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Ski/binding ajustments

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Read up on what to do, let a specialist do the setup, because you know what needs to happen you will be in a better position to judge if it is being undertaken properly. I let a UK ski shop adjust my own skis to fit new boots with a different sole size. They failed to make the appropriate adjustment for the new sole length and as a result I received an injury in a slow release fall. My ski/binding/boot relationship was studied straight after the accident and the shortfall in the gap between front/rear peices corresonded directly to the change in the boot size. This was equivalent to raising the DIN setting to "racer" levels. As a skier (not a technician) I put boot into binding, it went click, I went skiing. The retailer was most abusive when their work was challenged, threatening legal(libel) action. If you want to know who, PM me. So I watched ski techs at work and read up where I could-and now watch and make sure things are done to my satisfaction.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Wear The Fox Hat wrote:
jtr, yes, that's correct.


But then again, do you think that a rental boot is as good a fit as a purchased one?


Nope I pass on the first point - don't know what you are saying - "yes" you are happy for renters to be injured but not purchasers? As I said, each to his own.

.... and a rental boot might be as good a fit as a purchased one (small but finite probability) and the newsgroups are full of people with ill-fitting purchased boots.

Back to somewhere close to where this started. I am happy to set my own DINs, you seek to deny me access to DIN charts to allow me to do this. You are seeking to restrict my choice. Don't.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I'm with jtr on this one.

Rental shops are a nightmare, they either ask or guess your weight and then plug an imaginary number into the bindings and hand you the skis, no testing, no checking, no discussion.

I was in Serre Che earlier this year with a mixed ability group, one of whom is female, about 5'6", 9 stone, and just starting to move away from snowplough turns and they set her bindings to 6!
It wasn't until after the first days skiing and after her tales of painful twists caused by her bindings not releasing on falling that I thought to check and was astonished when I did.

I like to have my bindings set to 6 as I have had problems with my knees in the past. When hiring skis this year (due to the lack of snow cover) I was asked for my weight, and replied that I'd like my bindings set to 6, to which he replied "6 stone" ???(try doubling that)

These guys just seem to pluck a number from thin air, set your bindings to it and get you out of their shop as quickly as possible (even if it's not busy, as it wasn't in the above examples). They rarely ask for your ability level or preferences, and they always seem to set on the high side (maybe their scared of losing skis)
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jtr, And distance between heel/toe peices, wing height and wing angle.......? Why stop with DIN Very Happy
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
jtr, what I am saying yes to is that I believe the level of safety in a rental binding is lower than that in a fixed binding.
You are welcome to adjust your own bindings. I just consider it an unwise move for people to do so without being aware of the importance of setting them up correctly. (also for warranty and insurance reasons, I consider it a bad idea)
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snowbunny, part of the problem is, many people who adjust their own bindings DO just stop at the "DIN"
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
snowbunny, Thankfully most of the bindings we have came with comprehensive instructions (Atomics, in particular) although, curiously no DIN charts. When I bought new skis for my son in Courchevel a couple of years ago, I explained to the ski technician, that my son would likely be in boots with a longer sole length (278 to 285, I think) the following year. He was very helpful in explaining how to reset the binding and recheck the forward pressure. He was happy to do this and seemed pleased that someone was taking an interest in what he was doing. I bought from them again.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
mwareing wrote:
I'm with jtr on this one.

I was in Serre Che earlier this year with a mixed ability group, one of whom is female, about 5'6", 9 stone, and just starting to move away from snowplough turns and they set her bindings to 6!


Well, here's the thing, if you're with jtr, and you use the chart which Terry Morse published, then you would probably set her skis to 6. That's what the chart says for someone with a 251-270mm sole boot, weighing 67-78kg, and 167-178cm tall, who would class themselves as a type 1 skier.
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Probably a daft question - I don't know - but do binding settings "go off"? What I mean is, when I used to get my skis serviced, I used to ask them to check the bindings. That was because someone once told me to! Now, what they did, if anything, I don't know. But since rock skiing in both Tignes and Serre Che this season, and spending a fortune on servicing, husband has now gone native, bought the stuff, read snowHeads advice and has done the deed. So do I still need to get the bindings checked, although I've got the same boots and skis? And what are they actually checking them for Puzzled
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Wear The Fox Hat, 9 stones is roughly 57 Kg. A more likely sole length would be 285 to 295. That would give a DIN setting of around 3 for a type 1 skier. I see your problem with using DIN charts. If I were you, I would let someone else set your bindings as well.
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jtr,
Quote:

