 Poster: A snowHead
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Been thinking about posting this since my return from Tignes last week but have been worrying about getting flamed. But it's Friday evening, I've a glass of wine in my hand and it's raining outside, so what else to do.
What's the collective wisdom on skiing a closed piste? In Tignes a couple of weekends ago there were many closed pistes and there were quite a few people ducking under the wire to ski them.
My chum and I dutifully stuck to the open pistes - little girly swots that we are - but it did get us thinking/chatting about the possible consequences of skiing on a closed off run. What of insurance should an accident happen? Would they pay up? Would there be any other consequences?
what say the panel?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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What wine is it?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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1) You will not be insured
2) If you have an accident you will be charged off piste rescue charges.
3) Pistes are always closed for a good reason. Quite often because the snow has gone so you will wreck your ski's.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Had one of the best days of last season doing laps on a closed piste. But make sure you know why it's closed - in our case the lift at the bottom was closed but there was another way out which meant we had the powder all to ourselves....
If it's due to lack of snow then Boredsurfing's advice is sound.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I've done it with instructors (who did warn us not to try this at home). On my own, I wouldn't. One slalom piste near us is often closed to the public (and clearly labelled as such) presumably because being kept for competition. People do ski it, and if I were a piste patroller I'd nick them and tell them off. 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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A closed piste is off piste - same rules apply. Unless it's closed because of race prep in which case you really are placing your life in the patrollers' hands.
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Be particularly careful about pistes open in the morning that close in the afternoon in spring, its often because the slope above them may avalanche onto the piste.
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Steve Sparks, not in the US.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I would urge you to go to Henry's Avalanche talk website here http://www.henrysavalanchetalk.com/
You can watch the first one for free, which includes his advice on skiing closed pistes. I watched it the other night and it's changed my view of skiing a closed piste.
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snowlamb, were you on the glacier? there were closed pistes last year and folk were skiing them - reason for closure was crevasses
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Steve Sparks,
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A closed piste is off piste
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In insurance terms a closed piste is NOT the same as off piste. Most policies cover you off piste (one way or another) BUT not for closed pistes. Pistes are generally closed for a reason that has made them a danger. You are not insured on a closed piste.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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stoatsbrother, OK, but the OP's question related to Tignes. Never been to the US to ski, but I think I'd still follow the same principles if I chose to ski a closed trail - assume no avvy protection and if in a glacial area assume unsecured crevasses and that you need out of bounds and unguided insurance cover.
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| Steve Sparks wrote: |
A closed piste is off piste - same rules apply.
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No it's not and no they don't. You can be arrested for skiing on a Closed Piste. Pistes are closed for safety reasons, whether it be insufficient snow cover, avalanche danger or race preparation.
Don't do it.
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You know it makes sense.
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holidayloverxx, I hope the reason was not crevasses - we had been on it the day before when it had been open!
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Fri 20-11-09 22:33; edited 1 time in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Steve Sparks wrote: |
| stoatsbrother, OK, but the OP's question related to Tignes. Never been to the US to ski, but I think I'd still follow the same principles if I chose to ski a closed trail - assume no avvy protection and if in a glacial area assume unsecured crevasses and that you need out of bounds and unguided insurance cover. |
[pedant on ] No glacial resort areas in the US [/pendant off]
I've never known the legal position in Europe but always assumed there was a great reason to be closed. As above I've seen idiots/the less aware ducking ropes in front of pisteurs who were trying protecting skiers on a relatively dull piste from wet slides saying, yes they were English, "We did it an hour ago, there weren't any rocks"
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Poster: A snowHead
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fatbob, I was in Val D'Isere when 3 British Idiots skied Face when it was closed, they got into trouble and had to be rescued. Level 5 Avalanche danger at the time, they were rescued, arrested and thrown in jail, ended up with a huge fine.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I did one in Are and it was closed because it was a total series of frozen vehicle tracks with about 10 feet of broken crud between each ankle snapping rut. Almost made my fillings fall out but I had to get in a world cup downhill run. I had scoped it out, checked out the bottom and made sure that I had off piste access/exit points along the way.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Pistes are closed for a reason. I was almost killed skiing on a closed piste that was in the middle being bombed for avalanches. Not worth it unless you know why it's closed.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Boredsurfing wrote: |
Steve Sparks,
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A closed piste is off piste
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In insurance terms a closed piste is NOT the same as off piste. Most policies cover you off piste (one way or another) BUT not for closed pistes. Pistes are generally closed for a reason that has made them a danger. You are not insured on a closed piste. |
Well policies that cover you for off piste always (IME) have exceptions when the resort management advise against it. So this is just the same, in that (obviously) the resort management are advising against it, and you would therefore NOT be covered.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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yawn...... that's some pisspoor trolling
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barry, meaning?
