 Poster: A snowHead
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Anyone done it?
I'm driving solo to the SFaB & eosb in my Ducato van, I can get 40mpg , but this is nearer 25 at 130kmh on the autoroutes and the tolls for my van are 2x that for a car.
If I drive at an economical speed on the autoroute, it only saves about 1.5 hrs over the non toll route
The non toll route seems about £500 cheaper in no tolls, less distance and a more economical speed
Both directions
Tolls £400 
Fuel100
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I’d never drive long distance without using the toll motorways. We did a tour around France some years ago, a while more scenic and enjoyable for short sections, long distance is a nightmare. Lots of roads cut through towns which get congested, if the road isnt dual carriage over taking is much harder as you get stuck behind lorries, it’s hard to find loos, when you do you’ll need your own loo roll as they rarely get cleaned and stocked. Sometimes finding fuel and food without detouring off route to the commercial estate can sometimes be a challenge.
This is just my experience, and i’m sure someone will be along to say they had a different experience, to say i’m wrong or way off the mark - in typical snowhead fashion.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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It's easy to pick up a speeding fine in the back roads in France. The limits change all the time and it can be hard to know what they are.
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I tried it once and ended back on the autoroute as the other roads were 'tortuous' (for a long journey..)
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I did it some years ago, on a journey home in the summer. It cost me a 90 euro fine for "speeding" through some deserted dorp in the middle of the country where a policeman happened to be sitting eating his lunch. There had been no speed restriction signs, but if any three cowsheds and barn with no roof have a name, the limit is automatically 30 mph. I know that now.......
A lot of the French N roads are actually extremely good. But almost all towns and many sizeable villages are by-passed, with a series of roundabouts, so you don't necessarily see the most interesting sights if you don't detour into them.
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In the mid 90s I drove back from, I think, Val D'Isère via Mulhouse to Calais. A lot of the driving was on Routes Nationale. Except when I got lost in Mulhouse (I was driving solo and there was no satnav) I thoroughly enjoyed it. Mind you I had budgeted the time, and I am sure the roads were less congested then.
I stayed overnight at one auberge where I was joined at dinner by a charcuterie salesman who discussed his work and told me that he preferred the routes nationale because they were better than the autoroutes for gastronomy.
An evening I would not have experienced on an autoroute.
We had a delightful meal. Later we were joined in the bar by the chef, who took pride in what he did, but was ranting about new rules applicable to, IIRC, non pasteurised products which would affect adversely his preparation of his sauces anciennes.
On my trip it definitely paid off to speak some French. I enjoyed the trip.
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I'd be surprised if it was less than 4hrs extra
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The lack of traffic driving through France (compared to the UK) is very pleasant. But you do need to budget for an overnight, somewhere nice. There are some terrific "Tables d'hote".
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Origen wrote: |
I did it some years ago, on a journey home in the summer. It cost me a 90 euro fine for "speeding" through some deserted dorp in the middle of the country where a policeman happened to be sitting eating his lunch. There had been no speed restriction signs, but if any three cowsheds and barn with no roof have a name, the limit is automatically 30 mph. I know that now.......
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TBF the rules, across most of Europe, are quite clear - a 50kph limit is automatically in place in any town or village where there is a sign. Not a speed limit sign, but the name of the village you're entering. All villages will be signed on entry and exit. If there is not village/town sign, then there is no automatic 50 limit.
Worth remembering also that the default national speed limit reduced from 90 to 80kph a couple of years ago. Many rural roads are still 90kph but only if explicitly signed - lack of any signage, or the and-of-limit sign, https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/~UwAAOSw9G1dlN5M/s-l640.jpg means 80.
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@Origen, And some nice chambre d'hote too 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| tangowaggon wrote: |
| adithorp wrote: |
| I'd be surprised if it was less than 4hrs extra |
Google maps puts it at 3:40 longer than auto route...
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Only one way to find out; try it. I'll put a tenner on Google time being wrong 
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But google maps doesn't provide for any stops. And the longer the journey, the more difference that makes. And if you have no time to just sit in a quiet square with a cup of coffee, what's the point?
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You know it makes sense.
