 Poster: A snowHead
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Morning  s,
I know this subjects got loads of topics but I couldn't find the info I was after. I'm looking at getting some tuning tools and just wondering how many bits I need and so was wondering roughly how often you all edge sharpen, wax, hot wax scrape etc. I've read a lot on tuning but am just unsure of the frequency of different tasks, obviously most is dependent on conditions but some info about your tuning habits would be great.
Can you just make a couple of passes with a diamond moonflex file down the edges after each day? Do you have to gummi de-burr as well after this?
I was looking at getting a kit for tuning and waxing and was wondering if I need a metal file, is this mainly for sharpening dull edges so if you diamond regularly is there a need for it or should you have one in case you have a stoney day?
Are the edge trick tools worth it? I'm out for most of the season so should I just cough up and get a kit with guides, files, stones etc?
How often do you find you need to sidewall plane, I'm getting some new skis so was planning to take to a shop to get them to hand plane the sidewalls at the beggining of the season, will this be enough or should I get a planer as well?
One last thing I'm getting atomic blackeye ti 09/10, loads of topics state all atomics have 1,3 angles. I emailed atomic for base/side angles and they said 1,2 I take it I need a 2 or 88 degree guide for side or does the 1 and 2 combined make it 87?
Thanks for any info,
Have a good weekend, for those who aren't still working 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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properjob, depends on what you're doing. Normal holiday skiing on decent snow - about once every 5 or 6 days, on a BASI course - every day, racing - every run.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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take a look at spyderjons website for info and tools etc clicky
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I just did a huge reply to this and it vanished, curses. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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friday the 13th init.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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properjob, I usually do a wax and edge weekly - 'cos I'm usually out for a week. Best answer will be 'It depends'... I'd diamond-stone my edges daily..maybe Zardoz every now and then, and wax when the base looks dry.
If you are skiing on hard snow (racing for example, or on artificial) you'll want sharp edges, and your edges will wear quicker.. but if soft snow (powder, end of season) you don't need such sharp edges - so I'd sharpen my edges when a) the felt blunt, or b) (Better) after diamond stone daily tweak shows that they are blunt.
As for waxing - a) when there is no wax left on the ski or b) after repairing some damage. Remember a waxed ski runs smoother than an unwaxed ski - so less friction = less damage.
Spyderjon's site is a good place to go for more info.
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When I took week holidays I'd do a proper tune when I got home: wax, edge and any base repairs; and give the edges a quick pass with a diamond stone most days.
However, when doing a season I found this was completely impractical and probably ended up waxing every few weeks giving the edges a touch up every couple of days and going at them with a Fitzwilliam file when I was losing the edge on hardpack. I was very hard on my board last winter and rode at La Grave quite a lot where the tree roots on the traverses destroy your edges very quickly, I probably should have taken some photos to show the damage but after riding there for a couple of days the edges were completely rounded off. As for base damage I learnt to ignore it, core shots just got a bit of wax dripped in until I could be bothered. This is down to a time thing, fixing and waxing takes a couple of hours but with big gaps for things to cool, stick and adsorb so to fix a hole would probably mean a day off but on those days I'd want to sleep or go food shopping which would take most of the day so then you'd end up with a day off to do all that stuff and begin tuning and then another to finish tuning, if you did that every week you'd lose 25% of your ski time!
If you want fast glide at the end of the season when the snow is warm get a stone grind with deep structure, a good wax and coat of zardoz. Like doo doo of a spade.
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Can the nanny filter recognise that Bastid file is a recognised term and allow it - anyone reading will look pretty stupid asking for a Fitzwilliam file in a hardware store.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Spyderjon will give you the "official" keep your kit tip top answer but as swirly indicates the more you speak to people with ski or board day in/day out the less tuning they do (unless they're racers etc).
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fatbob, It isn't difficult to sidestep the swear filter and write bastard file.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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FFS bastard isn't even swearing. But yes as fatbob says it's a bastard file you want, not a Fitzwilliam file.
It's a lot easier to keep your stuff in top shape if you stay on piste and spyderjon will know everything you need to know and a hell of a lot more. It is nice to have kit in top condition and to know how to do it yourself. I have no arguments against the proper way of doing it apart from the massive amount of time it takes which isn't a problem if you're at home: 20 minutes to do the edges and dewax any holes followed by 20 minutes filling them one night after work, 30 minutes to smooth off repairs, hot wax scrape and rewax the next night and 20 minutes the next night to scrape that wax or even leave it till next trip. That's only an hour and a half of work but spread over 3 days to allow for cooling.