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Ask patrol why it's closed. A trail might be closed simply because there is no uplift operating from the foot of it, in which case it's no issue if you have touring kit or are prepared to hike. Fortunately for home based skiers skiing here the insurance factor is not an issue and basically closed equates to the same standing as terrain beyond the patrol boundary.
Ignoring avalanche closures is the biggest no-no in my mind because you may very well endanger others as well as yourself.
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| Well policies that cover you for off piste always (IME) have exceptions when the resort management advise against it |
Seems like an absurd get out clause, by definition, off-piste is beyond the control of the resort management. Off-piste skiing might not even be anywhere close to a lift served resort. 
For those who attempt to take the moral high ground and preach from on high saying NEVER do it. On several occasions here patrollers (at more than one ski area) were quite happy to admit to closing terrain not because it was CLOSED, but to discourage those who shouldn't be on that terrain in the first place.
So there is also the whole different debate about 'crying wolf'.
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Winterhighland, quite right.
It's important to know the history and reason for the closure. I was once taken down the Face in Val d'I by an instructor one December. In this case he made the point that in that particular case it was effectively off-piste as it had never been open that season. If the piste has never been opened then it cannot be actively closed and it is effectively off-piste. If it had been opened though, then the closure is a deliberate act and you must not ski it. In the event it became apparent that it had not been opened because of very poor base for about 100yds - which did my ski bases a huge power of no good. 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Boredsurfing,
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Pistes are always closed for a good reason. Quite often because the snow has gone so you will wreck your ski's.
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Sometimes at the start of the season pistes will be closed because they want to save the decent snow for the people coming over the expensive Christmas / NY weeks! And those cheap skates there at the start of the season may be on a cheap lift pass, so they don't want to give you full access. I've seen this in Wengen anyway!
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Pistes are closed for a reason.
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Ask patrol why it's closed.
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That should take care of it.
I've skied in closed piste because I can see part of it was not covered by snow but the rest were fine (seen it from top and bottom). So I walked the bits not skiable and had reasonably good time the rest of the piste.
Another time I saw someone else ducking under the rope into a nice piste that's close. I couldn't see the bottom bits so I passed. After it was open, I skied it and realize it was steep enough to need avi control. Glad I didn't go. Though those clueless peeps survived with no harm, I'm not ready to take such chance with MY life.
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Sat 21-11-09 20:57; edited 1 time in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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2 weeks before the winter oplympics in 2006 the Sportinia piste in Sauze was closed. Didn't know why, saw quite a few peeps duck under the tape and head off down. Three of us stood and ummed and aaahhhed for a few minutes but thought "what the heck" and we ducked under and skied to the bottom. It hadn't been pisted and was tough but quite enjoyable. Skied it several times in the day and as the car was parked at the lift at the bottom (which was running) we skied it at the end of the day. Great fun. Chatting to a tour rep later on she was horrified that we'd skied it and warned us not to do it coz if we'd had an accident we wouldn't have been insured (drag ourselves through the trees and on to the open adjacent piste was her actual advice).
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Boredsurfing,
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Pistes are always closed for a good reason. Quite often because the snow has gone so you will wreck your ski's.
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They can be closed because it is the end of the day and the lift is off. I stayed in Bettex (I think) a few years ago and skiied a closed piste at the end of every day. It was the piste back towards our chalet. We got the last lift up to the top of the piste from the main resort and most days the piste was closed by then becuase the lift back upto that point had already shut. We then skiied the closed piste to the bottom of the valley, and then skiied a flat off piste track through the trees that came out just above our chalet. In the mornings there was a choice of walking/skining up the track to the lift, or waiting for a minibus that took you to the main resort, but was always a scrum to catch.
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Boredsurfing,
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Pistes are always closed for a good reason. Quite often because the snow has gone so you will wreck your ski's.
