 Poster: A snowHead
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having read the article about the woman who got caught using her boyfriend's lift pass, it has got me concerned about my upcoming trip to the 3V.
My wife and I are taking our 11 month old baby and were planning to get one lift pass between us and one uses it whilst the other babysits. We are going with another couple with a toddler who were planning the same thing, so 2 passes between the 4 of us and obviously only 2 people can use the passes at any one time.
Is this:
A) perfectly acceptable
B) allowed but frowned upon
C) not allowed but noone will know
D) completely illegal and likely to land me in a damp French cell and a hefty fine?
I'm reluctant to fork out for 2 passes and can't find out what info is needed when buying them or shown on the actual pass. Do 3V passes (6 days) have names on or anything which will show it's mine rather than my wife's, meaning she might get "nicked" whilst using it?
I hadn't even thought about it until reading the news article and maybe I'm just getting overly worried for no reason.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Ans is D (but I doubt the french cell)
Why dont you buy day passes of half day ?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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stanton - might have to if that's the case. more expensive but don't fancy a fine. BTW do you know how they could tell - they don't have photos as far as I know so don't show up on a screen like season passes do? I've never been asked to show my pass in 6 years.
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I'd say screw it, I find it ridiculous, why wouldn't you be allowed to do it, you buy a ticket for 1 adult, and only 1 adult uses it at a time. If I were in your situation I'd do the same thing. I was in L2A in feb with 9 guys from frathouse of which 2 were learning to board and stuck on the free lifts for most of the time but by the end of the week used passes of the other guys who took an afternoon off.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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C, surely, unless it's an old-fashioned style pass with a passport photo on it.
I'm thinking about doing this in the coming season as well, so would be interested to hear actual anecdotes.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Pass for a week is an electric one anyway, so no photos and as far as I know there is no distinction in passes between men and women, only adults or children.
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Dont they put photos on the electric passes though? They do in Austria. I imagine if you get the two women to share a pass, and the two men, no-one will notice...
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Wear a hat and googles,who will know the diff
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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A.
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clarky999, they didn't in Sölden, nor did they in Zell am Ziller last time I was there.
Sella Ronda pass was a paper one but still with the RFID hands free bit inside, and you're supposed to write your name on it iirc. Presumably this is a really basic way to make it slightly more "not transferable", but I just "forgot" to write name on it.
My vote would most likely be C but it depends on the resort, and what system they have in place.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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It's not allowed, but there's no way they will know. Even in Austria, they don't put photos to daily/weekly passes. To be honest, I don't think they put photos on daily/weekly passes anywhere (I'm sure they don't in Austria, Slovenia, Italy and Finland at least). It's different with season passes, but I don't think OP is talking about season pass.
Officially all passes, daily, weekly, or season pass, are not transferable, so you are not allowed to do this what you are planning. But they really have no way to check this. And you won't be first one, who will be doing this.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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2 or 3 years ago in Alpe d'Huez I was surprised to find that the lift pass was a scrap of paper, on a string around my neck, with a passport photo glued to it.
There must still be resorts that do this?
3Vs doesn't seem to be one of them though.
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When we were in verbier we had to leave passports overnight to get passes We never thought why untill later in the week when in a que for gondola the guy in the control room was watching a large plasma screen we caught a glance on the passing and it was mine and my father in laws photos one each side of the screen as we passed his position to get the lift. Glad we werent cheating. MSL
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You know it makes sense.
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| primoz wrote: |
It's not allowed, but there's no way they will know. Even in Austria, they don't put photos to daily/weekly passes. To be honest, I don't think they put photos on daily/weekly passes anywhere (I'm sure they don't in Austria, Slovenia, Italy and Finland at least). It's different with season passes, but I don't think OP is talking about season pass.
Officially all passes, daily, weekly, or season pass, are not transferable, so you are not allowed to do this what you are planning. But they really have no way to check this. And you won't be first one, who will be doing this. |
Never seen it in Norway either. As you say, Primoz, they only register photos for season passes.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Just pick a unisex Christian name for the pass - e.g. Vivian, Sam, Lesley etc.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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at the end of the day your not really cheating as only 1 of you will be skiing at 1 time, but it will be illegal, but i would take the risk if i were in your shoes.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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standyc, it's not allowed, and if you were caught you would be fined.
However ..... if the 3V system is the same as here (which I think it is) the passes will carry the name of the purchaser but not a photograph. So if you use the other bloke's pass rather than that of your wife, you have virtually no chance of being caught out. Technically the terms of sale require you to carry ID while skiing, but I've never heard of anyone asking for it.
From what I hear, resorts are seeing more and more fraud and it wouldn't surprise me if they go back to requiring photographs for passes of two days or more.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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watch the insurance implications... say the 'wrong' person had an accident - that might go very badly and expensively wrong
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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red 27, that should only matter if the person in question was using the resort insurance which goes with the pass. In which case it would indeed matter a great deal.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| clarky999 wrote: |
| Dont they put photos on the electric passes though? They do in Austria. |
Not on one-week passes they don't.
