Poster: A snowHead
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first black for me was chamonix, from the top of the brevent, pretty scary but felt it was much less scary than taking "that" cable car back down!!!!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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DaddyLouLou, Ecurueils is often termed 'The easiest black in the Alps', rightly so, it may have black markers, and a bit tricky when bumpy, but it ain't a black.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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allanm wrote: |
DaddyLouLou, Ecurueils is often termed 'The easiest black in the Alps', rightly so, it may have black markers, and a bit tricky when bumpy, but it ain't a black. |
Indeed, I wonder which run I was referring too as below, having spent last season in Peisey-Vallandry...
bertie bassett wrote: |
1st black on skis - doddle but it was really only a red, albeit dark red in places and didn't have any 'oh !"£"$$%%' pitches too it. |
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Solden, quite a few years ago. 3rd day skiing. It was horrible....
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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On the other hand Clair Blanc (again in Les Arcs) is a red, although unpisted, the entrance is.. well / can be... tricky... IMHO much more difficult than many blacks. But then I still struggle with narrow steep entrances, so it's what you're comfy with.
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Tortin! (But it wasn't mogulled.)
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My first black pitch was one of those short but fairly sharp ones - I did it in perfect snow and couldn't have done it without the assistance of BMF_Skier I wouldn't have tackled it by myself, but he gave me the moral support that I needed to have a bash at it (the shot in the bar at the top may have helped a little too). I stood back and looked at it I think for a little bit too long, and did falter as I went over the edge - traversed and run out of slope to put in a turn on. Took a wee bit of stick for being a wus and gave myself a stern talking to. Then I rather inelegantly backed back across the slope - with a weather eye on other folks approaching - there were none - took a deep breath and launched in to the first do or die (well that's what it felt like) turn. At that point I placed all my confidence in my lessons - and chanted the 'turn mantra' out loud, pressure off the inside ski, let them fall into the fall line (YIKES!), pressure on the downhill ski - wow they are coming around, turn complete and I'm back across the slope (Bloody hell it worked!! ), well I'd done one and not come to grief, deep breath try the next - same drill - wow!! Got a rhythm now.........one turn after another, after another, the slope is getting less - wow!! I'm down!!!!! Huge grins!! No-one saw it except BMF_skier, but I did it
I tried another later on in the week - no longer in length, but only with my Swiss Friend for company. It was more icy and the snow was not as good - I got stuck for longer and ended up side slipping about 20ft height, but got going in the finish and got down. The second was not as successful as the first in my book.
I'm not keen on moguls - my only real experience with them was on that Red in the Orelle valley with Tall Tone & Co EoSB 2008 - not impressed with them!
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I've figured it out. It was actually a run down into Leysin on my first ever ski trip.
After about a week a couple of mates and I decided to ski all the way down the mountain rather than download. We follow a nice blue or red or something, turns into a road, all easy peasy. Road opens out onto what looks like a wide open field except it's at an angle and covered in bumps. Hilarious. By this time I was used to falling over every minute or so but my mate slid most of the way down on his back, head-first. Now that was funny.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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paulio, now that I'm armed with a very good piste map of La Thuile and La Rosière which shows the length and pitch of all runs, I know precisely which ones to avoid. Blacks 2 and 3 on the Italian side down to resort don't look as bad as some, and black 5 in the same area seems relatively mild. However black 9A at Chaz Dura with a length of 350m and an elevation drop of 250m does not sound like my idea of fun!! I shall also avoid red 1 and blacks 2 & 3 on the French side for similar reasons!
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paulio wrote: |
queen bodecia, I love those 'experts only' signs. They're rarely all that meaningful beyond 'take care on this one'.
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The first such sign I ever saw was at the bottom of a drag lift in Soldeu!
Which our instructor was in the process of telling us to take - when we pointed it out to him (most of us were 2nd week skiers), he said "You have been skiing red runs, so that means you. Just don't fall off it".
