 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I had some footbeds (because I'd bought the wrong boots) and they melted oozing gunge into my boots. They were conformable.
Never felt much need since but if I had feet problems I might go to a podorist and have some done.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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They do actually make your boots fit better ergo ski better.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Buy your own and mould em. Sole foot beds. £40
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Great if you're a bit wonky and/or out of shape. When I was younger/fitter/thinner/poorer/better looking any old stock rubbish would do, now though my vast bulk requires some form of armature.
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Are they the 'extended warranty' of ski boot sales?
I have some, they're in their third set of boots now. I guess they've held their original shape but any cushioning on top of the shape must be shafted by now.
I don't need orthotics in my running or bike (road &mtb) shoes. I don't actually remember why I was recommended footbeds in the first place.
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| Higs wrote: |
I don't need orthotics in my running or bike (road &mtb) shoes. |
Neither of which sports require the foot to spend much time with both the heel and forefoot fully weighted.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Significant improvement for me and partner. I refused them on the basis I wanted to try them without. I went back a week later and got them fitted, wouldn't dream of going back now - it was a world of difference.
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| comprex wrote: |
| ...with both the heel and forefoot fully weighted. |
Is that a bit like standing up?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
Is that a bit like standing up?
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Only for some! 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Higs wrote: |
| comprex wrote: |
| ...with both the heel and forefoot fully weighted. |
Is that a bit like standing up? |
It's a bit like standing up on one foot on a balance board, yes.
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bargainbill, where you overheard that discussion was like the shoe salesman selling the polish
if the reasoning behind them is explained soundly then for most people there is a benefit, some people only need a basic off the shelf one, for others then a custom made product will do a better job or may be REQUIRED
BTW £50 for a custom footbed must be a fairly low level product or not a complete one often times shops sell a pair of footbeds without a posting block of some description on the bottom of them.... this is the backing material which makes the product stable in the boot, different people require different amounts, densities etc, some of the newer models form conformable have structural materials built in so require less or no posting (personally i like to be in control of what i add to a product to geve the best result for the individual
a few reasons for footbeds
reduce fatique
increase properoceptive feedback
spread load over the whole foot
allow redistrubiton of weight away frmm pressure points
faster edging response
holds the foot stable to reduces any movement
increase leverage
increase comfort
increase performance
all of the above dependant on the product being well made for the individual.... if i was unsure of the skills of someoen who was offering a custom device then i would opt for an off the peg one which will do a reasonable job rather than a poorly made custom one which could cause pain
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You know it makes sense.
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| comprex wrote: |
| Higs wrote: |
| comprex wrote: |
| ...with both the heel and forefoot fully weighted. |
Is that a bit like standing up? |
It's a bit like standing up on one foot on a balance board, yes. |
Perhaps with a sword balanced on the tip of my nose?
Don't get me wrong - I use footbeds but I use them blindly in that (i) I've not skiied without then for years and (ii) I can't remember why I got them in the first place. I wonder if I do actually need them. I wonder how many other people are using them without actually needing them.
I'm no expert (you can probably tell) but I would have thought that demands placed on my feet were: running>skiing>cycling while understanding that the nature of the demand is different.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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If you have freaky feet like mine then a well set-up footbed makes all the difference - I have a very high arch / instep and all the pressure was pushing through two points on the sole of my foot and the plantar fascia was being stretched as the pressure built. Since I had the footbeds made (and the incredibly obliging salesman at Blues spent 2 hours setting up my second-hand boots for no money instead of trying to flog me new boots!) I can put pressure down over the whole of my foot. No more cramping when I build pressure and I can ski all day in comfort. For anyone with unusually-shaped feet I reckon a footbed can go a long way towards helping to achieve a neutral stance.
I guess the answer to the original question IMO is that for some people the orthotics are essential but they need to be set up by someone who knows what they are doing and with the time to take a holistic approach to the whole foot/boot fit. Punting footbeds as a matter of course with every new boot purchase suggests that it is profit-led and I would question the skill and experience of the sales staff concerned...
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
I guess the answer to the original question IMO is that for some people the orthotics are essential but they need to be set up by someone who knows what they are doing and with the time to take a holistic approach to the whole foot/boot fit. Punting footbeds as a matter of course with every new boot purchase suggests that it is profit-led and I would question the skill and experience of the sales staff concerned...
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personally i beleive that something to replace the piece of carpet tile that the manufacturers supply is a good thing, but as i said it is a case of the right thing for the right person... skiing (due to the nature of the sport) is one sport where the vast majority 90%+ will benefit in some way from a good insert
my biggest issue with some places is the way they are introduced, they are an integral part of the fitting process and to just add them in at the end of the sale is
1 bad practise
2 profiteering
3 not doing the best thing for the customer
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Not specifically trying to pimp CEM but if you've ever looked at many footbeds supplied in a ski boot they have all the support of a wet piece of cardboard. Now there's a Chicken & Egg situation here - do manufacturers supply them like that because they know customers will prefer separate footbeds or did the footbed market develop becaus ethe basic product was so crap. I've seen some high end snowboard boots that seem to come with copy superfeet OTS type footbeds - maybe there's a recognition that snowboarders are less likely to pay for additional bootfit so they might as well put as many features as possible in to justify high end prices.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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CEM, Totally agree - it would have to be an industry wide move to put in better stock footbeds and that ain't going to happen & I'm sure you know I'm happy about spending on a custom footbed. I guess an analogy is buying a new kitchen - B&Q might put together a standard pack of cupbaords etc for £600 but you just know it isn't going to fit or be all you need in your own space.
