 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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skiing in alp d'huez a few years ago about to start the tunnel run, I saw a man with a baby in a rucksack just like this, about to set off. I pointed this out to my esf instructor who went mad at the guy and sent him back down the lift!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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davidof, classic Daily Mail - a mile up the flat miners track, round the lake and back again. a lovely, safe, exhilerating walk in spectacular conditions. Good on them
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A misleading and mendacious (word of the year 2010) story in the Daily Mail! Whatever next?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Going a mile or so along the Miners Track and back isn't much more difficult than a Sunday stroll in a Park if you are properly equipped and those folks clearly are! Bet the rugrat had a whale of a time playing in the snow up by the lake, all mine certainly would have at that age. I've probably got a photo or two somewhere of some of them on my back in one of those carriers in similar weather and they are all very much alive and well still!
Note what the Mountain Rescue chap said, 'I hope they're not heading towards the summit or going high up the mountain, because there are gale force winds and temperatures down to minus 4 or 5.' He didn't say they shouldn't be going out and out for a couple of hours having walked a mile or so certainly wouldn't take them high.
Typical knee jerk nanny reporting from the Daily Mail and I hate to think what they'd have said if they'd been there exactly a year ago just a mile or so down the road where the Penn Y Pass joins the Bedgelert road, Me, my best mate Vicky and my 3 kids aged 4, 9 and 13 and several hundred other people aged from about 2 to somewhere well past pension age were happy skating on the frozen lake just by that junction (shock horror everyone will die  ) several hours a day for several days (oh forgot to mention the paraglider that put in a landing on the ice as well!)
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Fri 1-01-10 12:56; edited 1 time in total
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The guy who ran the lodge I used to stay in at Whistler skied with his baby daughter in a rucksack many times when we were there and took huge offence when Ski patrol banned him from doing it - he just couldn't get his head around the fact it may have been slightly dangerous!
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Walking with a small child in a backpack like that in poor conditions can be risky as the kid can get very cold very quickly without you realising as they aren't doing much work compared to you. But if the parents understand the risks and the walk is reasonably short and isn't going too high into the hills I can't see what the problem is/was. All three of them look well equiped for the conditions. Would they (the Mail) have made the same complaints if the kid ahd been toddling around not in the backpack?
Press articles like this is why we have a majority of sedentary kids, who don't play on their own outside without parental supervision, don't walk/cycle to school, are poor at assesing risk as they grow older and are fat/unfit.
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davkt, wot davkt said. I hope they had a great walk. I presume the DM would prefer them to be a family of couch potatoes.
Can't see what this has to do with 'The Piste', though.
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It's insane to carry a small child in a backpack in sub-zero conditions. Several children have experienced frostbite and amputations - I think there have even been deaths - in this situation. A naive parent may well take a decision to give a little kid an experience like this, without realising that the immobile child could freeze to death or suffer permanent injury.
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Not insane if you consider what you are doing just like crossing the road is safe if you look and think and insane if you don't ! The fact my 3 kids are still alive with all hands, feet, fingers and toes and noses un-frost bitten proves it can be done perfect safely and in a way kids will love.
What is insane is the assumption anyone who does anything outside the average couch potatoe's comfort zone is being irresponsible.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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FFS - it was just a walk in the snow an a flatish path, nothing more, nothing less
lets put this into some perspective, how many parents take their children to lapland each christmas and walk in the snow and with temps of below -20 in some cases? I have seen many and many more less equipped than the family mentioned in this report
then lets look at another peice from the same paper, on the same day
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1239722/Jamie-Oliver-family-walking-winter-wonderland-festive-break.html
if people from places such as finland, sweden etc were to see this artical they may never venture outside with their children again, it must be so dangerous for them to live in such places 
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Fri 1-01-10 14:12; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Did the child have a say in being forced to endure those horrible conditions? A child of that age would rather be inside playing with toys - not being given an initiation ceremony in (passive) survival techniques.
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do you have children david?
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You know it makes sense.
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I have two knitted daughters
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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taken them skiing before or out on a sledge?