I think it might still be the steepest drag I've used, and it had a nasty kink in the middle. But we did all make it to the top.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Levi Black World Cup run in Finland. Very steep at the top and very icey due to everyone skidding to a stop at the start of the really steep bit. Has a fantastic run our at the bottome so easier to just point the skis down and gooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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the first black run I did was with an instructor in Austria. He didn't tell us till we stopped for a breather half way down, having followed him conscientiously as he laid down a nice series of big S shaped turns. Then he told us it was black - nobody had had any problems but probably we'd all have been faffing and panicking if he'd told us at the outset. But then he told us that particular run was used as a men's downhill - and that the place where we'd stopped for a breather after loads of turns was where the racers would put in their first turn. That really put it in perspective for us, as did his telling us (when we asked if he ever did that) that the difference between our level of ski ability and his was a lot less than between his level and that of downhill racers.
As he pointed out, loads of austrians ski well enough to be instructors, but only a handful are downhill racers! I learnt a lot that day.
Obsession with piste colours is daft - as pointed out above. Some blacks, some days, are easy. Some reds, some days, very difficult. and there's no comparison even between blacks in resort, let alone those in different resorts. There are some easy blacks in our area and some I really hesitate to tackle.
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My first time was in Livigno! In my second week skiing and I don't remember it being bad at all. As a beginner it was part of the progression - do a blue, do a red then do a black. you quickly learn there's a lot of grey areas between blue red and black. I'd be happy skiing reds with the odd black in France but elsewhere I'd be looking for blacks for a challenge. That slushy home run in Soll is the most carnage I've seen on a red.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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pam w wrote: |
Obsession with piste colours is daft - as pointed out above. Some blacks, some days, are easy. Some reds, some days, very difficult. and there's no comparison even between blacks in resort, let alone those in different resorts. There are some easy blacks in our area and some I really hesitate to tackle. |
Absolutely right!! Condition of runs can literally change overnight, so 'The easiest black in the Alps' can be a real nightmare if it's in really bad shape..
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Poster: A snowHead
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andyph wrote: |
Bikergirl, I was thinking that if you're happy having your skis parallel you should be able to side-slip somewhere on all but the steepest pistes. |
Ouch. I'm not sure that I'd give that advice. I'd recommend starting with a short, groomed black pitch with a decent run-out that can be fully examined in advance; most resorts have something suitable. Try it in bright sunlight at a time of day when you're onfident that there's no ice. When you've broken the psychological barrier, move on to more ambitious blacks.
But my own first black was the Schilthorn in Murren, profoundly mogulled and in heavy snow. It was my 9th day on skis - 195cm straights - and they wouldn't turn even when I saw a bump through the blizzard. It was awesome and I've never looked back.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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My first black was Silene in Tignes - it wasn't an unqualified success (given the giant moguls) & in fact led to my first deliberate off-piste excursion as I decided to bail & head for the nearby red about half-way down Must admit, I like it a lot now, but it wasn't perhaps the best choice for an entry-level black...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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queen bodecia wrote: |
So in Courmayeur last season I only attempted one (Des Eves) which was OK. There were three others, one of which was unpisted (Dell Orso), one which I could see from the chairlift and didn't like the look of (Rocce Bianche) and one which had a sign at the top saying 'expert skiers only' (Diretta), so I shied away from them. |
Diretta was my first black, I did it in a lesson. If I remember correctly, it was the same width and the same gradient all the way down - fairly steep but nice and even. At least one of the reds there has a section as steep (and no wider), but just not as long. I think the instructor thought of it as the easiest of the black runs there, at least in those conditions - no moguls at all.
And it was much easier than Epaule du Charvet at Val d'Isere
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Don't really know... ski instructor went to take me on the first one I knew about - when I complained he enlightened me I'd been skiing them for a while... he would just ski me through the trees to get to them so I missed the black signs...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Quote: |
I'm going to La Thuile in Italy this season and the piste map cunningly has the elevation change and distance for each piste on it, so I can work out in advance if I think a run is going to be too steep for me to enjoy it. Very clever! |
How do you know the gradient is even all the way down? The slope could be a "nice" gradient all the way down or it could have a really step bit and a large flat bit. Same fall and distance but I'd prefer the former .
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sloop, you must mean the top bit of the highest run, Youla, which is red but the first bit is proper steep. Fortunately it's only a short steep bit with a very long run off. Red runs Aretu and Gigante had a couple of steep bits in too but not as bad as that I don't think.
peura, you're right I don't, but I could probably cope if it's just one or two small steep bits. What seems interesting is that the average gradients for the red runs on the Italian side are generally far less than on the French side. French red number 1 for example (Fontaine Froide) has an average gradient to match the blacks. I don't think that one has my name on it, lol!
