .... |
I have never been aware of that happening. Do you know of an instance?
|
|
|
|
|
|
test_freak wrote: |
Was there over christmas, there is a code for each of the trackers that attaches to the kids legs which is given to the kid/parent at the end of the each day so they can see where they went on the mountain, distance travelled, Descent and speeds. There tracker also has a ultra bright led flashing on it which helps with spotting a kid in low light in addition to the bright red bibs they had on. |
These people must be completely potty. Next they'll want to remote-control their children around every mogul.
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
Monium wrote: |
I can see a use for the "physical relationship to guests" if someone decided to wander off with a kid from ski school - all too often there's an opportunity for someone to groom a kid and get them to ski off with them etc - this is going to act as more of a deterrent than anything, but if it prevents one kid going missing with a dodgy adult then it makes some sense - I don't really see a downside to this. Nobody in their right mind would rely on this as a system to keep a group together would they? |
Ah the old 'if it will save only one child, then any measure is justifiable' argument. Textbook.
I'm actually surprised you were able to type that at all, wringing your hands as you presumably were.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ernst Goldsmith wrote: |
test_freak wrote: |
Was there over christmas, there is a code for each of the trackers that attaches to the kids legs which is given to the kid/parent at the end of the each day so they can see where they went on the mountain, distance travelled, Descent and speeds. There tracker also has a ultra bright led flashing on it which helps with spotting a kid in low light in addition to the bright red bibs they had on. |
These people must be completely potty. Next they'll want to remote-control their children around every mogul. |
i'd pay $30 Canadian a day for some one to remote control me around moguls, there were some right killers on the Crusier piste the day i took it!
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
achilles wrote: |
Monium wrote: |
I can see a use for the "physical relationship to guests" if someone decided to wander off with a kid from ski school - all too often there's an opportunity for someone to groom a kid and get them to ski off with them etc .... |
I have never been aware of that happening. Do you know of an instance? |
Never known it happen where someone actually did it, have seen lots of kids standing around looking lost. Often I or one of my group has asked where parents/instructor is, and within a few minutes they turn up, either coming off the lift or down a slope to meet them. If that way inclined, that kind of opportunity could easily be exploited. Luckily this isn't a real threat/danger because 99.999% of adults are good people who look out for kids, but could happen, and if a little tag on the kid makes it less likely, I don't see an issue with doing that. Don't see a reason not to have them - it only takes for one kid to take a wrong turn and get lost, an instructor not to notice for a bit, and suddenly there's a young child skiing on the mountain with no idea where they are and a load of other people who may not speak the same language trying to help them but not aware of where they've come from - as a child I cycled off into a massive park in France on a family holiday, and I can tell you that getting lost in another country for 2 hours as a 6 year old is one of the scariest things in the world, being on a mountain in potentially cold conditions makes that even less pleasant.
I know this is all very Daily Mail and watch out there's a paedo on every corner, but actually there are risks in getting lost on a mountain, and these include other people you don't know, who might be perfectly nice and normal. Or they might want to target children - having these kinds of tags makes an effective deterrent IMO. The downside is not to use these instead of the usual look and listen for where your kids are - I don't think that's going to change in a hurry.
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
One thing I thought would be a good idea.... not just for kids but any group
A scanner station setup that you can use at places that have wireless lift passes that enable you to "group" certain passes. Then you can see on screen after you scan your own pass as part of the group the other members "last lift" used.
This idea could be expanded to include checkpoint stations at key positions on the mountain "a ski through gate" that logs if you went one direction or another, and also at restaurants.
Could be also useful for eliminating false lost person reports (shows position in a bar)
For the masses though smartphones do this already but is currently expensive due to handset cost and availability of the same software across different phones.
|
|
|
|
|
|
achilles wrote: |
Monium wrote: |
I can see a use for the "physical relationship to guests" if someone decided to wander off with a kid from ski school - all too often there's an opportunity for someone to groom a kid and get them to ski off with them etc .... |
I have never been aware of that happening. Do you know of an instance? |
I'll need to watch my step - I routinely talk to ski school kids who get loaded up into my lift-chair and heaven forbid, place my hands on their rear-ends to propel them safely away from the chair at the top. What would that look like to the roving Daily Mail journo?
I even stop to pick up kids who've fallen over, as indeed did numerous passing strangers recently to help my wobbly youngest to her feet when a combination of tired legs and thick snow conspired against her.
The thought of being remote controlled round moguls is very attractive, though.