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I tend to use a hybrid approach - use toll roads where there is no reasonably efficient alternative. In other places, there are free routes which save money without greatly adding to the journey time, such as the D1504 between Amberieu-en-Bugey and Chambery if driving towards the Tarentaise. I also try to be on the free sections when I want to stop for food or petrol, since the autoroute options are more expensive and less pleasant.
Often the "N-roads" carry more traffic (especially lorry traffic) than the "D-roads" so I wouldn't discount the latter even if they tend to be a bit narrower.
The time of day you're travelling through each area will also make a big difference. Unless you set a future arrival / departure time, Google's journey times will reflect current traffic conditions, which will be an underestimate of your real journey time if you're searching at midnight, and an overestimate if you're looking at 5pm.
@Chaletbeauroc, in France the "town" sign needs to be a white one with black text and a red box around it for 50kph to apply. The reduced speed limit does not come into force for hamlets where the sign is in black with white text.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@denfinella, there speaks the person who loves a plan and has a wondrous eye for detail.
As for this, gosh,
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in France the "town" sign needs to be a white one with black text and a red box around it for 50kph to apply. The reduced speed limit does not come into force for hamlets where the sign is in black with white text.
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Every day's a school day on snowHeads!
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
Every day's a school day on snowHeads!
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+1 My policeman didn't explain this to me. Perhaps he felt (rightly) that my French wasn't up to it....
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I think that was correct re. the 50kph limits only starting at white signs rather than black, but I'm now having doubts - hopefully someone else can confirm that it's correct?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Having done every variation 3-4 times a year over the last 20 years. 4 hours extra compared to doing say 90kph on the autoroute is about fair. But that's an extra day over doing 130kph down the autoroute. Can be fun can also be frustraiting.
I you are ever going to Chamonix or anywhere east of there. There is a route through Belgium, Luxembourg, Germany and Switzerland that is only 2 hours slower than the normal French autoroute. Sorry dosen't realy work out when going to the 3vs
Unless you are really needing the van, sleeping in it or transporting something large, I suggest a different vehicle if just using as transport to the 3vs
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
| TBF the rules, across most of Europe, are quite clear - a 50kph limit is automatically in place in any town or village where there is a sign. Not a speed limit sign, but the name of the village you're entering. |
It's the alternatives when you're out of (or between) numerous 50kph bits in France that I sometimes find hard to follow - eg driving via Annecy to Albertville. Sometimes it's 70kph, sometimes it's 90kph and (IMO) it's not always clearly signposted.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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How about going via Namur to Luxemburg and then South through the Vosges and Jura towards Geneva. No tolls, cheap fuel in Luxemburg. More scenic as well.
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Last March, we drove to the Alps mostly on N and D roads. But it was more of a sightseeing holiday with a bit of skiing to visit places we'd previously bypassed on the Autoroutes. We stayed in Reims and Macon on the way down and Beaune and Arras on the way back. It saved tolls but we weren't in a hurry. And you have to watch for village signs indicating 50kph as said, sometimes one village follows another. And if you're staying in hotels then that obviously adds to your costs which could go towards tolls instead. But it was nice having a picnic on a D road lay-by viewpoint looking up at one of the high A40 viaducts we'd driven on loads of times (including this year) and getting a different perspective.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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On our recent drive back a lot of the village name signs are upside down. A quick Google revealed its a protest by the farmers against EU treatment. More civilised but probably less effective than blocking the roads with tractors.
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Never mind what the speed limit is..it's the priority to the right rule that will get you if you travel off the main routes in France!
If you use the ViaMichelin route planner you can add your vehicle , fuel type and cost per litre, the planner will then give you full journey costs so you can compare the shorter tolled route costs against the extra fuel costs of the longer alternatives.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
the extra fuel costs of the longer alternatives.
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Some aren't longer. for example driving from south of Dijon south east across the Jura to Geneva is shorter than the autoroute. And if you are a smooth and light-footed driver you can drive a lot of extra miles with the fuel saved by not blasting along at 80 mph.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Those rolls really do add up when in a motorhome/campervan in France. What you need to work out is which bits are just as fast non tolls and which are alot faster on the tolls. You can do this on Via Michelin but you have to split the routes into tiny sections. Maybe ask on a motorhome forum?