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heavysoul,
Welcome to 's
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Many years ago - the black back into Zell am Zee girded my loins all week and did it on the last 2 days of the holiday, no where near as bad as I was expecting.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Jonny Jones, My first black fell into the description here:
Quote: |
I'd recommend starting with a short, groomed black pitch with a decent run-out that can be fully examined in advance; most resorts have something suitable. Try it in bright sunlight at a time of day when you're onfident that there's no ice
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The only thing I would add is that if its covered with the most ideal groomed snow cover going it has to be a plus point. In my case it was also tick VG in this respect too.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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queen bodecia wrote: |
paulio, now that I'm armed with a very good piste map of La Thuile and La Rosière which shows the length and pitch of all runs, I know precisely which ones to avoid. Blacks 2 and 3 on the Italian side down to resort don't look as bad as some, and black 5 in the same area seems relatively mild. However black 9A at Chaz Dura with a length of 350m and an elevation drop of 250m does not sound like my idea of fun!! I shall also avoid red 1 and blacks 2 & 3 on the French side for similar reasons! |
Yeah, you're making the mistake of calculating average gradient. 2 and 3 are very 'proper' black runs. They're mostly moderate red, with a really steep section to bring the average up. That one at Chaz Dura is tricky, mostly due to it being crowded from memory. You're right about 5. Easy.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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paulio, thanks for the tips. Guess I'll be avoiding 2 and 3 then and their equivalents on the La Rosière side.
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queen bodecia, no don't avoid them silly girl! Enjoy them. They're hilarious.
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You know it makes sense.
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paulio, the words "really steep section" do not equate to enjoyment. I'll stick to the bits I can do without freaking out ta!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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How do you know you can't do them?
The bits you *are* going to attempt: How do you know you can do those?
Stop worrying.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I know my limits! I don't enjoy nasty steep and if they're icy too then really not for me at all. I'm a holiday recreational skier not a thrill seeker.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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First day of my third week on skis. 1990. Megeve (can't remember the piste name). In 6 inches of untracked fresh snow (wet, not nice powder). Was skiing for the first time with a mate of mine who was a much better skier.
Him "Let's have a crack at that"
Me "Weeeellllll...."
Him " Go on, you'll be fine"
Me "Errr..."
Him (heads off down the hill)
I fell. Repeatedly. Most turns. Arrived at the bottom cross and distinctly soggy.
Him "Yeah, sorry about that. Bit heavy"
Dispite the provocation, some years later he was my best man. And I his. We're off to Alagna in Jan.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Quote: |
I love those 'experts only' signs. They're rarely all that meaningful beyond 'take care on this one'
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Or has seen at Heavenly, Tahoe above Mott Canyon
"Super Experts only"
Which I imagine means "don't bother phoning your lawyer if you get into trouble down here". Because god only knows what a "super expert" is. Think it might be American for "Advanced"
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Quote: |
I know my limits! I don't enjoy nasty steep and if they're icy too then really not for me at all. I'm a holiday recreational skier not a thrill seeker.
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Right. I think lots of people think like this - it's a holiday, after all. I've sailed quite a bit in my time and there are some people who really don't bother unless it's blowing a hooley and the boat is over on its ear. It's just "hanging in there" time. But a nice reach, in a decent breeze, with time to look around and enjoy it, and trim the sails really well, is great. It grieves me to be in a boat which is over-pressed, making huge leeway and just not doing the job efficiently, and it grieves me to hack down a black run when I could be doing really good turns down a red run. For me, there's just no point.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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pam w, i think it is just something to tick off the list really. If there is a nice red to ride I would always take it in preference to a tricky black unless the black is big and wide or is just one of those '100 meters at the top' types, especially in mixed ability company.
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I have no idea at all! I always go with a group, with a leader/guide/instructor I trust. He/she works out a route and I follow. My fear of being left alone on the mountain and getting lost is far, far bigger than going down a run of whatever colour. I just don't look!
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My first black was in Meribel earlier this year. I picked up 3 girls on a ski lift. They were all doctors, two were very good skiers, and then tempted me down a black called Ecureil (though I think it is sometimes red). Nothing like a bit of peer pressure from the opposite sex, is there... Nothing to it.
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James the Last, 3 girls and a first black run! So you don't do ambitious do you?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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