TBH I don't really notice the difference between a freshly tuned board and one I've ridden for a week, maybe because the change is gradual or maybe I'm just shite. Also a lot of the things we were doing had a good change of riding over a rock or two or even scree with an inch of fresh snow on it so you can't afford to be precious about kit: you buy it to use it.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Swirly, so all your skis and boards are now rock skis/boards 
(ps beeper practice this weekend and i'm in Edinburgh 23rd so can transport some kit for our Scottish brother)
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kristof, is tomorrow good for you? I'll give you a ring later.
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You know it makes sense.
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So there you go - if you're out for an entire season, you just won't have time to do the job properly. when you're not thrashing it out on the snow, you're asleep or food shopping.  No wonder my boy never had time to write his old ma an email - he had to work, too! We are just elderly potterers 90% on piste, 0% tree roots. I get the OH to do the ski when I'm cooking tea. I suppose we touch up and wax about once a week, though it can be more often if the snow is particularly harsh. If clever stuff is needed, they go to the ski shop.
Spend a few hours learning how to do it in Spyderjon's garage; you won't regret it. I won't let the OH scrape wax off though, in normal conditions. It makes far too much mess on the wooden decking. We let the snow scrape it off. Idle, I know, and wouldn't do if I was trying to scrape a couple of hundredths of a second off my time on the downhill.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Swirly, tomorrow or Sunday is cool, bound to be hungover so not too early.
Played 5 a side last night, ACL is bomber but got more physio tonight to get rid of some pesky scar tissue and numbness. Serviced my kit in anticipation!
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Poster: A snowHead
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pam w, you have to wait for a windy day before scraping 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I have the exact same ski's brand new about 2 weeks ago, they are 1,3 out of the box
I am a pupil of Jons and talked to him about the skis, theis is what we decided to do
dewax and clean (wasnt much wax on em new
400, 800, 1400 diamond files on bases and edges, the side did not need cutting as the construction methid of the Blackeyes mean its not needed. The new edges were spot on 1 and 3
4 base waxes and scrapes with Dominator Base prep
4 waxes, scrapes and lots of brushing between with Dominator Zoom
Quick wipe with Zardoz Notwax to seal base and cover edges to stop rusting till I go skiing
Tools you need
1 deg base edge guide
3 deg side edge guide
100, 400 min diamond files
Metal file
Gummi stone
Wax
iron (I started years ago with a travel iron, have moved onto a proper iron now)
Steel scraper
Plastic scraper
Nylon brush (brass as well if you want excellent results)
Microfibre cloth to polish up
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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kristof, good news. Yeah I'll probably be hungover tomorrow too but was thinking of the afternoon anyway weather should be better then too.
madmole, I'd only use a 400 diamond along with a bastard file and you'll only ever do the base edge if you've had a base grind. You'll need an Alu Oxide stone too for getting rid of rock dings otherwise even a hardcore file won't do anything.
If ever you need to do base repair IMO the most useful bit of kit Jon sells is the base doc, kind of a gas powered soldering iron with a big head, sod lighting ptex candles weld them in with this bad boy and they'll never fall out and if you've got a big hole (the only ones worth fixing) you can do it in one go rather than having to drip a layer, scuff it and repeat. Trust me on this it's amazing, I've put a core shot on to an area that had a previous core shot fixed with it and half the ptex stayed in, if you dripped it in the whole lot would have come back out. Only problem is scraping the welded stuff is hard work but totally worth it.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Does anyone near Manchester offer something similar to Spyderjons website for ski tuning?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I was only listing basic tuning kit for a quick polish, I have a lot more kit than that. I use the RP100 base repair gun for big holes
Disagree on the base edge, it gets more abuse than the side edge and a fine diamond polish wont hurt it. plus on the new ski's I wanted to check the angle. The edges direct from Atomic where done very nicely anyway
Keep the edges sharp and the base well waxed and you'll hardly ever need a base grind anyway (unless you ski Borovits, where we found acorns rolled better than the slush they were pretending was snow!!)