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Lizzard unfortunately it'll be the boys going out together and then swapping babysitting duties with the girls. We're not out to defaud or steal in any sense - I just hadn't really considered it would be an issue until reading the other article. Looks like we do days on the slopes each rather than mornings/afternoons and buy daily passes rather than sharing a weekly. 
red_27 hadn't thought about the insurance side of it and having seen in the news recently, insurance companies use any excuse to not pay out.
Cheers for the info.
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| standyc wrote: |
red_27 hadn't thought about the insurance side of it and having seen in the news recently, insurance companies use any excuse to not pay out.
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Assuming you are buying "proper" insurance, I have never seen a policy which makes any stipulation whatsoever about the lift pass, apart from the clauses which pay out for unused portions of one.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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andy, primoz, I had an 8 day pass in Sölden and had my photo on it. Most resorts still require photos for 8 days or higher. Season tickets have a digitised one which flashes up when you pass through the system - seen it done in several places. We were surprised that we had to provide photos ourselves - the last time I needed they shot the picture through the cash desk and digitised straight on to the pass - saw it several times when passing through the main uplift from the valley.
standyc, I'd go for C - it is illegal but the chances of you getting caught are slim, especially if you are there in a high season period. As the UK has no official ID card system, you are not obliged to carry any. Use Lizzard's idea of swapping with the other guy and you'll reduce the risks even more
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standyc, yeah - get those dailies, only 20€ more and no worries 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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You don't put any name on the weekly passes in the 3v unless you get the insurance so there's not a problem.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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There is nothing on a 3V pass to identify you so while it is probably technically illegal the chances of getting caught are 0 unless you tell a lifty in good french what you are doing. I would have no qualms or worries about doing it. Theres no photo, no name, no gender, nothing on a 3v pass that could give you away. The only data it stores is whetrher you are a child or an adult, the dates and which lifts you have access to. I think I've made my opinion clear now.
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standyc we have done this in the 3Vs and Paradiski many times and will do so again
As jimmjimm and rambotion say there is nothing to worry about!
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You know it makes sense.
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I figured that the case you mention was for a season pass where they have all your details on record. If you buy 6 days they don't ask for anything other than the cash.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I think this is ethically a different matter from the season pass issue which was discussed here recently - where the season pass is priced on the basis that most passholders will not be skiing every hour every day all season. The 6 day passes they'd expect to be used continuously for all the hours the lifts are open. I don't think you are screwing anyone with this.
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Poster: A snowHead
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stoatsbrother, I completely agree
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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If they don't put photos / names on the passes then go for it. It may be against the rules, but I don't think it's morally wrong as only one of you will be skiing at a time.
In Verbier they put your photo even on the week passes, and every time you go through the electonic gates it flashes up on the liftie's screen. When you go back to the resort a few years later your pic will still be on their system!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I've had to send off photos to go on our lift passes for our week in Folgarida, apparently they won't issue the passes without a photo.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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beanie1, I was in Verbier last Easter and didnt have a photo taken.... Just gave my money to the Tour Rep who returned a few hours later with our passes 'sans photo'. Maybe they just decided that having a picture of a look-a-like of Pug from the 'Bash Street Kids' on the system wasnt a good idea?!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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2 years ago in the Espace Killy I ordered passes in advance for a group of about 15. Had to supply photos. When we picked them up on arrival there was no way of telling one pass from the other (not even adult from child) so I just handed them out randomly. As we went through the first gate we were stopped because the photo was embedded in the card and appeared on the screen in the lifties' hut. We had to regroup and look at the screen to identify who's card was whose. I would be surprised if the 3V does not have a similar system.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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standyc,
Give the tourist office or lift company a ring and find out...
http://www.les3vallees.com/en/contacts.75/ I always find that actual fact as opposed to speculation is the way forward when real cash is concerned!!
Having said that... here's my speculative effort...
If the pass has no photo and no named holder then it can be used by anyone...
In my areas all passes under 8 days have no photo and no named holders so they can be shared...
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Well, for the last few years, we seem to have been with Crystal who as you probably know try very hard to sell lift passes on the transfer bus.
As the price always seems to be the same and after asking their exchange rate I usually buy one and most times it is available for collection in the bar or at the reception.
In Sauze, we picked it up at the welcolme meeting in the bar and it was like a scrum with tickets being handed out from a pile after showing your invoice.
No way were individual tickets assigned. All the tickets were the same wireless jobbies and they could not possibly know at the lifts who had bought it.
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I'd wait and see what system is in place when you get there, and if no photo required then I'd say share.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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My weekly PdS pass last year had no photo neither did my 5 day pass for Expace Killy just the valid dates and identifier as Adult. One pass was ordered in advance from the chalet company and the other was bought direct at the Caisse. Can't see you having any problem
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There is another recent thread on this somewhere. I think the upshot was that some resorts (eg Chamonix) have some passes that are meant to be sharable (eg sub 5 day non consec) other than that all passes (eg 6 day consec) are technically meant to be for the use of one individual but as there was no identification at time of purchase, no link to photo, indeed no asking of even a name for a holder (below a given validity length) then it was in practice unenforcable.
Morally sharing a pass therefore is a personal call. Personally I can't see a problem with sharing any pass where the issuer doesn't even ask the name of the intended user, whereas I view it as wrong to try and share any longer duration pass linked to an individual (eg a season pass, or a 15 day non consec).
For what it's worth.
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