 Poster: A snowHead
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I've been looking for some new skis with the Salomon X-Wing series as a starting point
I may get a chance to test some at the Chill Factore next week and have looked at the following in their demo fleet:
Salomon XW Tornado
Fischer Watea 78
Fischer Watea 84
Rossignol Bandit 80
K2 Apache Crossbow
K2 Apache Explorer
Salomon Lord
Atomic Snoop
Realistically I can only really test 3 or 4. I've included the Lord and the Snoop because I'd like to get a feel for just how much the extra width affects their piste performance but I can't see me ended up with either of them unless the blow me away.
So maybe I'm looking at the Tornado, either the Lord or the Snoop, one of the Wateas and one other?
Any views?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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A few runs in a fridge tells you very little I am afraid. To test out the Lord or the Snoop you need some Soft stuff. 150m on a groomed green run won't tell you anything unless you are a real expert at assessing skis.
Personal view - but I still think that for most of us - the first 30mins on a different pair of skis is about how our learnt bad habits interact with them, and you need longer - on proper snow - to really demo anything other than intermediate piste skis
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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+1 but skiing on crappy snow in a crowded fridge can help you understand how livable an outdoor ski might be in sub optimal conditions. If you're purely looking at which ski performs best indoors than everyone would end up on very short skinny piste skis.
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| stoatsbrother wrote: |
| A few runs in a fridge tells you very little I am afraid.... |
Point taken but.... is it better than nothing?
Next ski will be a family holiday in a smallish resort (Le Grand Bornand) and I just won't be able to spend the week testing a range of skis.
I'm hoping that when it comes to making a decision the fridge testing will help, along with the views of people on here, mag/website reviews and whether they've got a nice picture on them.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Fridge testing really opened my eyes. Admittedly I'm strictly a piste bimbler only, but I did discover that I do not like super-long, super-fat skis. They don't do anything I want them to!
I did find quite a difference between the various skis I tested in terms of ease to turn, ability to cope with icy/sludgey patches and stability at speed. All of this can be done with ease in a fridge, but other than the horrid massive off-piste skis I stuck to the piste-orientated offerings.
My favourites were: Fischer Koa 78, Scott Rosa, Rossignol Attraxion VI, Storm Inferno.
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| Higs wrote: |
| stoatsbrother wrote: |
| A few runs in a fridge tells you very little I am afraid.... |
Point taken but.... is it better than nothing? |
Not if you use the test to completely eliminate candidate skis.
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Tell us how you ski. Better yet, put up a video or pictures.
This is a good start:
| Higs wrote: |
I'm thinking of buying my own skis again this year. I had Axendo 9s in the time before children but have been renting for the last few years. I'm going for three weeks skiing this winter so reckon it's worth having my own again.
I'm a big, fit bloke (runner and mountain biker) who skis with more enthusiasm than technique. I ski mostly on the piste but enjoy venturing off into the powder when I get the chance. So I've come to the conclusion that I need an AllMountain ski.
Sadly I don't live in the Alps so I don't have the luxury of spending time testing skis. If I tried that I'd just about come to a conclusion by the end of the season just in time for a whole new set of skis to come out and confuse me. I've basically got to plump for a pair and enjoy them. Based on the fact that my local shop is a Salomon dealer that points me towards the X-wing 8 or the Storm.
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But more detail would be useful. Size?
Based purely on the above, I'd _test_
Tornado
Watea 84
Snoop
Lord
(in completely different sizes)
and keep the Recon on the possibilities list (I very much doubt it will show well in a snowdome, except in lengths way, way too short for your size).
If you plan on having lessons to upgrade your skills, the list reduces to
Tornado
Watea 84
Recon
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| comprex wrote: |
Tell us how you ski.
....more detail would be useful. Size?
Based purely on the above, I'd pick
Tornado
Watea 84
Snoop
Lord
(in completely different sizes)
and keep the Recon on the possibilities list. |
Size? I'm about 6'1" and weigh about 93kg
How do I ski?
