 Poster: A snowHead
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Quick question on these quick edge tuners, or any edge tuner/guide for that mater.
If my board has a 1 degree base bevel and I use an edge tuner set to 90 degrees (or a fixed 90 degree guide), when I make the pass of the edge tuner up the board, it will give me an edge of 90 degrees from the base of the board, but since the edge itself has a 1 degree base bevel then I assume the angle of the resulting edge itself will in fact be 91 degrees ?
Therefore I assume, if my board has a 1 degree base bevel and I want a 90 degree edge, I should set the edge tuner to be 89 degrees ?
Like wise I am guessing an edge tuner set at 88 degrees will give me an edge of 89 degrees if my my base bevel is 1 degree ?
Am I correct in my thinking here ?
My riding is mainly piste and powder, not park/pipe (I occassionaly do a pass through the smaller kickers), so I was thinking of trying a configuration of 1 deg base, and an edge of 90 or 89 degrees, to give me extra grip in icy conditions, leading me to beleive I want an edge guide that will do 88 or 89 degrees ?
I want to make sure I use the correct setting. I haven’t purchased the kit yet, - want to make sure I understand what angles I will need before I buy.
Thanks
G
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Gazzza wrote: |
Quick question on these quick edge tuners, or any edge tuner/guide for that mater.
If my board has a 1 degree base bevel and I use an edge tuner set to 90 degrees (or a fixed 90 degree guide), when I make the pass of the edge tuner up the board, it will give me an edge of 90 degrees from the base of the board, but since the edge itself has a 1 degree base bevel then I assume the angle of the resulting edge itself will in fact be 91 degrees ?
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Correct.
| Quote: |
Therefore I assume, if my board has a 1 degree base bevel and I want a 90 degree edge, I should set the edge tuner to be 89 degrees ?
Like wise I am guessing an edge tuner set at 88 degrees will give me an edge of 89 degrees if my my base bevel is 1 degree ?
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Correct.
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Am I correct in my thinking here ?
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Yes, but, and it's a BIG BUT:
(1 base 2 side) is SO different in ski feel from (0 base 1 side) or (2 base 3 side) that calling the enclosed edge angle "89 degrees" is utterly useless.
Call out the base bevel and the side bevel instead, in that order, keep things simple.
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My riding is mainly piste and powder, not park/pipe (I occassionaly do a pass through the smaller kickers), so I was thinking of trying a configuration of 1 deg base, and an edge of 90 or 89 degrees, to give me extra grip in icy conditions, leading me to beleive I want an edge guide that will do 88 or 89 degrees ?
I want to make sure I use the correct setting. I haven’t purchased the kit yet, - want to make sure I understand what angles I will need before I buy.
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Following my own principle, (1 base 2 side) is a good start, unless your edges are already set to (1 base 3 side).
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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OK thanks.
So if I am aiming for 1 base 2 side (which gives me my badly referenced 89 degree "edge"), assuming my base is set at 1, I need to use the edge guide set at 88 ?
OK so now I realise why quoting base and side bevels works better than quoting edge angle, as the edge bevel is always the angle away from the 90 degree vertical regardless of what the base bevel is, thus 88 degree on the edge guide gives a 2 edge bevel no matter what the base bevel is set to (as opposed to my thinking which was it was giving me an actual edge angle and therefore having to add the base bevel angle in). It suddenly makes sense - I was confusing myself thinking of it in terms of edge angle when in reality the guide gives you an edge bevel. I suppose arguably the angle of the final edge itself is therefore always 90 deg – side bevel angle + base bevel angle.
(realisation suddenly dawns on man  )
Cheers
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I thought I understood edge angles until now. Think I might go and lie down in a darkened room....
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Whatever edge/base tuner you use, always use the same one on any particular board/skis. With the small angles that are being talked about, using different tools can results in the removal of more edge that really needed. For example, 2 deg; on my swix edge guide is noticeably different than 2 deg on my winterstieger discman - despite both claiming to be 2 deg - swappping from one to the other will lead to unnecessary loss of edge. Ok, it depends on how often you edge your skis/boards: once every few months isn't going to make much difference: but racers doing it every run will certainly shorten the life of their edges.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I emailed Burton Europe to ask what the original factory angles are on the board (it's a Baron, they don't make it anymore)
This was their reply :
Burton has spec’ed a 1% edge detune angle for board running length, and generally ≈2% in the area of the contact points.
I've emailed them back to clarify but that reads to me like there is no base bevel (as I had asked for info on both side & base bevels), and that the edges are actually de-tuned (not tuned!) such that the effective edge angle is greater than 90 degrees. Also looks like they detune more at the tip and tail than the main length.
I am fairly sure this will have been overridden by the numerous shop tunes i've had over the years or the tunes done by the ski tech chap in the chalet I stayed in this year. I can't imagine they would be using different angles at the base then the ends, other than a light scrape at the tip and tail to detune after doing the edge.
Also I can't imagine I have been riding with effectively a negative edge bevel (ie. an edge of more than 90 degrees).
To be fair up until now I have been fairly ignorant of different edge options and have just taken it to a shop and said "wax and edge please" and handed over my 10-20 euros. Though to an extent, and perhaps as my riding has got better, maybe this is why i have become increasingly more unhappy with shop tunes of late....
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Does edge bevel make much difference if you're not hitting rails/boxes?
If you want grip in ice, go for a board with magnetraction. It works like the marketing says it does.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Gazzza, it sounds to me like the factory gave you a 1 degree base bevel and 2 degrees at the contact points so that the edge prefers to engage from the end of the board inwards. Sounds like a pretty soft board too (I don't really know much about snowboards, so take that impression for what it's worth).
If so, I'm betting it was done as a nominal (1,1) so enclosed edge of 90 degrees, until the first shop rat got to it anyway.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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It’s not overly soft, actually I think it's reasonably stiff. It’s supposed to be an all mountain board, able to do a bit of everything, but it's a wide board and designed for people with bigger feet and assumedly generally bigger heavier people (no reference to my expanding gut  ) so is probably a bit stiffer than your average mid-stiffness all-round board which. I recall it had a “feel rating” of something like 7 on Burton scale of 1 to 10. I’ve always found it very stable at high speed, whereas other boards I’ve used in the past can start getting a bit “flappy” once the speed picks up. That said it does have partial freestyle twinge to it, so there is a bit of flex for pop. I think its been replaced by the custom wide – I’ve not ridden this but from reading around it would appear to be an all round softer ride than the Baron was and generally less aggressive with a lower “feel” rating.
Anyway…. it seems to me that, if your assumption is right, I probably need to leave the base bevel as is, and concentrate on the side bevel. Only question now is do I start with a 1 or a 2 side bevel on it.
G
PS. spyderjon, great page/site. Thanks for the link
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Gazzza, if it's been through a shop it could be anything, the only way to calculate it is to draw on it with some pen and then use different edge guides starting at 0 to see which on takes the ink off. Alternatively you could start with your one degree guide, ride it and see if you want to change to the 2 degree.
When I put my board in for a base grind it came back with a 0 degree base edge angle, this was very noticeable.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Gazzza wrote: |
Anyway…. it seems to me that, if your assumption is right, I probably need to leave the base bevel as is, and concentrate on the side bevel.
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That's how I would start also.
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Only question now is do I start with a 1 or a 2 side bevel on it.
G
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I'd go with 2side, at worst you wind up with (2,2) nominal
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Interesting - just had a further clarifcation email to say it's actually 1% bevel, NOT a 1 degree bevel.
Assuemdly this means it's 1% of 90 degrees, thus 0.9 of a degree then.
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FAQ
Now the big question is: what is already on the board?