Man on the Clapham omnibus though is geared up to spending £200 on ski boots, suddenly finds its an extra 20% on top for some off the shelf footbeds because the included product is not fit for purpose. As you say probably poor sales/fitting advice if this is a surprise but its got the potential to leave a sour taste in the mouth. I've run stock superfeets for years (pre custom) and very happy with the quality so I know that 20% is worth it but does every customer? Probably this isn't an issue for you because most people who seek you out will know what you offer but the guy who walks into S+R?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
included product is not fit for purpose
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It's more a case of feet not fit for purpose 
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Since visiting CEM for my ski boots, and also buying some standard green superfeet insoles, I not done any sport without the green superfeet, including riding. I couldn't use my ski boot ones for general sport as non-bendy ankles mean that I've got heel lifts on them, but the superfeet have meant I can actually run without sore knees, and I am not spending money on new sorbathane insoles in my fencing shoes every six months or so! I also wear them in my hiking boots which are a lot more comfortable. Riding admittedly was more fluke after some boots I bought on the internet turned out to be a fraction too long and I had the brainwave of putting some insoles in them so that they wouldn't cut into to back of my knee. My lower leg position miraculously improved as a result!
I'm coming to the conclusion that a decent pair of insoles are more important than the latest, highest-tech pair of shoes for most sports which, coming from a sport where you think nothing of buying a pair of £120 shoes that last about 6 months with the help of gaffer tape, is a bit of a shock. Now I can buy the marginally less high tech, but much more durable shoes and have them last at least 4 times as long...
Makes ski boots seem cheap put that way!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Higs wrote: |
Perhaps with a sword balanced on the tip of my nose? |
Go ahead and larf; the fact is that balancing on a ski edge while flat-footed is that unusual a thing for most feet to do.
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| I'm no expert (you can probably tell) but I would have thought that demands placed on my feet were: running>skiing>cycling while understanding that |
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| the nature of the demand is different. |
trumps any sort of ranking simply because your feet are not used to it. If you had spent the entire summer inline skating and riding MTB so that you had ~2000 miles of each in the legs right now, then ranking might come into it.
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On the same subject... what is the preferred footbed on here? personally only get on with conformarble footbeds but I prefer the idea to how superfeet work! just interested to know peoples thoughts...pretty sure I know CEM's but then he could be seen as a little biased lol
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I had a pair put into my Salomon boots last week and they were fantastic. They used some kind heatable foam footbed and I had to stand in my boots after the beds had been inserted and heated for several minutes. Then the fitter got me to walk around while they formed into the shape of my soles.
I was using the original felt and plastic ones before and had suffered a lot of tiredness, especially in the calf muscles as well as cramps in the arch of the foot. I've been using orthopaedic made to measure footbeds in my shoes and trainers for the past 3 years while recovering from injury and this was the first sustained period of skiing since being prescribed the ortho ones. This was probably why I was more aware of the lack of support.
very happy skier as a result!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Bargainbill's scenario is all too prevalant these days.
There's quite a diference between an experienced bootfitter assessing a client's stance and making or recommending a footbed to correct an acutal problem and a salesman getting every customer to stnad on the unpleasantly squidgy grey pads and making a load of fifty quid a time insoles regardless of the need.
If you've just bought a pir of ski boots and the salesman persuades you to buy footbeds, be wary if you hear him shout "Kerching!".
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dansmith, have you tried a superfeet custom bed? or put another way what have you tried other than the conformable
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You know it makes sense.
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So when do you get footbeds fitted?
I ask having bought new boots a few weeks ago from my local ski shop with the help of their experienced boot fitters. I did not get any sell on footbeds in fact they were not mentioned at all. I have now used my boots on several sessions at tamworth. While testing out some of the skis at EBs demo session last week, I was asked by one of the staff how I was finding my boots. I was asked if I had footbeds. When I replied no - the reaction was one of surprise. Now I dont think the member of staff was doing the sell. I think he was just expressing his opinion that I should have had footbeds from the start. However by coincidence I had noticed movement that my right heel was starting to lift. Anyway my wife was after new boots for Xmas, so yesterday we went back to our local shop for her fitting and I took my boots in too for advice. Again no suggestion of footbeds for during my wifes fitting but you can guess the answer for me. I now have a pair of superfeet footbeds fitted and the problem with movement solved. So the question is if footbeds had been fitted from the start would it have prevented the problem and does it demonstrate the quality of the footbed supplied by the manufacturer, which is CEMs point. Or is this an example of good fitting and good advice and no hard sell or maybe both?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Spyderman, I agree, I'm still running on a bone fide bit of carpet tile in mine 
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Poster: A snowHead
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CEM, yep I have had a full cork and never been in so much pain skiing...think it didn't help that it took too much volume out of my ski boot, also tried greens, blues, orange, blacks, red hots. (James was trying very hard to find ones that worked for me) but each one has the same effect on me, almost feels like it is bruising my heal, so much so that i can't even walk properly for a few hours after skiing with them. However I love the superfeet greens in my trainers!
On that course at your place last year (or so) the guy said it was my unflexable calfs that give me the problems, I do agree my flexability is rubbish!! but surely this wouldn't give me the feeling i get in my heals!
The sidas has always worked for me...pain free skiing! As much as I prefer the idea on how the superfeet work it just has never worked for me!
Maybe my foot needs to pronate slightly? god knows I gave up with playing and stuck to what works for me!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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dansmith, ah that dan, how are you bro.... prehaps short lad just wasn't building then right for you
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| dansmith wrote: |
| On that course at your place last year (or so) the guy said it was my unflexable calfs that give me the problems, I do agree my flexability is rubbish!! but surely this wouldn't give me the feeling i get in my heals! |
Could well be if it's your achilles, why not try some calf stretching when your brushing your teeth morning and night? Cannot make things worse, and if it does make it better it's not cost you anything!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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FAQ
I do strectch lots and seen a phsyio about it many a time! I'm just a lone sidas fan then? :-S