 Poster: A snowHead
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Whats the most challenging / difficult resort you've been to
ie Red Runs / Black runs and Off Piste
more related to large of number of slopes rather than just ONE challenging run
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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You might need to refine the question to get sensible answers. e.g. some people may not consider pistes of any grade to be "difficult" though for example there are many single black marked runs in N America that simply couldn't be directly compared to European black pistes as they are physically ungroomable.
Also somewhere that has rocky terrain, low snowfall, icy conditions, no fall zones is for example likely to more challenging than the opposite but not necessarily be somewhere that anyone will seek out.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I'm not sure I'm advanced and I'm definatley not expert but I am qualified as a BASI leve l 1 instructor therefore qualified to answer your question. Out of the immense number of resorts I have visited, all of which have been either in the espace killy or the three valleys, I reckon the most challenging resort I've been to was meribel which seemed to have a very high number of black mogul runs on the west side of the valley. This is of course entirely circumstantial as had the runs been nicely groomed they eould have pretty easy.
It is far too open a question though as if you're looking for the most difficult terrain availible you wouldn't be looking for red runs and something that an expert actually finds challenging will be entireyl off piste. Therefore you are just going to get chamonix and la grave as recurring european answers.
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| Quote: |
Also somewhere that has rocky terrain, low snowfall, icy conditions, no fall zones is for example likely to more challenging than the opposite but not necessarily be somewhere that anyone will seek out.
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Are you describing scotland?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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The obvious answer is la Grave (I went for the first time last year). But this is not a resort in the, nominally, conventional sense as it has no groomed runs. It is all unmarked, unpisted and not patrolled. I was in a group, with a guide, on an off piste course and wouldn't recommend it without a guide unless you have good knowledge of the area.
The most difficult resort I have skied is St Anton as a 2nd year beginner in mid Feb. All of my friends were at the same level, we had no real experience of choosing resorts or dates so we picked St Anton and ended up on mogul-ridden reds with half of Austria, Fulham and seriously depleted confidence. I know now that it's a great resort for good/advanced skiers but it's no place for me, my wussy mates and a snow-ploughing girlfriend - at half term.
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My favourites for challenging terrain are Chamonix in Europe and Fernie in BC Canada. I haven't been to la Grave yet.
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La Grave has 100% blue pistes; it's an intermediates playground.
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| rambotion wrote: |
| Out of the immense number of resorts I have visited, all of which have been either in the espace killy or the three valleys, . |
Curious usage of "immense number".  Or am I missing an underlying irony?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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1969jma, in order to give a good answer to this question - we need to know a bit more of what you are after.
And are we talking number of black runs, total distance of black runs, proportion of black runs, % of terrain which is steep, ease of inbound off-piste accessibility, ease of out-of-ski-area off piste... ? etc etc
Swirly, oh poo... better cancel my holiday there this year... 
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Daft question... but nonetheless: Kicking Horse.
Btw... imo, a decent skiier will always find something challenging - you sound like someone prepared to go somewhere out of your league for "boast bonus points" and be a danger on the piste! 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Alexandra, CPR ridge etc . Nice! There are some nice bits like that - with more vertical - at Fernie.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Alexandra, Having skied Kicking Horse, Banff & Lake Louise i can say without a moments hesitation they don't hold a candle to any of the major French resorts. CPR ridge is a 30 second hit it's no comparison to the lines off of La grave, the Aiguille du Midi, the aiguille rouge, Bellecote, the grande motte. But the great lines off of these peaks require either a guide or a lot of experience so people prefer the north american alternative as it's easier.
As to the OP's question i'd say for lift accessed terrain available it's got to be Chamonix. From a purely subjective point of view i'd say the black pistes there are harder than most other places.
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| Swirly wrote: |
| La Grave has 100% blue pistes; it's an intermediates playground. |
LOL
Yes, the one piste is blue 
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You know it makes sense.
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frank4short, certainly as regards what is available at LL and KH that is a very valid criticism - and highlights the problem with the question. There are other NA resorts with much longer sustained difficult runs. But we cannot all ski with a guide everyday can we? So does the questioner mean to include terrain where you need a guide?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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sorry
some resorts have more blacks than others, some also have excellent off piste
looking at the big picture - most challenging resort
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Poster: A snowHead
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frank4short, perhaps I misunderstood OP's question. I took it to mean "what percentage is considered challenging" - in that respect, I think KH is high!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Got to be Argentiere/Grands Montets. Not only are most of the runs entertaining in their own right, you also have a skier population that is considerably more talented than average.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Alexandra, well the bottom half of KH is almost flat.
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Well I have yet to find a 'marked run' that is as steep at the flypaper at Glencoe.
A little tricky when its boiler plate.
However most people probably havent heard of Champex-Lac
Its only small - but a very steep average gradient.
Real hidden gem for those who like steep trees. Pack a machete!
http://www.haggistrap.co.uk/verbier/VerbierRoadTripChampex.shtml
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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under a new name, the problem with the Grands Montets is there are too many good skiers. I reckon it's the fastest tracked mountain in the world. There are lines there that are tracked out same day after a snowfall that would probably only get a couple descents a year elsewhere.
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For the people that mentioned Fernie - which runs do you consider the most challenging/favourite challenge? Genuinely wondering for taking high end clients out, since I have my personal favourites but living here without really skiing any of Europe in the last 3 years I have no base of comparison.
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Why does the question make me feal really uneasy?
Why do you want to know 1969jma?
