 Poster: A snowHead
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The last day of my holiday to the 3 Valleys was marred by a crash on the exit of a chair lift - apart from a sore knee, which meant I took the rest of the (slushy) afternoon off, I was OK, but I kept wondering if there was something I could do better... TBH the sore knee would have been ignored a lot more in softer snow, but the heavy slush I kept encountering was making it hurt more...
Anyway, full 6 person chair, with exit after 90 degree turn, me 1 from the left, 4 unknowns (2 brits, who queued like the French) to the right. Various randoms standing chatting straight ahead of me and in front to the right. Lots of space if you turned hard right. One tiny gap slightly to left, one to the right (taken by brit to right), boarder standing broadside in front of me. Everyone gets off chair at the same time, me a fraction behind as I always seem to get a bit stuck on these 90 degree turn chairs. Had a couple of seconds to attempt to snowplough and discover I had absolutely no space to snowplough, I could feel my neighbour's skis if not completely parallel. Had time to say "Help (or something along those lines, certainly 4 letters long) no space to stop or slow" and ended up stopping by colliding with the boarder and landing in a tangled heap at his feet. Didn't have enough momentum to push him over and let go before I pulled him on top of me! Got hit by next load off the chair as well - certainly felt someone's ski hit my arm, but they didn't fall. Someone undid my bindings (no chance of them popping off, even at a really low setting - it was a very slow fall) and I got out of the way as quickly as possible as I didn't want to be run over as well. Apparently when OH went up the same lift later, the lifties were policing the "get out of the unloading area" concept somewhat better... I think the worst thing was seeing that I was going to have to hit someone and having no idea what to do, or how to stop it - time seemed to slow down, it just didn't help!
So how do I avoid this undignified and painful (and potentially injurious to knee ligaments - slow speed falls being the most likely culprit for women) situation in the future? I couldn't tell when I got on the lift that that would be the issue, and you can't exactly force people not to get on the chair with you...
Is there a magic way of stopping when really pushed for space and skis are forced to remain parallel?
What are the likely consequences of continuing to push a snowplough out when you can feel you are just touching someone else's skis? Instinctively I thought I would probably end up causing a domino effect and ending with someone else on top of me, which would hurt worse...
Should I have turned hard into one of my fellow chairlift occupiers and forced the issue? Presumably this would have failed due to encounters with other skis and led to dominoes.
Or would somewhat louder anglo-saxon/french expletives have solved the problem before it happened?
The control freak in me doesn't like the fact that I can think of no better options than the one I ended up taking (collision) and avoiding full chairlifts isn't really practical - once you're through the gate you are committed to taking that chair!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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At times running into people is the only option - they shouldn't have been standing there. I am not adverse to skiing over someone's skis or board if required.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Sorry to hear that, and good luck for the recovery. If it's any consolation, chairlift departure and arrival points are infinitely safer than they were 20 years ago. Detachable slow-speed start and finish have helped enormously. Your experience is probably a lesson that it's best to shoot off the chair before your neighbours, if possible.
I once arrived at the top of the chair at Tignes which gets you back off the glacier and up to the Grande Motte top station. I wasn't concentrating and my monoski (at that time) hooked its tip on the arrival ramp. I was pulled under the chair, locked to the equipment, as the chair continued forwards.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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all I can suggest is get off first, or hang back and get off last.......
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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If you're out of control and have no way of avoiding a crash - sit down. Applies to many other places, not just lifts. In this case it sounds like it's other people's fault for not getting out the way after exitting the lift though.
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I had to have cartilage removed following an incident when I found my skis locked with the skier next to me and I had a bad fall. I am now very careful watching how my skis are aligned with my neighbours' when I am on a big multi-seat chair and am very careful on the line I take (straight ahead, skis parallel, initially) as I ski out.
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making sure you are all the way to the end of the chair helps because it gives you some more room. in your situation it sounds like the people blocking the exit were at fault (with a dishonourable mention to the person to your left who should have turned to their left to give everyone a bit more room) and i wouldn't feel too guilty about skiing over their skis or into them if there is nothing else you can do
don't think clarky999's idea of sitting down is a great one. once you're in that position you have pretty much lost any chance of regaining control and it's also a great position from which to snap an ACL
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achilles,
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I am now very careful watching how my skis are aligned with my neighbours' when I am on a big multi-seat chair and am very careful on the line I take (straight ahead, skis parallel, initially) as I ski out.