A more likely sole length would be 285 to 295

I don't think so. I'm a 5' 6" woman and my sole length is 250 (English size 6).
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
jtr, apologies, I'm a bit young to convert from stone to kgs, and I wasn't aware of her boot size, but I was able to see that a DIN of 6 IS a valid possibility for someone of her height. Although, I don't see how you get a 3 from Terry's chart, the lowest it says for a 57kg person is 3.25, if they have a 311mm sole or above!
Based on your 285-295mm sole, the chart says 3.5-4 for 57kg, but for 58kg it's 4.5-4.75, or am I reading it wrong?
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
maggi wrote:
jtr,
Quote:

A more likely sole length would be 285 to 295

I don't think so. I'm a 5' 6" woman and my sole length is 250 (English size 6).


Boot sole length not foot length. A 5' 6" woman typically has a foot length of 25.0 cm which sits in a boot that has a sole length of 295 mm.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Wear The Fox Hat, yes 6 would have been right for the height, but the Din chart says to take whichever gives the lower release code, weight or height.
The major concern for me with this chart is the disparity between height and weight in each band, how may people who are 5'6 weigh 12.5 stone (and ski) !!!

So assuming she's 251-270mm, which sounds about right, then the binding should have been set somewhere between 4.25 - 5.00 (allowing for the addition of a few excess pounds). This is a big difference from a setting of 6 for someone of her ability who is more likely to be involved in slow speed falls.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
jtr, Well, that probably shows how ignorant I am then Blush I assumed, as you would, that if the boot said 250mm on it, that's how big it was! It's a good job I'm not thinking of setting my bindings from a chart. And as you're so knowledgable, can you answer my previous question, please? (I don't think Fox is talking to me as I called him a MCP in another thread wink )
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
maggi, if the boot says 250mm, then it is 250mm sole length.

mwareing, as I explained to jtr, I wasn't certain of the conversion from stone to kg, so I worked with what I did know!
So, if she weighed 9st 1lb instead of 9st, she would definitely fall into the 5 setting for weight. If the rental guy asked her about her skiing, and she didn't say she was a beginner, he may well have put her to a level II, which would then point to a DIN of 6. What I'm saying is, the shop, if just using the chart, may have used the information she gave and seen that 6 IS an appropriate value.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Just checked... 9st = 126lb = J on the chart.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Wear The Fox Hat, Nope you are not reading it wrong. I was using my "Over 50" version and if this does not apply to the person in question (it does to me), I duly apologise, and the setting should be 3.5 rather than 3.0 (but certainly not 6.0) for a 295mm sole length. Your "J" versus "I" is a boundary condition. The chart also says that "J" applies from 58 Kg and given that 9 st is less than 58 Kg, then "I" would apply.

But…… (and prepare yourself for a shock) I do completely agree with your "I just consider it an unwise move for people to do so without being aware of the importance of setting them up correctly." statement. I believe that the people look after their own DIN settings do so because they realise how important it is.

Would I ever attach bindings on my skis? No, because (as I described earlier) I have no confidence in my ability to do it properly.. but I do check what the shop has done afterwards.
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The fact is that they didn't ask her ability.

They may well have set the binding to 6 correctly if they had assumed that she was a type II skier. but without asking her, how would they know? They only way that they could have made that assessment was by the fact that she was with a couple of us who obviously knew what we were doing. This is a very dangerous assumption to make, for all they knew she could have been an absolute beginner.
What assumptions would they have made if she was the sort of person who must have the best of everything and had hired their prestige boots/skis? would they have then set her bindings to 7??

I am in full agreement that binding setting is not something that should be treated lightly, by skiers or by the rental shops. But, surely forewarned is forearmed, if you know roughly what your / your friends dins should be then you are in a poistion to ensure that they are set correctly and if not that you have the confidence to query it, rather than trusting blindly in a shop assistant who couldn't give a toss.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
jtr, if you look on the chart, it gives both lbs and kgs. It says 126lb is J. So, I guess the conversion must be 57.xxx kg, but in pounds, 126lb is definitely J.
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mwareing, it is good to know what your DIN settings should be, so that you can tell the shop what you want it set to.
If you have your own skis, the shop should have given you paperwork with them telling you what DIN settings they had used for you.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
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maggi, Watch the "if the boot says 250mm, then it is 250mm sole length." as it applies to you. That would suggest that the boot is exactly the same length as your English size 6 foot (which is approximaltely 25 cm). The numbers on the stickers, usually on the front of the toe and the rear of the boot, refer to your foot length. Normally, there is another number embosed on the side of the heel piece of the boot and that is the boot sole length. In my wife's case these numbers are 25.0 and 295 respectively.