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Out of the resorts of skied at, St Anton is probably harder overall - there is very little beginner terrain or anything like that, and most runs become mogulled pretty quickly. Saying that, I don't think there is one truely difficult piste - even counting the black runs, there is nothing to make a decent skier think twice. Lots of offpiste options for most levels, easy stuff of the back of the Galzig, or gnarl off the back of the Valluga.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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valdise alaska 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| DaveC wrote: |
| For the people that mentioned Fernie - which runs do you consider the most challenging/favourite challenge? Genuinely wondering for taking high end clients out, since I have my personal favourites but living here without really skiing any of Europe in the last 3 years I have no base of comparison. |
Knot chutes and Anaconda glades are a far challenge for most Euro skiers - probably more than fair given tight trees. Loads of lines off Sib & Snake ridge are nice but not too burly. Then there's the Saddle & Corner Pocket - I'd consider those more Euro like because they get scraped up quickly. One of my faves used to be lapping under Boom chair, again not too tough as the trees are widely spaced but you certainly wouldn't want to lose control.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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1969jma, hello!
I am guessing that your question is based on an average UK skier- a "once a year" man who rarely if ever ventures off piste and who does really notice the difference between an easy and a hard red run - and who is looking for a harder resort amongst the resorts he has heard of rather than someone who dreams skiing, spends far too much time on snowheads, has at least 3 trips a year and too many skis to carry all at once.
If my guess is correct then I'd suggest Val D'Isere; quite a few runs to the resort undergraded (although the most memorable is now a black), lots of terrain, lots of easily accessible off piste, lots of black runs, no undergraded reds- in contrast for example wit the very 'easy' red runs in Peisey - Vallandry. I haven't yet skied in St Anton but from reading / speaking to others this would also be a contender as would Verbier. All these resorts would I think give a normal UK skier a great holiday with quite a few challenges. I haven't skied much at all in North America on grounds of cost- but I'd guess that the average UK skier doesn't either and would be a bit freaked by the ungroomed bowls in Whistler, Vail and others.
If my guess is not correct then as others have already posted; la Grave and Chamonix (Grands Montets). La Grave has been by far the most difficult resort I have been to - I found everything difficult- just leaving the hotel for the first mornings skiing was  hard.
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You know it makes sense.
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^ 'Apparently' Verbier has the steepest average piste gradient in Europe. </skigeek>
I dont actually think Verbier gets tracked that fast (compared to Chamonix).
You just need to be prepared to put in the effort and hike or skin a little.
Lots of stashes 15 minutes hike from the lift that will still be fresh 4 or 5 days after a dump.
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Sun 6-12-09 22:45; edited 2 times in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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fatbob, found a nice line (accidentally) to the skiers right of Anaconda Glades - trees got tighter and tighter - till no room to turn/sideslip and just had to go for it and see what happened at the bottom... shouting for the others to hold up on the proper line as I was an unguided missile. Nice pitch
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| ccl wrote: |
| rambotion wrote: |
| Out of the immense number of resorts I have visited, all of which have been either in the espace killy or the three valleys, . |
Curious usage of "immense number". Or am I missing an underlying irony? |
I also wondered about this.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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ccl and Fergus, Yes you are, it was a joke, obviously.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| stoatsbrother wrote: |
| fatbob, found a nice line (accidentally) to the skiers right of Anaconda Glades - trees got tighter and tighter - till no room to turn/sideslip and just had to go for it and see what happened at the bottom... shouting for the others to hold up on the proper line as I was an unguided missile. Nice pitch |
I'd probably go with Anaconda, far skiers right is Anaconda 4 (chinese symbols at the top of each "chute" in the zone, the rumour/folklore I've heard is it has the symbol for death!). Still haven't, and won't ski Corner Pocket since I just don't see the point.
I think Fernie does have a lot of challenging stuff, but I don't think there's much on the ubergnar scale of Corbett's Colouir, etc? Just wondering if I want to scale up terrain from here for a season, where'd be good to look at. There're unmarked chutes to straightline if that's your thing, but no real headline runs like I imagine would be found in Cham, La Grave, etc?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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DaveC, Haven't done Corbetts - but I probably will one day. Watched at the bottom and the top. It is a jump in and a must-turn turn but after that a quite short pitch into tensleep bowl. Alta 1 & 0 are probably more technically challenging (only done Alta 2 myself - in a ski lesson a few years back...). I suspect that the key difference here is between short gnarly bits inbounds in N America - compared to longer sustained lines in Europe.
Guess I'll find out about La Grave in February...
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I haven't been there but Krippenstein must make the list, the whole place is mad.
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I think the Fernie question draws out a good point - lots of resorts (not backcountry) in US & Canada have some pretty hairball lines marked on the trail map but they tend to be short and/or, in Fernie's case especially, spectacularly difficult to precisely locate. So lots of minigolf but nothing of the scale of say La Grave/Aiguille de Midi/Gemstock/Pic Blanc etc, with possible exception of Whistler. I don't think I'd ever ski Corbetts except in the finest conditions, consequences of f***ing up too high for some minor bragging points so mentally doubt I'd be in the right place to approach it.
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My 2 cents worth from 'resorts' I've skied:
Argentina - Las Lenas
Austria - St Anton
Canada - Kicking Horse
Chile - Termas de Chillan
France - La Grave
Italy - Alagna
Japan - Kurodake
New Zealand - Craigieburn
Norway - Stranda
Switzerland - Engelberg
USA - Crested Butte
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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In terms of what's on the map it's Whistler for me, closely followed by Arapahoe Basin. Whistler is the only place I've got to the top of something and turned back. And A Basin has the most moguls I've ever seen.
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i'd hang my hat on kicking horse in canada, a couple of hours from banff everytime 
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