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Me too, and if someone on either side (hoping it's not both!) does something completely daft, I'll attempt to follow their capricious line, rather than snowploughing - so dangerous indeed at slow speed, a slow collision is probably less so - or maintaining my own intended direction. All the more reason to do this if you're actually locked on to your neighbour's ski! 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I had a scary incident on a chairlift in la rosiere. Stood up to get off the lift and realised the cord of my hood was stuck in the chair - yanked it and it came - by then chair too high off ground so jumped on skis and landed safely with no broken legs just before the chair turned to get downhill again. It was a terrifying moment and the stupid lift operator can't have been looking as he didn't slow or stop the lift. I dread to think what would have happened if I hadn't pulled my hood free at that time.
My husband has had two nasty incidences of missing getting on the lift properly and falling under it..thankfully he was uninjured both times.
To go back to OP..the people should have moved out the way when they got off so it wasn't your fault you hit one of them..not sure what I would have done in your position..except shout MOVE.....ATTENTION!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I think the problem is that I like to ski like I drive - I don't care if the crash isn't my fault, I keep thinking that with proper planning I wouldn't have had it regardless... Sitting down was considered (I had a lot of time!), but I would almost certainly have ended up with a person weighing in the region of 80kg ending up on top of me, which would have hurt worse than hugging a boarder before sitting down...
Got off last once - it was an "interesting" feeling as I dropped the couple of inches to the snow!
Getting off first is never going to happen - I seem to have a rubbish push off the chair...
Person to left (OH) did try, but there was no space that way at all - the tiny gap he found was just that - I wouldn't have made it there. I have a vague memory of netting - these 90 degree turning chairs seem to push you in the direction they're turning (Tougnette 2 between Meribel and Val Thorens for those that know it)
Usually I am definitely of the skis parallel, gentle push, duck in case I'm a bit slow and the chair is after me, look for a safe place to consult piste map/direction signs, but a little snowplough would have slowed me enough to reduce the collision velocity
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Mon 22-03-10 13:09; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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If people are standing in the way of a chair lift exit, give them a warning shout. If they don't move, then they will get skied into. It's their fault, not the person who has just come off the chairlift.
When you ski into someone in that situation, don't snow plough. If you fall in a snow plough position, you're more likely to damage your knees. Keep your skis parallel and fall with them both aligned. Preferably using the person who is in your way as a cushion.
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i guess the other thing you could have tried is taking some speed off by planting both poles in front of you and using them to slow you down (needs some care so you don't jar your shoulders) and let the other people on the lift get ahead of you. you'd then have room to snowplough or whatever
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You know it makes sense.
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If you find it generally difficult to get on an off I'd sit on the far right of the chair with poles in left hand. Shuffle forward on chair before getting off and use right hand to push chair away and yourself forward..ski off to right away from others at the top.
By the way this is just what I do ..others may say it isn't the best strategy!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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+1 for getting off last and +1 for avoiding being sat next to a boarder. Being on the outside seats also helps.
Be confident, though that can take time.
Thinking about it, have never actually done this yet, so am probably honour bound to take out someone dithering at the exit.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I think it's generally better to go for an outside chair on the 6/8 mans as there's often more space on that side to ski off.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Randomsabreur, tricky but I do not think you could have done much except bumping in to the boarder. I had a similar situation a couple of days ago where a skier for no apparent reason fell within a few feet of leaving the chair in front of us, we were a group of four (two boarders and two skiers) on a four man chair and managed to avoid the sprawled skier. Always let boarders sit in the outside seats because they have difficulty in doing much more than going straight off a lift (to slow or stop they need to put the board sideways which is not good in a cramped chair lift exit) and if they do fall they can do so without 'taking out' some else and can scurry to the side out of the way.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Get of first, and get of quick seems to work for me, shuffle forward on the seat as the chair comes in and push forward hard. This always gives me enough room for a quick skate which puts me way ahead of the game.
6 and 8 pack chairs have got carnage written all over them, makes sense to remember who made a pigs ear of getting on the lift at the bottom, as a good bet same problems getting off.
As for people blocking the run out...loud vocal "get the f"" out the way" in your language of choice, if they fail to move remember to drop the shoulder into them it makes for a softer landing 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I always try to get off first and get out of the way of everyone else. Doesn't seem like you had that option though sadly. Perhaps as others mention get the very end seat?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Stay on the chair.
If you're faced with an inevitable collision on dismounting, just don't.
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andyph, having, presumably, checked first that a liftie is looking in your general direction and might, if you're exceptionally lucky, stop the chair?