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They can be closed because it is the end of the day and the lift is off. I stayed in Bettex (I think) a few years ago and skiied a closed piste at the end of every day. It was the piste back towards our chalet. We got the last lift up to the top of the piste from the main resort and most days the piste was closed by then becuase the lift back upto that point had already shut. We then skiied the closed piste to the bottom of the valley, and then skiied a flat off piste track through the trees that came out just above our chalet. In the mornings there was a choice of walking/skining up the track to the lift, or waiting for a minibus that took you to the main resort, but was always a scrum to catch.
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You know it makes sense.
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They can be closed because it is the end of the day and the lift is off.
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Indeed, and in an area you don't know you could find yourself with a very long and unpleasant climb - our home run is always closed early because of it's length, and closing the bottom lift, but they do have a small gate in the fence - and a notice saying that only people staying down the bottom should ski down there. There are usually pisteurs hovering around chasing people down.
Skiing a closed piste at the end of the day can be particularly hazardous if they've done their last sweep. Wasn't somebody killed by a piste basher last year, in the dark, presumably doing exactly that? Though possibly that's preferable to dying of exposure with a broken leg at 5 am.
A couple of years ago some d*ckhead posted on SHs boasting that he'd skied all the black runs in the Three Valleys - half of which were closed - on one day with his young kids. 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Skiing a closed piste at the end of the day can be particularly hazardous if they've done their last sweep. Wasn't somebody killed by a piste basher last year, in the dark, presumably doing exactly that? Though possibly that's preferable to dying of exposure with a broken leg at 5 am.
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Yes, and its no different to me skiing the ciste gulley, West Wall or M2 when its closed cos there's not enough snow to run the WW poma or skiing Lurchers. Though with the first two I'll check with patrol if I think there may be an avalanche risk (though usually they'll stick up a sign in that situation). You know that if you have an accident your on your own and you ski with that in mind. I've skied runs in the dark aswell when coming back from a long tour.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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And a large beer if the poster 'fesses up on this thread 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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maybe we should have a "confessions" thread, like the long-standing feature in Yachting Monthly?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Got to say I have done it but very rarely and only when I can see the far end. It's usually a matter of wanting to get from one area to another and said piste is the link.
I've also done it to get to the valley when I know it's a crappy run and the skiing is marginal but it is do-able and I don't want to walk or download.
Shiga Kogen - Japan > shortcut to another area
La Tania - crappy slush and grass but (just about) skiable
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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there's no doubt that skiing closed pistes would invalidate a lot of insurances - certainly those such as Dogtag who prohibit skiing "against local advice".
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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There could be a reason unknown to you why a certain area is closed.
If i want to go on some unmolested terrain,
I just go BC.
No crowds, no ski patrol to worry about,
and no lift ticket to lose.
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Sooo, who skis closed pistes after too many bottles of wine? As we're clearly in a confessional mood...
Have skied many closed pistes, often with the pisteurs who'd closed them. Often they're closed for the most pathetic reasons. Wouldn't do it unless I knew what was going on though...
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I once had a bad accident on a closed piste. It was closed for Super-G training, I was the one doing the training, but some Norwegian family ducked under the quite substantial crash-netting and skied onto the piste. I clipped their 10yr old son on the lip of a roller as he skied in from the side. A tenth of a second later I'd have crashed straight into him and probably seriously injured him. The only damage done was his ripped ski suit and I tore the deflex plate off my ski after landing sideways having taken some major unexpected air off the roller. Fortunately my bindings popped. I also witnessed another couple of near misses, one on the OK piste in Val during WC DH training where someone had done similar and another on the WM-Strecke in Saalbach when someone came very close to getting very well acquainted with Bode Miller as he was doing Super-G training there.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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ive boarded a closed piste with 3 mates. an avalanche had blocked it about 2/3rd of the way down.. the conditions had been shite and its was such a tempting piece of courdrouy.. we figured we would just ski up the side of th episte and over the fluffy looking avalanche snow that was just blocking the run down.. when we reached the arm chair sized lumps of brown rock hard ice that was about 20 feet deeper than we thought and managed to get round the far sid eof it we decided that it was time to adjourn for the day .
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On the other hand there is no such thing as closed off-piste (in Europe, that is). Or at least I have never heard of such a thing if so.
Long ago I once arrived at a connecting black piste with a guide which turned out to be closed, so he simply took us down a bit of steeper off-piste next to it.
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