 Poster: A snowHead
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As we all know, Unite's plans to destroy Christmas for a million people have been declared unlawful. The union has pledged to hold another ballot, and they're likely to win it. This morning's FT says that the entire ballot-to-strike process takes a minimum of 28 days. Add in Christmas, and the earliest possible date for a strike is around 20 January.
That date's only a couple of weeks before half term. I imagine Unite will therefore seek to maximise the strike's impact by aiming for the school holidays.
I wish I'd had the sense to book with a better airline  . Anyone else flying with BA that week?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Jonny Jones, I'm not entirely convinced that they would win a second ballot. My perception from the reaction both from the public and some of the BA staff involved is that there would be more reluctance on the part of the staff to agree to "industrial action" knowing that it would be turned into a full on strike. I get the impression that not a few of the cabin crew members themselves were going to have their own holidays ruined...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Jonny Jones wrote: |
As we all know, Unite's plans to destroy Christmas for a million people have been declared unlawful. The union has pledged to hold another ballot, and they're likely to win it. This morning's FT says that the entire ballot-to-strike process takes a minimum of 28 days. Add in Christmas, and the earliest possible date for a strike is around 20 January.
That date's only a couple of weeks before half term. I imagine Unite will therefore seek to maximise the strike's impact by aiming for the school holidays.
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It is entirely possible that they would be that stupid, although if the leadership had any brains, they would have taken note of the sympathy (NIL) thaht they seemed to get from the public this time, and perhaps call any strike at a time that would hurt the business most and the general public least.
But the union leadership appear to be dinosaurs who just enjoy showing everybody else the power they have.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| alex_heney wrote: |
| It is entirely possible that they would be that stupid, although if the leadership had any brains, they would have taken note of the sympathy (NIL) thaht they seemed to get from the public this time |
I hope you're right, but I'm not confident. Press reports from before the court hearing yesterday suggested that BA cabin crew were being advised to change out of their uniforms as soon as they finished their shifts to avoid becoming embroiled in confrontation with the public. What surprised me was the cabin crew seemed to be surprised at the level of hostility they were encountering. A dangerous mix of selfishness and naivité seem to reign supreme in most union-dominated workforces.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Hell hath no fury like a marxist scorned
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Well I only have so much sympathy. If you elect a rampant socialist governnment then rampant socialism is what you get.
As I see it you have 3 choices:
1) Leave the country.
2) Get involved in politics, (grassroots or otherwise) and put a stop to it.
3) Get over it and stop bleating about it.
Any one who voted in a party who is willing to tolerate such activities, is personally responsible for the state of affairs, even if thats not you, probabilities are that it means some of your close friends.
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IMHO there won't be a strike over half term. Unite/BASSA are licking their wounds over the recent judgement, they're not appealing but will reissue the ballot. Judging by the public outcry and also some of the feedback from their own members wrt 12 days over xmas/new years I doubt whether they will go for 1/2 term.
The courts are due to adjudicate on whether changes made by BA to their working arrangements are a breach of their contract and, if so, whether BA was justified in making these changes. I would guess that the courts will rule in favour of BA - but it is only a guess.
The majority of the CC don't want a strike and some have expressed that they feel let down by both BA mgmt and their own union - if there is a re ballot I wouldn't be surprised if the answer is a weakened yes vote. However, the prospect of BA taking the Unite union to court for damages of unlawful action and illegal strikes (from the past as well wrt Gate Gourmet) hangs over the Union's heads.
All in all, there may be a ballot, the result will probably be a weakened Yes % but there won't be a strike. All IMHO of course.
Cheers
BB
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nixmap, haha well said.
In fairness, the current Government was a central-right government when it was elected...
the current Stalinist Prime Minister was not elected, but how many Stalinists are? Am I allowed to use that 4 letter word beginning with "c" in to describe that loathsome specimen of a human being or is pleasure reserved by Jeremy Clarkson?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
If you elect a rampant socialist governnment then rampant socialism is what you get.
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Not really a socialist party (given their ideas on taxation), just impotent and toothless. The unions do however always have them over a barrel because they couldn't survive without union funding(....which is why they are so keen to have state/public funding) - so they have been weak during previous strikes (fire service, postal etc).
From what I can gather, many who voted for the strike didn't appreciate the union was hellbent on causing chaos and probably also should realise how well they are paid compared with the rest of the industry.
Still I wouldn't be surprised if Half term was the next target.
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| nixmap wrote: |
| If you elect a rampant socialist governnment then rampant socialism is what you get... Any one who voted in a party who is willing to tolerate such activities, is personally responsible for the state of affairs |
What you say has some truth. But no-one in the UK voted for Brown as prime minister. At the last election, Blair - who, for all his faults, certainly wasn't a socialist - promised to stand for a full parliamentary term but was effectively forced out by Brown and his allies in a little over two years. In so doing, the parliamentary Labour party betrayed the trust of the British public and further dragged the reputation of politicians into the gutter. When he seized power, Brown rejected calls for an election because knew that he stood no chance of surviving a public vote, so he's clinging to office for the longest possible time permitted under our unwritten constitution.
The cynic in me wonders if he's adopting a scorched-earth policy before being forced from office by an angry public next year.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Jonny Jones wrote: |
| nixmap wrote: |
| If you elect a rampant socialist governnment then rampant socialism is what you get... Any one who voted in a party who is willing to tolerate such activities, is personally responsible for the state of affairs |
What you say has some truth. But no-one in the UK voted for Brown as prime minister. At the last election, Blair - who, for all his faults, certainly wasn't a socialist - promised to stand for a full parliamentary term but was effectively forced out by Brown and his allies in a little over two years. In so doing, the parliamentary Labour party betrayed the trust of the British public and further dragged the reputation of politicians into the gutter. When he seized power, Brown rejected calls for an election because knew that he stood no chance of surviving a public vote, so he's clinging to office for the longest possible time permitted under our unwritten constitution.