If your question was about your husband "going native" then I would let him to the testing first, see how he gets on and then decide. Personally, I wax my own skis but get them serviced professionally as well. When they are serviced, I ask them to look at the bindings (I don't know what they do) because I am happy to have a cross check on anything I have missed.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
maggi wrote:
Probably a daft question - I don't know - but do binding settings "go off"? What I mean is, when I used to get my skis serviced, I used to ask them to check the bindings. That was because someone once told me to! Now, what they did, if anything, I don't know. But since rock skiing in both Tignes and Serre Che this season, and spending a fortune on servicing, husband has now gone native, bought the stuff, read snowHeads advice and has done the deed. So do I still need to get the bindings checked, although I've got the same boots and skis? And what are they actually checking them for Puzzled
Yes, they can. The screws can actually move over time (especially in transit), parts can be damaged, and the springs fatigue over time (especially if you don't loosen them all the way for the summer break). It's always wise to have them tested before skiing for the first time in a season.
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maggi, Yeah but I saw it before you deleted it. As to "why we pay this but don't know what they do", I pay it as an insurance. Rightly or wrongly, I welcome second opinions.

Checked your boots yet?
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jtr, No, they're at home in the loft. I'll do it tomorrow, OK?
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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jtr, rental shops test bindings at the beginning of the season. As long as they are in tolerance then, the binding manufacturer considers them good for the season. They don't test them each time.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
ssh,The real issue is how they treat the individual customer from a safety point of view (see others' experiences) and the right of the customer to have access to data that allows them to perfom an independent cross check. Defining standards is all well and good but what counts is the implementation and in many cases eg transfer days, that leaves a lot to be desired.

PS Can we move on to something less controversial such as, say, global warming. Joking. Honest
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
jtr, I guess I'm glad that I don't rent skis in Europe! In the US, the DIN charts are laminated on the benches where the techs adjust the bindings, so you can certainly look at the charts if you want to do. The techs are universally diligent in checking the settings at every shop I have visited (quite a number over the past few years).
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
ssh, not all European are so lax, my favorite Swiss shop always checks every setup, they actually check all settings and record them in the hire info on their computer, if there are any problems then it will instantly show up
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
D G Orf, I'm sure that's the case. This is the way most of the higher-end shops do it in the US, too. jtr, has certainly made it seem that many are lax, though, unfortunately.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Just two questions, then. My markers are set up for me. There is an adjuster in the middle that makes the bindings get longer or shorter. For a friend of same DIN and shorter feet, is it not safe to just adjust them to the right length? Do I need to got to a shop?

Second, sometimes I feel the DIN is a bit to high for me. Is it not safe to screw it down a grade on each end of the binding?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Nogs, if you're not skiing at very high speeds, you can drop it back a bit. I usually ski below my "real" DIN, since I prefer release over retension so ski a "Type II" setting instead of a "Type III" setting.

Adjusting the middle adjuster is ok, as long as you know how to make sure that the forward pressure is correct. Do you?
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
No, I am afraid I don't. Glad you mentioned that. Is it hard?
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ssh, well, I think I've figured it out now, but of course it would be more sensible if such information were freely available.

Cheers
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
jtr, I have now checked my boots (had to get them out anyway as I am going to Flaine on Saturday Cool ) and you're right! Sole marked 294! Now I always thought that the mondo size was invented so that ski boots were all the same size, whatever country you got them in, so that you could put any boot of the same size into your binding. So if that's not true, and it obviously isn't, why did they bother?
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maggi, mondo size is for the inside of boots not the outside, half sizes are from memory wider but no longer than their full size e.g 28 and 28.5 have the same length but 28.5 is for wider feet, however the volume or internal shape differs which is why one brand of boots in 28.5 may be much to tight whilst another fits perfectly, what was agreed on was to make the toe and heel sizes identical so that they will fit any binding
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