Always a difficult one - I enjoy skiing almost all pistes and am happiest when going fast. I avoid moguls - just don't enjoy them, probably because I don't ski them well. I enjoy some off-piste but again it's enthusiasm and leg-strength that sees me through, not technique. To be honest, I'm in desperate need of lessons in that I learnt years ago (having lessons all week for the first few years) but that was on the old skis. I've had some tuition in carving about 5 years ago but, since kids came along, ski time has beed such a rare treat that I've skied rather than have lessons. I suspect I'm a bag of bad habits now. Does that help?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Higs wrote: |
| Does that help? |
It doesn't change my picks.
The Snoop and Lord are _not_ going to be well suited for skills development in lessons. You will want them significantly longer (from 8 to 12cm longer) than the others, so that you don't totally kill what is -best- about the Snoop and Lord for a slight gain in what they're -worst- at.
Oh and I assume that's a K2 Crossfire, not a BD Crossbow?
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| comprex wrote: |
Oh and I assume that's a K2 Crossfire, not a BD Crossbow? |
Yep.
That's the one the man in the shop seemed most keen to get me to try.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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The ski is good value; although it isn't at all to my taste.
One game plan I might suggest is to drop the Snoop and Lord testing until after Le Grand Bornand, and focus on something you are far more likely to buy.
Tornado
Watea 84
Recon
Crossfire
is a workable list.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Hmmm.....
Think I'll go with:
Tornado
Watea 84
Bandit 80
Apache Explorer (or Crossfire maybe)
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Is the K2 Extreme on the list?
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You know it makes sense.
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| comprex wrote: |
| Is the K2 Extreme on the list? |
It's on the S&R website. I don't know if it's one of their demo skis. If it is, is it a contender? And which would you knock off my test list to make room for it?
It's not one I've come across so far but, if nothing else, I like the looks of it.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Higs wrote: |
It's on the S&R website. I don't know if it's one of their demo skis. If it is, is it a contender?
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I'd make it one.
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And which would you knock off my test list to make room for it?
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Crossfire, probably.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Comprex said
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keep the Recon on the possibilities list (I very much doubt it will show well in a snowdome
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I did try these v Tornado, Crossfire and Storm at the Ellis-Brigham test in Milton Keynes recently. The Recon blew em all out for me! On a Saturday it gets pretty churned up and the Recon were so reassuring through everything and almost as lively as the Tornado they got my vote.
FWIW, I thought the Crossfire and Tornado very similar, with the Tornado getting the edge. Would have liked to try out the Crossfire on piste where it is meant to shine, but come the afternoon on most of the slopes I have been to in France, lots of runs end up churned and slushy so figured I couldn't go too far wrong with the Recons.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| forwood wrote: |
Comprex said
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keep the Recon on the possibilities list (I very much doubt it will show well in a snowdome
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I did try these v Tornado, Crossfire and Storm at the Ellis-Brigham test in Milton Keynes recently. The Recon blew em all out for me! On a Saturday it gets pretty churned up and the Recon were so reassuring through everything and almost as lively as the Tornado they got my vote.
FWIW, I thought the Crossfire and Tornado very similar, with the Tornado getting the edge. Would have liked to try out the Crossfire on piste where it is meant to shine, but come the afternoon on most of the slopes I have been to in France, lots of runs end up churned and slushy so figured I couldn't go too far wrong with the Recons. |
I do keep hearing good things about the Recon but I don't think S&R sell it so it won't be in the demo pool.
I don't know if I'll get chance to ski both the Crossfire and Xplorer but if I do and like them both but fancy something 'in-between' the Recon will be the one obviously.
Out of interest, how did the Storm and Tornado compare?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Higs, oh man you just gotta try the d-star legend pro XXL 194....those things just luuuurve tight spots...you'll have a ball with them in the fridge...let me know how you get on.........
okbye
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I really like the Lords, I was amazed how well they performed on piste not much different to my admittedly mid range 5 year old 100% pisters - if anything better. Plus giving more confidence in the soft stuff. I think a crudded up indoor slope does give you some good pointers about what you like and don't like - the Lords just plough right through crud. They wont have them but I tried the movement jams recently and I was very impressed with them. There was a pair on ebay last week and instead of grabbing them half price I decided to hang on and try to get them for a hundred spots. Sadly someone took the half price buy it now offer - was it any of you?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Also Scott Missions - worth a look IMO.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| snowpatrol wrote: |
Higs, oh man you just gotta try the d-star legend pro XXL 194....
okbye |
Maybe.