Properjob, get over to Jons www.skiservice.co.uk, and read the guides, the tuning DVD he has is well worh it, but if you can get yourself booked on one of his tuning sessions and also get the new ski's campbell balanced. both worth every penny
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Metal files are for setting the edge angles in the first place. Once set you just need to polish and sharpen the edge and diamond files are fine. yes an oxide stone good for hard dings if you get them
many of those quick edge things you get use metal files, these work but are aggresive. The diamond files get a much finer edge with minimal removal of metal
Oh, I also put two layers of autoglym car polish on the tops. The blackeyes look sooooo good I wanted to protect the topsheets a bit
I had a cheap £2.50 argos travel iron with holes for about 5 years it was my only iron. Worked fiine, just wipe and clean before it cools and also clean it again as it warms up. Holes dont give problems and actually help distribute wax. Keep the temp as low as you can and still melt the wax and always keep it moving, feel the underside of the ski and only let it get warm. The pukka irons give you more temperature control, but to be honest, I like the lighter travel irons and I still carry that when away on trips rather than the big proper iron. My cheap travel irons has a 30 C degree temp swing, the pukka iron about 15. Bang for buck the travel iron is a better bet
I wax every 3 days or so when away and use zardoz when warm and toko liquid wx when colder each morning and lunch. My bases stay in great condition. In fact I have been skiing a set of Metrons for the last 5 seasons and have only just put them in for their first ever base grind this week. More to get structure than any other reason. Quick polish with fine diamond each evening and debur with gummi. I carry an aluoxide and diamond with cheap base and edge guide during day for quick touch ups if I ding em.
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Thanks again madmole, I can't make a trip to spyderjons but may go for his basic kit and a travel iron.
I'm not looking forward to the lovely topsheets getting trodden on in the first lift queue 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Yeah, that matt black and gloss red looks great. Gonna be a bug to keep like that though. Hard car polish helps a bit and stops the snow building up
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I know many won't agree (as I saw in previous similar threads about ski maintainance here) , but even if so... Waxing should be done often... very often. Waxes are made for less then 30km. Of course this goes for race waxes (except fluoro powders and some extra waxes which are not available outside of race service, since these waxes can be gone already after 2km), but "normal" consumer waxes are not all that different either. So they might last 40km, but even if they last twice as much it's still less then quite lot of people do in one single day. So if possible, skis should be waxed after every skiing. If not possible, then try to do it as often as possible. Well maintained ski gives completely different pleasure then ski which was waxed once every 3 years (unfortunately later one count as average ski nowadays).
When it comes to edge preparation it depends. Racers do them every 3 days or so, of course for training (full preparation). I ski a lot on icy, water injected courses, including WC courses, and I do them about once a month (again full preparation). But for my wife, I normally do them twice a year. She's skiing on much softer courses and much less aggressively, so there's no need for doing them so often. So it all depends on what kinda terrains you are skiing, and how you are skiing.
| pam w wrote: |
| I won't let the OH scrape wax off though, in normal conditions. We let the snow scrape it off. |
Just a side note for this. It's not really advisable to do this. Even if scraped off wax makes some mess, it's still better to scrap wax off. You get a lot better skis this way (even if you don't catch extra hundredths of a second), and your skiing is much more fun. And on the other side, it's also better for skis. With scratching wax off you scratch it when it's still kinda warm, and you scratch wax from top of base. When you put skis on snow, and snow "scratches" wax off your ski, it "drags" wax from base pores out (at least from top one). So instead of having skis protected and well gliding, you get shi**y glide and after first run already, centimeter or so of base around edges has no wax in top layer of base, so dirt goes in there. And it takes quite some time and work to get dirt out of base. So if you don't feel like scrapping wax off, then it's better to get some liquid wax. It's far from perfect one, but it's better then this kind of "preparation".
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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definately flack, most bases are going white and dried out after 3 or 4 days! Even hire planks get waxed (although a quick machine wax) each week. You can feel the difference after half a days skiing!!
Wanna prove it, easy. ski all morning with your mate, then at lunch time wipe the cheapest liquid wax on your base and polish it in. Now both of you go skiing again, you will be noticably faster accelerating than them and will have to pole less on the flat
Edges not so important in spring, but on frozen early morning courdroy or icy blacks you WILL appreciate having good edges
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madmole, All depends what you're doing though, if you're haring down steepish reds and want that extra couple of KPH then, yes I totally agree.. however, if you're taking an hour to get down 'off-piste' it don't make a blind bit of difference, IMHO. I'd agree that you can wax til your hearts content, but edging does remove metal thus shortening the life of the skis. Razor sharp edges won't make up for bad technique.....
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You know it makes sense.