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Poster: A snowHead
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Both
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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did they have a say in doing such activities?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Yes
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at what age did you first take your children out in the snow?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I was 37
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well you should have known better then and social services should have been called 
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If it was no more than a couple of hours and relatively flat as folks above say, then I think the child would have been OK. I agree with the comments above, everyone looks well kitted out, the child clearly has fluffy insulated clothes and mits on, who knows she may even have had little warmers in her mits and boots. The rucksack carrier also has a shield over her head which will have keep the wind and snow off. I don't think skiing with a child on the back like that would be a good idea, but providing the walk doesn't expose the child unduly to extreme elements and they were only out for a couple of hours before giving her a chance to stretch her legs I think she will have been fine.
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David Sockpuppet's daughter speaking. I can vouch for his word that the desire to be exposed to such wintry conditions was indeed expressed by myself and I still remember vividly those magical snowy moments. Life would surely lose meaning if we never took risks for the sake of a new experience. That child will now have some great anecdotes (and photographic evidence) that could last him/her till their dying day. Imagine, in twenty years time, as a fully grown male/female they could use it as a chat up line, perhaps it could bloom into a relationship, marriage, even. My my I'm jealous of that child.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I wouldn't expose a goat to those conditions
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better tell that to the whole of scandinavia then - gosh it is suprising that children actually survive out in those places
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Looks like that child will have a very exciting and broad uprbringing. Just like my daughter (and our friends babies) tossed around in the high seas aboard yachts in all weathers..... now worldly wise, accomplished sailors and at the age of 30 still very much alive with all limbs attached!
For some reason many people in this country have lost the will to be adventurous, and by that I don`t mean taking stupid risks.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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There's a big difference between a child taking an active part in an outdoor activity in freezing conditions, and a child being strapped into a backpack. The former plays a useful role in blood circulation.
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| David Sockpuppet wrote: |
| I wouldn't expose a goat to those conditions |
Better ask Megamum for an expert opinion on that one, David. 
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You know it makes sense.
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whilst I fully see where you are coming from David as regards to circulation you have to question why for years people who live in cold areas such as Scandinavia transport their young in the same manner?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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The answer is he wouldn't be able to get a goat out in those conditions. You should see me trying to get mine to plant even two cleats in the snow when it falls here - nothing doing, even if the food is in the other shed 
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Poster: A snowHead
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There's the difference: the goat's got the strength and instincts of self-survival.
The child (probably packed up in the backpack in the warmth of a building) is passive. The parent may well be innocently ignorant of the dreadful consequences of exposure.
Could the family be sure that the visibility wouldn't shut down? Was it a risk worth taking?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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That child is probably less at risk of cold than she would be on a Cornish beach on an average day in June. And in much less danger than she would be on the same beach on a hot sunny day in June, with just a token smear of sunscreen.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Maybe we need to search out the several cases in the past decade where children have suffered terrible consequences of this sort of negligence. They were widely documented in the media at the time.
Mountains don't have predictable weather, and things can turn deadly within minutes in a snowstorm (in case the photo above suggests some sort of guarantee that everything would be OK).
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David Sockpuppet I suppose you live in a cotton wool lined box where everything is predictable? Just because there have been cases of negligence (or more likely stupidity) it doesn't mean everyone taking their kids out in the snow are being irresponsible. Visibility makes things easier but is by no means essential for finding your way on the mountains and even in a whiteout it ain't that hard to follow the miners track!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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David Sockpuppet, you are wasting opportunities you know. While you are on here writing about these things you could be actually seeking out and putting right many real-life situations where end users may not be aware of the terms and conditions that apply to their situation.
You could be the next superhero - maybe you could call yourself "Supersock" who's mission is to inject gibberish where before there was plain speaking, to spread confusion where there was once understanding and tedious repetition where before there was interest and newness.
Go Supersock, go - seek out pleasure and inflict your numbness. Reduce the rest of the world to tearing their hair out as you have to this forum. You can do it Supersock, the world awaits you...
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Won't somebody think of the children? *leaves anonymous message with social services telling them that Snowdonia "mountain mom" has left the sofa*
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What's David Sockpuppet doing at snowhead?
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Could the family be sure that the visibility wouldn't shut down? Was it a risk worth taking? |
In that same article there's mentioning of 3 people dying from car crashes. Is that a risk worth taking? (especially with toddler who have no say in such car journey)
Should we all be staying at home at ALL times???
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Fri 1-01-10 23:22; edited 2 times in total
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Ray Zorro, You have reminded me of why I am proud to be a snowHead!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I saw someone descending the north ridge of Tryfan with a baby on his back. He had to turn back halfway down due to the steepness *tut tut*
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