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Courchevel - Grand Couloir

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I had a look at the entrance to the Grand Couloir in April and it looked like a narrow gutter along a short, but precipitous ridge, and a blind exit into what I guess must be the start of a relatively easy couloir.

I daresay if you've done it once you can risk being forced to straight-line the gutter - given you know what you're boarding into.

Has anyone done it on a board?

Did you walk the ridge/gutter, or did you board it? And having done it once how would you approach it again?

And I'm assuming a first-timer is recommended to walk it in soft boots and then buckle back in later on?

Or is it really not recommended for a boarder given neither approach is safe?
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> I'm assuming a first-timer is recommended to walk it in soft boots and then buckle back in later on?

sounds like a recipe for a rapid and hairy descent down either sous le tele or le tournier when you step on some ice or hard snow. I can understand your dilema as the ski track will not be fun on a board. I suggest you keep your board on and make your own route traversing along the top of the couloir Tournier (left - Meribel) side, it is only a 40 degree slope.
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crosbie, not being a boarder but having done it once (badly), I as a skier would feel very uncomfortable if I came across some one walking on the ridge and had to avoid them, it's very narrow with a lot of exposure on the Meribel side. I know this doesn't answer your question but that's my twopennth!
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I've not done it, how flat*/narrow is it? Not heard of boarders having particular trouble with it. If it's more than 3m and/or slightly downhill I'd keep the board on you should be able to control it. There was a particular traverse we were doing in Alpe D'Huez that was narrow (2m ish) and completely flat above a cliff to access some stuff of the back that I walked but in crampons: if it's that narrow and you slip you've got no chance so I wouldn't risk it just in board boots unless the snow is soft enough to kick big steps the whole way.

* by flat I mean does it lose height as you go along it or not? if it does you should have no problem, just set an edge and go. I'm assuming in all this that the traverse is across a steep slope, if it's steep enough you can push yourself along with your hands (depending on direction and stance) otherwise you could grab a pole off someone.


While typing this I've realised there are lots of ways depending on the exact situation it might be worth waiting till you see someone who knows what they're doing do it and copy them.
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Solution: do the Tournier Couloir instead - that's the one on the left at the beginning of the ridge and, IMHO, a much nicer run anyway.

Or read some more and see the pix here (all ski related):
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=46356
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=12155
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=46788
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Yes, davidof, good point. I have collapsed a path before by walking on it - oops! Shocked And almost slipped into a crevasse as a consequence. Skullie

The gutter I saw looked like it might be a ridge with rock foundations, but if it's entirely a construction of windswept snow then yeah, not a good idea to walk it.

I hate gutters/chutes that suck me into a roller coaster where skiers have brakes and I don't.

Thanks for the tip for the Tournier side. That's assuming the snow won't give way under a board.

stevew, I'd do it with a skier to guard my back. The reason I collapsed the path (above) was because a skier (instead of waiting for me to complete the path) set off toward me from the other end - some skiers seem to think it's no problem for a boarder to start going again once they have to stop on a flat, narrow and treacherous path...
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Swirly, this was one metre wide at its widest thanks to skiers and shaped like a roof gutter (a gentle descent, but icy enough to gather speed) and nothing to hold on to unless you crouch down real low. If you could see where it was going it would be FAR better.

Turning one's board (I use a 2m board) to moderate one's speed in 1m is extremely tricky. Even rapid, alternate edging can fail to take enough speed off. If this gutter was in a fun park I'd be confident of doing it without problem. With a precipice either side, the confidence disappears and one's consequent decrease in skill/fluidity (which is dependent upon confidence) becomes a liability.

Apologies to jaded extreme snowboarders who do this sort of thing backwards with their eyes shut to try and add some interest.
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is this

it?
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That is it.

Here is a video of someone snowboarding the ridge and the couloir, it gives you quite a good idea of what you will be htiing


http://youtube.com/v/YGtqcnrPQvE
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Thanks rambotion and Swirly, that sheds a lot of light on the matter. snowHead

When I looked at it there was only 100 yards visibility and a recent snowfall, so evidently only the skiers who knew it like the back of their hands were doing it - hence the narrow gutter in deep snow going into god knows what.

Looking at the photo and video it looks pretty doable - on a sunny, hi-vis day without too many rocks poking through.

Next time I'm there in that kind of weather I'll give it a go.

I'll have to make do with The Swiss Wall in Avoriaz prior to that (tons of fun).
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looks like fun Very Happy , not too sure if the drop either side would freak me out, probably not because the path has a good incline to kep a nice straight edge to edge line Very Happy
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crosbie,

I would not describe the couloir itself as "relatively easy".