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
Touching young boys' bottoms on a chair lift is fine so long as neither of you get an erection.
I don't quite understand the rules for girls I'm afraid.
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
I thought groomers were far too busy flattening snow?
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
paulio wrote: |
Touching young boys' bottoms on a chair lift is fine so long as neither of you get an erection.
I don't quite understand the rules for girls I'm afraid. |
Could be that discretion is the better part of valour henceforth and I should just let them get bashed on the head by the chair they've just got off.
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
Since no one else has mentioned it -
It is a service offered by http://flaik.com/ and it is offered at a number of resorts.
They tell you the 'code' for your GPS and you can log onto the flaik website and view stats such as how much vertical you did, where you went, which tree you ducked behind to take a wizz etc
It is possible - however I don't think it is done - to watch a computer screen and watch all the green dots ski around - when it turns orange the kid is x meters away from instructor, and turns red at y meters away. So potentially a 'dispatch operator' could be aware of a separated kid / adult before either they or the instructor are aware. You could use it for a lot more applications too - so I think the company is onto a good idea.
I was not aware it was an extra charge for some people - I was under the impression it was free for anyone in a lesson if they wanted it. However in the main adult lessons, the instructor is not wearing one but you could use it as mentioned above to track your ski day. I will have to ask about that.
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
Bode Swiller wrote: |
You gotta be a seriously poor instructor to lose a child on the mountain. |
Yesterday morning I was waiting for my class to arrive and one of the locals asked me to watch his class of 5 years olds for a few mins.
He had put them all on the lift with an adult each and then gone up last. 2 of the kids when they arrived at the top of the lift, caught sight of the mates and just skied off with them. Luckily they are only small and so can’t ski that fast – he found em within a few mins.
Mind you my class (adults) turned up half an hour late as they had a lay in bed and late breakfast.
Most times it's not the instructor who loses a kid, it's the other way round and it's then the instructor who then finds em ??
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
wbsr - spoke to the ski school on the ski esprit programme on this whilst there over Christmas. Currently there are only 2000 Flaik units in Whistler resort and it is being trailed with the Kids programmes and Private Lessons. Intrawest also have this in other resorts but the Whistler implementation is the largest yet so the ski school thought.
I saw other GPS systems on rent in resort but not the flaiks, however the ski school were seeking peoples view on if they where available would people rent them or would they want them bundled in next year as part of the service however this just might be sounding people out as market research rather then a serious intent for investment for next season.
Watched your website whilst I was out there and found it most useful, hopefully back next year (though tempted cannot really get a second trip to Whistler this season past my bank manager )!
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
paulio wrote: |
Touching young boys' bottoms on a chair lift is fine so long as neither of you get an erection.. |
Well it is pretty cold.
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Hi,
You can get something that monitors your location via gps if you have a gps device that can transmit data. iphone, blackberrys, google phones and htc phones.
check out.... http://www.instamapper.com
(its a free product, but you will incur a mobile phone data charge)
Dave
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, I'm quite bemused at the backlash. As an instructor at a decidedly low-tech, big mountain, I'd really appriciate this system. It's blatently not going to stop instructors counting, checking and looking out for kids, it's pretty much half of the job.
Look at it from the instructors point of view - our duty of care responsibilities are absolutely crushing and are the biggest issue in the job I'm in. Making sod all money isn't too bad, but the fear of a kid getting hurt or lost on your watch is a valid and real one. Bode Swiller, I don't think you'll find many professional instructors working with children that've done a few seasons that haven't had a child zoom off. It's so easy in so many circumstances for a group to get seperated - the skill is dealing with it to minimise the chance of it happening, then when it does, minimise the impact. A gps tag would be brilliant for that (and I assume would take a simple call or radio to a supervisor).
|
|
|
|
|
|
Of course if one were to be realistic, it's about keeping an eye on what the instructors are up to
Quote: |
at the end of the each day so they can see where they went on the mountain, distance travelled, Descent and speeds
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
Actually got to try this out a couple of sundays ago with my regular weekend group - company that Whistler use were demoing them in Fernie. My day's up on their site - www.flaik.com - you'll probably need an account, but put in Fernie Alpine Resort, Sunday 14th Feb, tracker ID CMS-2 if anyone's interested....
Personally, I'm a fan - got a lot of positive feedback and interest from parents and people on the hill. Not so sure about the ankle tag lowjack things rather than a bib or similar, but the master tracking system for the ski school was pretty clever. Can't imagine they'll introduce anything this expensive looking here, but still...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|