 Poster: A snowHead
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I reckon skis last around 120 days based on experience but I don't have a feel (sic) for how long I should expect from a pair of boots. I've seen instructors who presumably ski all day, every day, every season, skiing around in very, very old models.
Reason for question? I'm contemplating getting Profeet to make custom liners for my Tecnica Icons. They just don't hold me as well as they used to (presume the liners are compressing) and they're uncomfortable when tightened to the point that they secure my foot properly.
Bought in late 2002 and I reckon done about 120 days on snow. That's about the limit of what I think skis ought to last - so am I throwing good money (250 quid) at a pair of shells with a limited lifespan. I am assuming, never having had them before, that custom liners are customed not just to your feet but to the boot shell as well so non-transferable.
As I type this I think I may have answered my own question, but I'd be interested in others opinions.
Thanks.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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David Murdoch, it's more likely that your liners are worn out than your boots!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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120 days sounds about right for boots and skis - I'm only on my third ever pair of boots and third ever pair of skis, and each pair has had maybe 15 weeks skiing, I hired before that. For the skis if you do a lot of off-piste or early/late season you might wreck a pair a lot quicker, but boots should last ages, and like you say, the way they feel will tell you it's time to change.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Wear The Fox Hat, Oh agreed absolutely. Definitely the liners have worn.
Maybe the question should have been how long do boot shells last. I.e. Am I being daft in getting custom liners blown for shells that will crack or otherwise fall apart after maybe only another season? Probably. That said, I know/have seen quite a few instructors in the Portes du Soleil still skiing in Tecnica TNTs from 1990/1.
The other course of action is (if possible) getting the guys at Profeet to just pad/stretch/etc the boots & liners to fit as well as they can and save the cost of the custom stuff. And budget for a new pair next year.
Plake, I agree on skis, I just have an intuition that boots seem to last longer - although that might include using them after they've gone "off"
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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David Murdoch, As regards the lifetime of the skiboot shell, I presume there may be a finite lifetime, but it will depend on factors such as the exact plastic material composition, exposure to sunlight, amount of deformation (flex) experienced in use etc. Of course if you walk around much in resort in your ski boots the heel and toe pieces can soon get worn, (potentially affecting the correct interface with the bindings) but I am sure you are aware that these are replaceable.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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David Murdoch, shells definitely soften over time, and 120 days may be about it. Note: how many seasons is that, since time makes a difference, too (plastic degrades over time). Given the changes in design, I'd seriously consider new boots if I were in yours. 
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The instructors I have spoken to all tell me they get a brand new pair of "work" boots & skis at the start of each season, then bin then at the end. The idea of keeping the boots and just replacing the liners has merit, but only you can judge whether the shells are as stiff as they used to be, or whether the buckles etc will last.
Can't see how new liners will stiffen the boot to any significant extent. If you want a stiffer boot you will have to upgrade I think.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Hi the ice perv,
re instructors getting kit, I'm sure that some do if they're sponsored, but I know not all get them free.
The shells are as stiff as they used to be and the buckles LOOK OK. The question is really is it more cost effective to use the shells with custom liners until the shells degrade beyond reasonable use ...or not. The key variable being how long are the shells likely to last. Which no-one seems to know... The problem I have is that I skied in my old boots (>150 days skied) and found them better than my new ones (~120 days skied).
Re liners stiffening the boot - that's just what the guy at Profeet said might happen. presumably related to how stiff the shells are - i.e. adding a fairly rigid liner to a very soft shell may stiffen it but wouldn't happen to an already stiff boot. My boots are pretty rigid so I would not really expect any effect. If they get stiffer, that suits me fine anyway. Upgrading (in the UK anyway) would be difficult...
Hi also Manda,
250 quid gets you analysed on a nordic ski machine (i.e. how does your muscles and joints work while in ski-simulation), fully aligned including a variety of very high tech scans of where your leg fits/moves/etc, custom footbeds and custom liners foamed and takes 1.5 - 2.0 hours. It's 50 quid more than Slush and Rubble or Ellis Brigham would charge and AFAIK they don't do any of the analysis and alignment work.