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Hurtle, nah, just go round for another ride. Enjoy the view and make sure you shuffle to the end by the time you get back down to the bottom! 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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andyph,
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I kick back with 1 foot/knee at the chair and use my poles to push off... gives the tiny bit of momentum to be in front of the others on the chair so i can make my line when things are tight...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
If you're faced with an inevitable collision on dismounting, just don't.
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actually, that's not such a bad idea. I have two sisters in law who were badly injured on a chairlift dismount. One (New Zealand) with a very bad fracture of the lower leg which took 18 months and a bone graft to heal. The other, very slow topple in France, ending in an ACL reconstruction. Going round again has to be a better option, but you might need to yell loudly at the liftie at the bottom to avoid a "skier on lap" situation. You might also need, depending on the design of the chair, to lift the bar and lift your skis well up.
People who clutter up the unloading areas are a terrible pain and definitely deserve to be crashed into. I've been with instructors who've spoken sharply ("dégagez!" - is that the right expression?) but I usually just mutter and moan.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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andyph, beat me to it - stay on the chair.
Most are equipped with a safety trip that will stop the lift if you carry on round. Just don't lift your legs over the little bar that senses if you're there.
The worst that can happen is you incur the wrath of the liftie but if there's a blockage in the exit then that's partly his own fault for not slowing the lift down.
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I don't think I could manage to stay on the chair - I am nervous enough as it is!
On the approach, it looked like we'd need to be careful, but not an impossible problem - there was a clear way out if everyone went straight a little bit, then all turn to the right - plenty of space for all. Unfortunately the people to my right didn't bother looking and planning for the others on the chair. The queue for the lift was a bit of a scrum as everyone seemed to be heading for VT as it was warm and it was all getting very slushy in Meribel/Courchevel. The lifty didn't even stop the lift after the collision - think the next chair was emptier, or the right hand end people were more on the ball!
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You know it makes sense.
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Get off first and avoid the cluster**** or wait til last so you can see how the chips have fallen. Latter scenario does create risk of being clouted by chaior as it goes round bullwheel.
Real hazzards IMV are lazy lifties who don't dig out chairs enough creating a risk that boot top gets caught under chair on exit.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Randomsabreur, Fat, long, rockered skis. Just ride over everyone else like they are a ripple in the powder 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Randomsabreur, I heard of someone in Les Arcs last week who was getting off a 90degree turn lift (the new Arpette lift). It has a little kick if you dont get away fast, & it hit her leg & broke it! She had to be helicoptered off the mountain
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Someone who has just passed the SCGB reps course took me out at Serre Che getting of a chair a few weeks ago, could feel my MCLs stretch. Incompetent muppet. 
Normally I adopt the fatbob strategy.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I got a proper telling off from an instructor in italy last year, came off the lift and someone was stood still, with her back to me (and the lift) so I tried to avoid her and ended up all wrong and falling over. My instructor stood over me and shouted that I should have just gone straight into her. It was the start of a very bad day!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Ski straight in to the bugs with your poles out in front of you 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Ronald wrote: |
| ... and use my poles to push off... |
Now, i've got to suggest thats perhaps not a great idea - i've had people try to pole plant on my board many times and a situation where skier planted their pole straight into my back binding and got the basket caught, as he'd also got his wrist straps on, he pulled us both over trying to free his pole.
Best keep poles clear and wrist straps off IMHO...
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| Richard_Sideways wrote: |
| Ronald wrote: |
| ... and use my poles to push off... |
Now, i've got to suggest thats perhaps not a great idea - i've had people try to pole plant on my board many times and a situation where skier planted their pole straight into my back binding and got the basket caught, as he'd also got his wrist straps on, he pulled us both over trying to free his pole.
Best keep poles clear and wrist straps off IMHO... |
I disagree. One should always take proper care: i plant my poles in front of me, so i see where they go, not behind me in your bindings.
You are opening 2 cans of worms however... Some people do not take care handling poles at all (Swinging them preferably at kids-eye-height for example... some actually reach my eye height... and thats indeed special as i'm 6'1) and some boarders tend to be a bit careless when walking/loading/unloading with the board in queues...
We should all use a lot more care and consideration in crowds.... Would solve pretty much all situations this thread is about!
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Ronald, thats fair, people who are taking care of what they are doing and aware of whats going on around them aren't a problem, whether they're on skis or a board. I don't think particularly fair to say boarders are any more careless than anyone else.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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These ever bigger chair lifts do seem to have their issues on the exit though I'm not sure why the OP is snowploughing when space is at a premium leaving the chair.
| Ronald wrote: |
| ... and use my poles to push off... |
Please don't do this, it is not necessary and is the cause of people planting a pole in-between my skis which doesn't end well.
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FAQ