The cynic in me wonders if he's adopting a scorched-earth policy before being forced from office by an angry public next year. |
I hear you.
Doesnt change the facts, and with respect for your points perhaps I could alter the options above
As I see it you now have 4 choices:
1) Leave the country.
2) Get involved in politics, (grassroots or otherwise) and put a stop to it.
3) Get over it and stop bleating about it.
4) Aplogise for your gross voting error in the last election and do everything you possibly can to mitigate your mistake:
a) become actively involved in ridding the country of such a grossly misguided government immediately and before term
b) make sure that you and your fellow comrades are not hoodwinked again
c) all of the above.
Time to get busy and actually "do something" Jonny - and everyone else for that matter.
Personally I voted with my feet, and have withdrawn my tax obligations to Mr Brown. Maybe insignifcant as an individual act, but enacted nevertheless.
The power is with you, the people.
"Do or do not, there is no try."
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Yes they will, my new house mate is a BA steward, awesome story, they are getting Butt Feckecked.
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Jonny Jones,
Bringing this back to your original question - and having two holidays this season booked, both using BA flights one at Xmas and one at half term - yes am in the same boat - and now in more of a quandry having received my free airmiles for the disruption that will 'pay' for a weekend away in March - should I save them for next year, or run the risk - (I know I will cave into the BA marketing ploy and use them rather than putting my hand in my pocket and paying Swiss!!).
Decisions..... 
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You know it makes sense.
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| SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote: |
| Yes they will, my new house mate is a BA steward, awesome story, they are getting Butt Feckecked. |
Out of interest why does your BA steward mate think that? I've also got some mates who are stewards & stewardesses, and the ones who feel badly done by are the ones that just listen to BASSA/Unite. If your mate examines what's on the table, what does he object to?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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He objects to the employing of new personel for a reduced service airline on bad contracts eventually to replace him.
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Poster: A snowHead
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SMALLZOOKEEPER,
That is presumably a 'bad contract' v the current BA contract rather than whats on offer from other airlines? Or are the new contract worse than those on offer in the market generally? Listening to the 'management' they say they are still paying over market rate - or is that not right?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| nixmap wrote: |
Doesnt change the facts, and with respect for your points perhaps I could alter the options above
As I see it you now have 4 choices:
1) Leave the country.
2) Get involved in politics, (grassroots or otherwise) and put a stop to it.
3) Get over it and stop bleating about it.
4) Aplogise for your gross voting error in the last election and do everything you possibly can to mitigate your mistake:
a) become actively involved in ridding the country of such a grossly misguided government immediately and before term
b) make sure that you and your fellow comrades are not hoodwinked again
c) all of the above.
Time to get busy and actually "do something" Jonny - and everyone else for that matter.
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Most of us didn't make that "gross voting error" 
It took less than 33% of votes cast to give Labour an overwhelming majority in the House of Commons. And less than 25% of the electorate, although I think those who can't even be bothered voting lose any right to complain.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| alex_heney wrote: |
| although I think those who can't even be bothered voting lose any right to complain. |
Quite right, I even managed to sneak into a polling station and vote before I was legally entitled. I thought that my one vote might have made the difference, and breaking a law by a matter of weeks was a small price to pay (afterall, they let me vote)...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote: |
| He objects to the employing of new personel for a reduced service airline on bad contracts eventually to replace him. |
"reduced service airline" BA have removed one person from the 747's taking the crew complement from 15 to 14, the CSD (head steward) has had their role changed from sitting in their office, doing walk arounds and handing out landing cards to being involved with the service and all the stuff they did before. The good CSDs were always involved in the service anyway, it's the lazier CSDs who spent their flights watching videos in their office who now have to do some work which are complaining.
Plus, even if BA were reducing the service on board (which they're not), surely that is a decision that the board/senior managers should be making - it's not up to anyone else, certainly not the Union who decides the level of service on board.
"new personnel...on bad contracts" as has been highlighted, BA junior Cabin Crew are paid on average at least 65% (in some cases 200%) more than their counterparts in other UK airlines. Fact - the new CC contract that has been proposed is still significantly better than any other UK airline and if it's so bad then you wouldn't have people accepting it.
The contract that is so bad, and the crewing levels that have reduced service are the same as those that are in effect at London Gatwick - yet the union was happy for that to be implemented years ago.
"eventually to replace him" yes they will. Just as those that are on the current "new contract" which was implemented in 1998 are steadily replacing those on the "old contract". To mitigate against any loss in variable pay BA has offered a fixed sum in leiu of variable pay which protects the current crew against any loss in earnings - this they can swap into and out of if they disagree. CC friends of mine who have done the sums, examined their old payslips and compared it with what's on offer have found no difference in annual pay but just a smoothing out of salary from one month to the next.
The fact remains that we live in a different world to the one which spawned BASSA and many of the older cabin crew, 25 years ago BA was nationalised and had an effective monopoly. There wasn't the choice there is today. Back then people used to book through travel agents that were paid good commission by BA. Nowadays, people look on the web and go with the cheapest fare, to compete in that world BA has to reduce costs and it simply cannot maintain a Cabin crew population of 14000 on wages that are so far out of kilter compared to market rate.
Cheers
BB
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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If I had booked flights and was able to cancel them (even with a small hit) Id do it immediately. If the ballot is declared and a strike called you will be left up the creek at the mercy of your insurance/card-co/BA/inflated prices from compettitors.
I'd be cancelling now and booking someone else before the rush starts.
Cheers
Bob
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FAQ