It obviously depends on your ability level and snow conditions, but it can get seriously icy with some very big moguls at the top.

It's one of those that when you look from below seems OK, but can be very different looking down from the top.

I believe there have been serious accidents in there in the past. Really I feel it should be classed as off piste but I think they put it on the piste map for possibly two reasons:

1. there are few black runs in the area,

2. as it's marked as a piste it is easy to close it if conditions get too bad.
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rambotion, well that answers the question doesn't it! Just ride it like that guy does, and that is a lot wider than 2m. I can see why you could get that impression in bad vis though especially if only a couple of tracks had been put in fresh snow. Looks like I was barking up the wrong tree thinking it was a traverse too. You shouldn't need to worry about skiers behind you either: noone on that shouldn't be able to control their speed, mind it is in the 3 valleys...

The couloir itself doesn't look too much fun on a board though: too bumpy, I imagine most of the couloirs off that ridge get like that as they must get skied quite often although in fresh snow it'd be really good. This is what happens with the lake couloirs at La Grave too: they're ok but not brilliant on a board unless there's enough fresh to fill the bumps. Same goes for the Swiss wall: worth doing though, if you can get off skiers left quite high up you'll get better snow and it stays steeper for longer.

Here's a couloir that is 2m wide


It was one of those moments where Scottish Skier sideslipped into the choke and we didn't think he'd fit, 195 cm skis almost on the rocks in both sides. Mind I didn't think my board was going to fit at this point even though I knew it had to. Fairly steep line too, we don't think it gets done that much as it's a bit off the beaten track. Obviously the majority is plenty wide, just the narrow point that is only 2m. The photo's taken from about half way down the line is in this photo, if you look at the peak in the ridge above my head its the left trending line line of snow.
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rambotion wrote:
That is it.

Here is a video of someone snowboarding the ridge and the couloir, it gives you quite a good idea of what you will be htiing


http://youtube.com/v/YGtqcnrPQvE


seriously what is the point of doing that? A rutted out ridge followed by a rutted out mogul run with random gapers all over it.
From the 1st post I assumed it was something good this grand couloir. Do not want.
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Swirly, it wasn't visibility that made the path appear narrow when I saw it. It WAS narrow. Remember that no path through snow is going to be the same when you get to it as it was in the last photo you saw of it. What the photo demonstrates to me is that it wasn't narrow because the rock ridge underneath is narrow, but because of the way the snow can sometimes be swept on the saddle and how the path starts as a gutter until it's broadened out by tons of ever less intrepid/competent skiers and boarders. Evidently, it can eventually be bashed out into something rather straightforward if somewhat bumpy. If it had been like it was in the photo when I saw it, I wouldn't come here under the assumption it was an 'extreme skiers only' jobbie, I would have done it (and cursed the inevitable damage to my board).

richjp, I've read that the couloir proper is *relatively* easy compared to what can be a tricky approach, i.e. if you're at home on black runs and steep and icy moguls, it's just the ridge path to calm your nerves for.
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I stood at the entrance to the ridge for quite a while deciding whether or not I fancied giving it a go and decided not to (my skiing was not up to it then).

If i was to go back now, I would like a crack at it.

However, sort of in answer to your question, while i was stood there gawping I saw a variety of methods to tackle the ridge.

I saw people skiing it beautifully. I saw people getting across, but with little style. I saw people struggling but managing it in the end. And i saw people walking. Skiers and boarders (i did wonder whether a skier who needed to walk it should even be attempting it, but there you go) carrying their kit and walking the ridge.
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if that's the case and it really is too narrow to fit the board across sideways to control speed you can jam part of an edge into the banked snow on the side. Obviously you need to do this before you've got too much speed or you'll wipe out but it is a useful technique for some situations. I'd say practice somewhere else first though e.g. on a piste with a big bank on one side. If your board fits over the top you could sideslip it on the tip and tail, might help widen it for the next boarder too.
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Swirly, evidently this comment by admin on http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=12155 reveals the path is indeed sometimes as narrow as I saw it.

Quote:
The approach is what 'thankfully' puts most people off. The undulations caused by people following the same line over and over become most intimidating: the track becomes too narrow to snowPlough effectively and too concave to parallel effectively so many people career down it accelarating all the way and then catch a fast stop at the end - not ideal.

I saw a guide/instructor ski it though, slowly, casually even: watching him totally changed the way I looked at tracks like that.


The 'tip in the bank' isn't available when it's a pretty icy gutter, but yeah, I've no doubt I can increase my gutter skills the more I do 'em, but I tend to avoid gutters you see. wink

The 'wheelie' has also been suggested to me (dragging the tail by raising the nose until the board's almost vertical), but the idea gives me the willies and makes me worry I'll bust me board.