20mph in Wales now, alright in the city where it's obvious, but try in rural Wales where it's almost impossible to determine the speed limit and tractors start overtaking you.
Takes me 4 days to earn £500!!
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| tangowaggon wrote: |
.......
Both directions
Tolls £400
Fuel100 |
I think your fuel sums are off. Dunno where you're travelling from but London to VT return is 1400 miles @ 40mpg is 35 gallons/156litres @ £1.50/litre = £234. At 25mpg it'll cost £380.
Going to last years EoSB my car with laden with gear, two fat lads and a large roof box got 23/24mpg and cost just over £400 in fuel for the round trip from Reigate.
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You know it makes sense.
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@Origen, I meant longer in time not distance...we live in the Jura and the route up over to Oyonnax followed by a swift descent down the toll free road to the motorway is our route of choice rather than pounding the long way round on the motorway. Not this time though as the start of the EoSB coincides with the Tour du Jura cycle race which is passing right by our front door and making journey planning for Mr HH to drop me off ay GVA for the lardybus somewhat challenging!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@tangowaggon, just wondered - have you thought of flying? A quick check gave me an Easyjet return out from Gatwick to GVA on Mon 8th April and return late Sat 20th April (yes, you miss two days at the beginning and need a transfer) for £131. Sure, you've got to get to Gatwick and maybe hire skis to save carriage. Just a thought.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| homphomp wrote: |
Never mind what the speed limit is..it's the priority to the right rule that will get you if you travel off the main routes in France!
If you use the ViaMichelin route planner you can add your vehicle , fuel type and cost per litre, the planner will then give you full journey costs so you can compare the shorter tolled route costs against the extra fuel costs of the longer alternatives. |
The shortest non toll route is actually 38km shorter than the toll route.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@homphomp,
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it's the priority to the right rule that will get you if you travel off the main routes in France
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It never ceases to amaze me, and frighten me to death, that people still apply this, considering it's many decades since the rule was abolished!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Of course, nobody who is very cost-conscious would ever do 130 kph + down an autoroute anyway. It's funny when people who clearly blast down at top speed will nevertheless spend a while faffing around - even going right off the toll road - to save a few cents off a litre of fuel.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@homphomp,
Yay, you're coming!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Hurtle wrote: |
@homphomp,
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it's the priority to the right rule that will get you if you travel off the main routes in France
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It never ceases to amaze me, and frighten me to death, that people still apply this, considering it's many decades since the rule was abolished! |
It hasn't been abolished! Still applies in many urban areas, quiet rural lanes, at things that look like roundabouts but aren't and in the heads of a bunch of older drivers who simply don't care if you're heading down the main road in front of them!!!!
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I did calais to mottaret last week and it took me 14 hrs on the autoroute driving at the speed limit...had a blow out and didn't bother with the spare I said I should probably take in the other thread, doh, i have 4 summer wheels in shed aswell. Cost me 500 euros and 4-5 hours to get it sorted as it happened at 4:30 am. Glad it happened on the autoroute because all i did was limp to one of those emergency phones and the rest was done for me.
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@tangowaggon, as others have said ViaMichelin is your friend. Back in the day before the motorway was continuous there were lengthy delays getting through some towns St Dizier is etched into my memory on a Saturday we had made good time got to St Dizier and it was some local festival - took us 2 hours one side of town to the other
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| homphomp wrote: |
| Hurtle wrote: |
@homphomp,
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it's the priority to the right rule that will get you if you travel off the main routes in France
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It never ceases to amaze me, and frighten me to death, that people still apply this, considering it's many decades since the rule was abolished! |
It hasn't been abolished! Still applies in many urban areas, quiet rural lanes, at things that look like roundabouts but aren't and in the heads of a bunch of older drivers who simply don't care if you're heading down the main road in front of them!!!! |
Certainly hasn't - there is one on the main road through Aime, although most of the locals proceed with caution particularly if there are foreign registered cars coming, I've seen several near misses over the years.
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For the rules, what you need to look out for are those "square diamond" signs along the side of the road which indicate you have priority. But yes, look out for old Gaston who's been driving out of that side street since 1926.
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didn't bother with the spare I said I should probably take in the other thread, doh
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@Glosterwolf,  Bad luck.
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FAQ