99 quid will get you all the analysis, custom liners and any padding, grinding and stretching needed to get standard liners to fit properly. Again takes about the same time. See http://www.profeet.co.uk for more details.
Decisions, decisions. Anyway appointment made, we'll see what they say.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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David Murdoch, when I said many instructors "get" new boots & skis I didn't mean for free, I meant "get or buy". Obviously if you get free new stuff every season you would ditch your old gear quite happily.
If you are keeping the shells & just replacing the liners, would you need to get all the alignment etc redone??
£99 sounds like a fair deal but £250 sounds like overkill, unless you have long-standing stance/anatomical problems you haven't told us about...?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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G'day folks,
Anyone know where I can buy boots in threes?
Later,
Jake
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the ice perv, many instructors I know have two pair of boots, one for teaching that is warmer, softer, and easier to flex for demos at lower speeds and a second for freeskiing (usually top-of-the-line, plug or semi-plug boots). Many of them do get new ones every year. I'd never get that idea past the accountant. 
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You know it makes sense.
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the ice perv, sorry! my misunderstanding. You do hoon straight to my dilemma though in that the 250 quid custom ones are going into boot shells that already have around 120 days use - so surely not much left. Some of it hard, some of it at lunch  in which case, it'll be wasted as the custom liners are unlikely to transfer perfectly into other shells.
#99 to get a badly fitting boot adjusted to fit properly seems fine to me too, even if I only get another 30 confortable days out of them, but #250 is certainly overkill.
ssh, what's a plug boot? Tecnica have ones with electric heaters, is that what you mean? American English-English english translation required...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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David Murdoch, "plug boots" are those that are designed for the highest levels of skiing, specifically racing. The World Cup versions use a "plug" for the foot when molding the shell that only barely approximates a human foot. The boot fitter then grinds and works the shell until the plastic actually fits the skier. The liner, then, is very thin (mine is about 3-5mm), and really only serves to (slightly!) cushion the foot against the plastic (instead of to really fill in gaps, etc. as often is done with thicker liners in more consumer-level boots). Examples of plug boots are the Tecnica XT17 (the Diablo Race Pro is less so), the Nordica Doberman (not the Pro), the Atomic Race Tech, and the Lange/Rossi Plug (doesn't really have a name, last I checked).
Hope this helps. Sorry about the UK-US thing... I try!
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Poster: A snowHead
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ssh, aha, enlightened thank you. Not terminology I've come across before. And in fact, not something one sees in retailers in the UK either - except maybe Bartlets (who specialise in race kit) by special order. It seems to me that the US has a much easier access to "race" technology - possibly because of your rather excellent club race programmes.
I guess the last time I got close to those were my pair of the original TNTs in, ummm, 1990. Nice and stiff! Haven't felt the need to go so rigid in ski boot terms since.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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David Murdoch, I had a pair of those same TNTs! In fact, they are still up in the attic right now.
In my opinion, they are definitely worth finding. They flex so much better than any other boot I've ever been on, and I've skied the (consumer) "race boots" for years. The flex is completely smooth. None of the "chatter" that I had grown accustomed to having when I flex forward. Just a smooth, spring-like flex. It's like butter. Even if it is "stiff", the smoothless changes the way that the boots ski. I don't know that I'll ever go back to consumer grade boots again. (To be sure, btw, these "plug boots" are not the same as the WC boots. If they were, I couldn't flex them, I'm sure, and I wouldn't enjoy them, either. Hence, I call them "semi-plug" or "consumer-plug".) Next time you're somewhere that might have them (in the US or Europe) try them on. They are amazing.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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ssh, Thank you for the recommendation. As it happens, my mate in France has a few pairs of Icon XT170s at a ridiculously low price - being a couple of seasons old. If he has my size, I'l certainly give them a try. And I guess this answers the foam/not foam question over my current and at least 2/3s used pair. I've also seen the Diablo Race in Italy which might also be an entertaining purchase.
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FAQ
But my prior pairs of TNTs developed an entertaining zebra pattern where the buckles were with colour fade and who knows what UV induced de-plasticisation.