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when we go for our annual excursion, I'll give mine and Junior's skis a good service before we go (a good half a dozen layers of wax and edges tuned) and take a file guide, diamond file and Zardoz puck out with us. Given the choice, I'd also take my full kit out and do a service at least once during the week. Only reason I don't is because OH has banned me saying I'm a sad git!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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allanm, no flack here, I kind of agree with you although I'd make sure my edges were sharp if doing something serious nothing like feeling it begin to slide from under you to tighten the sphincter.
If your base is whitening after 3 days you are using a crap wax, or a very good wax designed for a short lifetime e.g. super expensive fluros, or not putting it on properly.
Obviously if you're racing it's different but for recreational people i.e. 99.999% of users of this forum the difference is insignificant.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| allanm wrote: |
I'll get flack on this.. but .. IMHO, Generally, for a decent skier, you need your skis serviced / waxed about three to four times in a season. This is totally independent of the actual time (weeks) you are on the slopes. |
So if you are there for a season, skiing every day, you have to do them about every 25 days skiing or so, while if all you get is one trip of a week (which is probably most of us ) then you need to do them every 2nd/3rd day?
Of course it isn't totally independent of how much you ski.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| alex_heney wrote: |
So if you are there for a season, skiing every day, you have to do them about every 25 days skiing or so, while if all you get is one trip of a week (which is probably most of us ) then you need to do them every 2nd/3rd day?
Of course it isn't totally independent of how much you ski. |
No, you don't (necessarily) need to [every 2nd/3rd day], but I believe many do. The longer you're out there the less you do them, it would seem.
In eight weeks skiing last year mine were 'serviced' three times, IIRC, all towards the backend of the season - freeze/thaw , icy/sticky snow.
Looking at them now, they'll be fine for a few weeks yet.
What I do find handy though, especially when 'back marking' slower groups is a can of spray wax, only lasts a few hours at most, but takes seconds to apply and definitely saves a lot of polling.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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primoz, Thanks for that stuff about scraping. I felt that scraped skis went better, but couldn't work out why.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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If you guys are having shop waxes I can see why it doesnt make much diference having them done every 20 days or so. Shop waxes are generally so bad and thin (they are just liquid wax wiped on by machine) that its gone in 50 seconds, also expensive having them done often if your not doing it yourself.
I'm using good general waxes (dominator zoom and Toko universal), no flourinated stuff and yes, I am cruising the piste at resonable speed most of the day with accasional excursions else where. I ski for a holiday and tend to go to a different place each time and hence like to try and do every resort run in a week
OK I agree those that are powder hounds dont need to wax as often (They just spend more time filling in holes!!)
So those that dont wax weekly, take a good look at your bases and assess the colour and condition. Are they gloss jet black, matt black, grey, white? Do they feel better/glide after a wax? All my ski's are Atomics and the bases are gloss jet black, but by 3rd day of skiing (Say 100 miles worth) I can see the edges are beginning to go lighter and less gloss. Also feb snow dries them less than warmer march wet stuff
Would be good to collect a series of base photos showing how bases deteriate and what damage is repairable and how
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Thanks for all the info s,
It's good to hear how much (or little) people tune and wax in reality, without too much reduction in performance (except some cases!)
After reading all the tune/wax guides I was getting a bit worried about the finer details that aren't nessecery the majority of the time.
A quick pass with a diamond and gummi each day and a wax every 4 days or so is all I'll be doing, providing conditions are good and I don't trash my edges on rocks.
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| properjob wrote: |
| .......A quick pass with a diamond and gummi each day and a wax every 4 days or so is all I'll be doing, providing conditions are good and I don't trash my edges on rocks. |
Sounds good to me.
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Once the edges are set a tooltonic pocket tool with a diamond stone does the job for me. If it's a powder day no need to bother at all otherwise there is always a moment when someone else is faffing for me to do the side edges. Wax is a quick job whenever the base looks a bit dry and scraping doesn't make that much difference even on a powder day.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I'll just add that getting my skis properly serviced by our trainer (ex WC racer) on my coaching course made the biggest overnight difference to my skiing than anything anyone has ever said or done. So it does make a difference!
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I've found that taking time to wax your skis properly does make a difference to how long it lasts. I impregnate with Zardoz under the first coat of wax and then reheat and really get the wax to soak in a few times. Scrape and brush and it always lasts me a week without any dryish patches showing. I do try to hit the fluffy stuff any chance I get and wipe with Zardoz every day as well.
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FAQ
I've done a few base grinds using an orbital sander too, and it's come out fine 