For a laugh.
One day.
okbye.
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OK, I went to the Chill Factore and tested the following (in order)
Rossignol Bandit 80: very neutral - I've rented the Bandit in various guises quite a bit over the last few years so no surprises. First time on skis in 9months so I did quite a few runs on it.
Salomon Tornado Ti: more zip and snap than the Bandit. It was like a precision instrument.
Fischer Watea 84: not the ski for me. It felt dull and vague and needed advanced warning to roll edge to edge. Took it back after two runs so I'd have time to test both Apaches.
K2 Apache Xplorer: same width as the Watea (and longer) but very different. It's natural instinct seemed to be to tear it up but when pushed into quicker, shorter turns it responded really well
K2 Apache Crossfire: ran out of time on this one. First impressions were (not surprisingly) that it skied just like I would expect the little brother of the Xplorer. It was quite like the Tornado with the the Salomon being slightly more 'precise' and the K2 slightly more forgiving.
So where does that leave me?
I've tested 5 skis and (I think) narrowed it down to 3 (2 of which I've not actually skied):
~ Salomon Tornado (but not the Ti one - £50 cheaper and may just take the edge off it)
~ K2 Apache Xplorer (may well be more ski than I'll need most of the time but a lot of fun when it lets fly)
~ K2 Apache Recon (the sensible option?)
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The Explorers will last you longer than the other 2
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Interesting you found the fischer like that, I know the watea series are not going to be a favourite for GS turns on ice but I would have expected them to still perform well on the hard chillfactore snow. Demoing skis is so hard since the tune has such an effect, I'd be interested to know what angles it has set.
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Choice of ski is so subjective as I'm finding out myself at the moment. Been for 2 demos at MK in the last couple of months, similar size/experience, but found myself loving the Watea 84 and not enjoying the Recon very much at all (as our American cousins say: "go figure")! I've given up on reviews now, gonna test a bit more (give the skis with a bit more width a longer go), and then buy something that combines a) an enjoyable ride and b) will allow me to develop my skiing over the next couple of years.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I wanted to like the Watea. If nothing else, it was the best looking one I tested by far.
Maybe it was the tune, maybe it was this or that, but it just wasn't right for me. If I'd rented it, I'd have taken it back and asked what else they had.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| comprex wrote: |
| The Explorers will last you longer than the other 2 |
Do you mean they're more durable or that they'll better suit the type of skiing I'll be doing in a few years? If it's the latter, I like your confidence in me but I don't think I've progressed much in the last five years.
More thinking aloud but I wonder if the Xplorer is perhaps too much ski for me. But then I think about how I like my mountain bikes - my favourite one is quite probably too much bike for me. It's just about OK doing the stuff that doesn't suit it (riding uphill) but excels at what it does best which is basically blatting downhill on the ragged edge of control. It has something of the hooligan about it. And so does the K2 Xplorer. More so than any of the other skis it was talking to me, rather than me telling it what to do. And what it was saying to me (within the bounds of the Chill Factore) was "let's just rip it up a bit and see what happens". I could reign it in and make it do nice things but really it just wanted to rip an back bottom out of the piste.
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I skied Scott Crusades in Tignes last week. I thought they were very nice to ski. Worth a try.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Higs wrote: |
t they'll better suit the type of skiing I'll be doing in a few years?
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^this.
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If it's the latter, I like your confidence in me but I don't think I've progressed much in the last five years.
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Take a lesson. Get lotsa snowtime in.
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More thinking aloud but I wonder if the Xplorer is perhaps too much ski for me.
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Don't overthink. You know what you want.
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FAQ
