Poster: A snowHead
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Hi
How advisable (safe?) is it to use the AT Vibram sole that comes with Garmont Endorphins in a Marker Baron?
I have just had the Barons fitted and set up using the Endorphin's alpine sole by the ski tech as per binding instructions...
However, I would really like to use the AT sole that comes with the boots as it is so much better for climbing/scrambling, which was one of the things that attracted me to the boots. So I fitted that and the boot will just go into the binding but is REALLY stiff and the rear of the binding doesn't appear to close entirely because of the thickness of the heel.
Would it be wise to try and lengthen the track slightly to try and get the binding to close fully? Will the bindings release ok with the AT sole?
Any feedback from anyone with experience of any of this would be most welcome as the official line is only to use alpine soles in the Marker Barons.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The Baron is certified for use with AT Boots but you will have to adjust the binding when switching soles. The first thing to do is to adjust the toe height for the thicker sole. The AFD moves on a diagonal track. If you know what you are doing then adjust it otherwise go to someone who does.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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inspark, welcome to snowheads.
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.....as the official line is only to use alpine soles in the Marker Barons........ |
That's incorrect as the Duke/Baron's are designed to be used with either an alpine sole or a vibram, hence the adjustable toe height facility.
You must however re-adjust the toe height (ie lower the AFD to allow for the thicker sole) & then re-adjust the forward pressure screw in the rear otherwise you'll get the problems you've already encountered.
Duke/Baron's are very sensitive to set-up, especially with vibram soles, so I'd recommend so I'd recommend taking them to a tech who has experience with this & get him to do it & show you how at the same time.
If you're anywhere near Nottingham I'd be pleased to show you.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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You must however re-adjust the toe height (ie lower the AFD to allow for the thicker sole) & then re-adjust the forward pressure screw in the rear otherwise you'll get the problems you've already encountered.
Duke/Baron's are very sensitive to set-up, especially with vibram soles, so I'd recommend so I'd recommend taking them to a tech who has experience with this & get him to do it & show you how at the same time.
If you're anywhere near Nottingham I'd be pleased to show you.
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Thanks for your assistance, the AFD plate is covered in the "manual" and I noticed as I lowered it that it had marks for "alpine" and "touring" so I have adjusted that! It was the rear of the binding that concerned me: I have adjusted the screw so that the boot will engage fully, but at no point is the binding arm as vertical as with the alpine soles although it seems secure. How much difference to the release properties will the AT sole make? BTW I am in Dorset so cannot take up your kind offer!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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If you don't know what you're doing (and without being harsh it doesn't sound like you do!) get someone qualified to do it - unless you like senseless risk to your knees?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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inspark, The alpine & touring marks on the AFD are guide marks only & the correct adjustment (ie, 0.5mm clearance between the AFD & the boot as determined by a feeler gauge) will depend upon the individual boot used.
The rear length adjustment is the forward pressure adjustment & the end of the screw should be flush with the outer housing when the boot is installed. Note that the toe height needs to be correctly adjusted first before the forward pressure is adjusted.
Both of the above adjustments are standard adjustments on many alpine bindings but the soft vibram soles on touring boots are easily compressed so it's very easy to get the toe height incorrect. For this reason I also check measure the toe height clearance off the top of the toe lug as well as the underneath. The Duke/Baron's also have a very snug forward pressure adjustment & it's common to see it set too low as users don't believe how hard it is to insert the boot when it's correctly set. Both of these conditions will lead to pre-releases.
Also prepare yourself for the heelpiece to put indents either side o the top of your boot's heel lug which will raise concern but once they been made they don;t get any worse, just make sure you remove any raised burrs etc.
Go see a tech who's experienced with installing touring boots & this binding.
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Go see a tech who's experienced with installing touring boots & this binding.
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I assumed I had at the establishment where I bought and had the bindings fitted.....hence the query
Thanks for your clear and instructive reply. The AFD clearance setting is straightforward and covered in the literature, although an exact 0.5mm clearance is quite ambitious allowing for the vagaries of the sole moulding and uneven wear. Even with the new boots, which have only been used for walking the dog, there is a difference in clearance from one side of the sole to the other so I guess a compromise is in order and measure from the middle.
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I use Barons with a pair of Scarpa Typhoons with their climbing sole unit on. Not as good a fit as with the ski soles but for a week of powder in La Plagne last year they were brilliant. Fitting was done by the techs at Slush and Rubble in London (Cov Garden) who I highly recommend.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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inspark wrote: |
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Go see a tech who's experienced with installing touring boots & this binding.
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I assumed I had at the establishment where I bought and had the bindings fitted.....hence the query...... |
Yes, but you said you'd had them set with the alpine soles attached. The vibram soles change the dimensions of the boot so the bindings then need re-adjusting
I'm all for people understanding/fettling their own gear (for example when I mount bindings I take the owner through all the hows'n'why's of all the adjustments etc) & this is not rocket science but there are, especially with this binding, subtle nuances (like how much 'grab' there should be on the toe height gauge) that are best seen/shown/felt that can't easily be put into words.
Just seems strange to me that you're asking for advice but then not taking it.
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Just seems strange to me that you're asking for advice but then not taking it.
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Sorry, I think I may not have made myself clear: the shop where I bought the bindings would not set them up with the AT soles on the boots as he said the bindings should ONLY be used with the alpine soles - this was what concerned me. I have taken on board all the information you have sent and will try to locate a tech who can check/correct my settings when I go to France, which is tomorrow. Thanks again for all your help
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