Yes, if the edge of the gutter is amenable, one could 'rail' it broadside, but that's scary if you come out.

Practice... Madeye-Smiley

Anyway, if it's anything like the photo above next time I get to it (not a pure gutter), it's well within my ability.
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I've skied the GC a number of times, in fresh snow it's great, in spring slush it's good, but as others have said in hard, icy, rutted large mogul type of conditions it's not my idea of fun!

Cheers,

Greg
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Doing it on a board if you have good control is not a problem. It is a fun ride but the ridge at the top needs snow cover to avoid the rocks or you can trash your board. DO NOT walk it when icy/rocky, it is a long way to fall if you loss your footing, could hurt a lot Toofy Grin

Hope you get good conditions it is worth the effort. Laughing
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sorry but that looks pretty horrible to me....and not very hard.
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Looks like it would be fine if the selfish skiers hadn't mogulled it up for everyone wink

Maybe they should put one of the "stop zone" speed camera challenges across it - that way everyone would straight line the ridge to get the best possible speed reading at the bottom, thus leaving a nice straight unmogulled track Laughing
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norris, AFAIK there are other lines accessed from that track, some of which are quite sporting.
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Swirly wrote:
norris, AFAIK there are other lines accessed from that track, some of which are quite sporting.


There used to three black "pistes" marked on the right off of that track of which only the grand couloir survives on the piste map.

The other two were reached earlier along the track and I think the first was a very short distance along. I have done the others but in very good snow conditions. I find it interesting they are no longer shown as pistes although of course the routes can still be done. I recall they could be particularly dangerous in poor conditions.
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Is the gc Courchevel much harder than the gc in les deux alpes if anyone here has skied both? i've been down the one in les deux alpes and i wouldn't mind giving the one in courchevel a go
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chewy192, looking at it I believe the access to it is the issue and not the couloir itself
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Yep, I'm with Johnny, I wouldn't want to do that. It just doesn't look fun with all those moguls.
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bar shaker, +1 (unless it was balls deep in pow, when it might be fun.)
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I quite like moguls, the challenge of them maybe, and they are great for developing really good board control Very Happy
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To be entirely honest it's not really a couloir (neither is the one in L2A), it's way too wide.
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Swirly wrote:
To be entirely honest it's not really a couloir (neither is the one in L2A), it's way too wide.


Grand = Large?

Anyway I found it challenging enough!
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Nice pic Swirly. That's exactly the sort of conditions I've encountered on the couple of occasions I've tackled it.

chewy192, I've skied both: the G. Couloir at Courchevel is definitely more technical than its namesake at L2A, and a bit longer too; both are about the same width though. As you can see from Swirly's pic above, the approach to the G. Couloir at Courchevel is also more technical than the straightforward flat approach to the one at L2A.
Also, the G. Couloir at L2A is now mostly pisted, so if you tackled it more than a couple of years ago then you probably encountered it when it was a more technical route, so you'll probably have no bother tackling the one at Courchevel.
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you cant call it a couloir unless you have to climb to it, and wonder if a board will fit down it, and worry about run out points ,and what happens if it goes tits up.
thats my 2p worth, peace and I'm out.
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I'm with Jonny on both points. DO NOT WANT. Shocked
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Quote:

you cant call it a couloir unless you have to climb to it, and wonder if a board will fit down it, and worry about run out points ,and what happens if it goes tits up.



I'm not that gnarr wink but I'd say you have to at least be aware of the walls and potential impact for it to be a couloir.
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highly overated, yes it can be ace in good snow, but its usually done first by the big french boys. then tracked out and soon becomes mogully and icy. which can also be good fun when you have the legs. the next coulour overcan be nice for a few days, and even the diagonal one past that. thats as far as i have gone. There is supposed to be about 10 routes between GC and "butchers".

if you are worrying about the narrow top ridge then don't bother going down. i guess its kind of like a tester for what is ahead. Saying that, i'm sure my mate has walked across/down it on a board then just buckled up. and me and my skiing mates, always wait and go one at a time. safety first!

for super easy access, i.e no walking or under 5mins why not go off some other close lifts in the area for steep boarding.
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I am amazed this thread is still going. All that area is great in good conditions. Loads of different routes to take but some of the hikes can be a little worrying. A long way to fall. If you are concerned about the entry on the ridge you should not be doing it, simple really. If you can make the moves to get down the ridge without a problem then the drops are great fun. If the ridge puts you off, go play somewhere else until you are ready for something harder. Better to stay safe.
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