Lot of people bang on about getting the right boots and a good boot fitter. However what I haven't seen anyone mention is what exactly happens during the process
Aside from the obvious shell check, what happens after that? If I'm thinking "Hmmm, these boots fit fine. Can't feel any particular points where it's uncomfortable", does that mean that's my cue to take 'em & run, never to return? What I don't get is - since they will be my first boots & my initial visit, how does the fitter/me know what will need adjusting - do they have x-ray eyes to spot any areas that may need sorting or tweaking. Or does everything happens AFTER I've skied at least once or twice in my new boots, & I know what hurts & what doesn't hurt.
TIA for any explanation of the process!
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Mrdini, Most important is to find a good boot fitter, then tell the truth, don't big-up your ability, tell it like it is. They'll look at your feet and measure them. They know by looking at your feet which boot last will suit you best. They'll do a shell check to check the size. Align the cuff if it's cantable. Hopefully make you a custom footbed. Heat the boots up and strap you in them while they cool down and start to model to your feet. Any pressure points can be dealt with maybe grinding or stretching the shells. Then once you're happy, off you go and give them a ski. A return visit to the boot fitter may be required once you've skied them for a bit, should you have any problems.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Mrdini, really same comment as Spyderman. Most important is the fitter picking the correct shape of shell to match your foot then the correct size and factoring in your ability / aspirations.
Mrdini, apart from the first bit it's done with liners inside. And if the fit is correct, then you will feel a bit uncomfortable to start with - and the fitter will warn you about this, as you hobble round the shop hoping your toes won't be left in the boots when the blissful moment comes for taking them off. The magic comes, as the posters above have said, in the fitter being able to look at your feet, and hear what you say, take a number of measurements, have a look at your ankle flex and then identify which of X zillion boots is actually likely to fit you properly.
It's a bit of a revelation, really, if you've only bought more or less "off the shelf" boots before. And very important if you've got weird feet (like I have).
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
As per previous posts but do remember that if you are having your boots fitted to allow at least 2hrs for the process especially if your fitter identifies alignment problems that need custom footbeds or like me you have nobbly bits on you ankles that need the shells stretching over. My first couple of days in mine after fitting I thought the fitter had made a mistake but once I had put in a few hours they were a revalation and massively improved my skiing. Go for it and spend the time to get a really good fit it will be the best thing you ever buy.
After all it is free
After all it is free
To be honest (and I hope CEM won't understood this wrong), I think all this boot fitting thing is a whole lot of marketing hype. I totally agree it's necessary for racing boots. But racing boots have liner which is only few millimeters thick (my Fischer Worldcup pro have only about 3mm thick liner on foot and a bit more around ankle). In this case stretching and grinding is necessary, since your foot is literally touching shell, and it's hopeless to think any shell will be aligned with your bones.
But with "normal" boots, liners are much much thicker, so you have much more space between your foot and shell of boot. This "space" is filled by relatively soft liner which transforms enough, that grinding and stretching is not needed. Of course if you have at least kinda "standard" foot. If someone has some weird bones, it's different thing, but on average, people have "average" structure and bones, and boots are normally made based on "average" feet.
Alignment of canting and similar things are different stuff. But based on this what I read on forums, people (including many bootfitters and "bootfitters") don't really understand it. It's not about you being centered over ski. It's about finding out what is best for particular skier, and doing this without seeing you ski (and doing many many test rides) is almost impossible. Being centered over ski doesn't mean anything. Even guys and girls at WC level have different canting settings... from leaning knee to inside, if you are not strong enough (for example after injury) to being centered or even having canting set so that knee is on outside part of ski center (sorry my English is far from perfect, so I hope you understand what I mean). And this can be done, only by testing what fits particular skier best while skiing, not while walking through store. There's no simple rule how your knee should be, and what will fit you best.
So considering most of people don't ski race boots (from this what I see on courses, I think there's less then 1% of people who ski in race boots), I think all this talk about stretching, grinding etc. etc. is a bit too much. Even from my personal experience (I also have non racing boots for work, and for skiing sometimes), and from this what I hear from other racers and non-racers who ski A LOT and also good, I don't know anyone in person, who would have some special boot fitting done on non racing boots. Of course unless someone considers getting proper size as boot fitting
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Quote:
Of course unless someone considers getting proper size as boot fitting
funny you should say that.... plenty of evidence on SHs that getting the proper size is by no means guaranteed
To be honest (and I hope CEM won't understood this wrong), I think all this boot fitting thing is a whole lot of marketing hype.
It's not marketing hype, it is a religion and snowheads is one of the places of worship.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
To be entirely fair I think it all depends on your feet.
For some people they will fit into a stock boot, provided it is correctly sized, buy an off the shelf footbed if the originals are crap and not worry about it until the liner gets too packed out or the sole of the boot is screwed.
For others they will benefit from a closer fitting which will involve some shell modification and you want a specialist for that not the Saturday boy or be confident enough with a Dremel & a heat gun to do it yourself.
for a casual skier it can be hard to justify the expense of specialist bootfitting, for an enthusiast the cost of bootfitting is minor relatove to the rest of cash you spunk on your habit. Naturally forums will incline toward the latter.
A long time ago somone trying to sell me a pair of boots said " you can have comfort or precision" . With a specialist bootfitter you stand a chance of getting both. I take primoz's point however that its something people overly worry about.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
pam w wrote:
Quote:
Of course unless someone considers getting proper size as boot fitting
funny you should say that.... plenty of evidence on SHs that getting the proper size is by no means guaranteed
Therein lies the problem as I see it. If you buy boots which are the equivalent to your UK/EU shoe size, for example, I'm a size 8/42, the equivalent mondo size often works out to be too large once the liners have packed down. After seeing a bootfitter I now have ski boots mondo size 25.5 which equates to UK 6.5. They still feel very tight to me, but I've only used them for a matter of hours in UK fridges.
Maybe the mondo sizing system ought to be re-aligned with the normal shoe sizing system?
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
queen bodecia wrote:
pam w wrote:
Quote:
Of course unless someone considers getting proper size as boot fitting
funny you should say that.... plenty of evidence on SHs that getting the proper size is by no means guaranteed
Therein lies the problem as I see it. If you buy boots which are the equivalent to your UK/EU shoe size, for example, I'm a size 8/42, the equivalent mondo size often works out to be too large once the liners have packed down. After seeing a bootfitter I now have ski boots mondo size 25.5 which equates to UK 6.5. They still feel very tight to me, but I've only used them for a matter of hours in UK fridges.
Maybe the mondo sizing system ought to be re-aligned with the normal shoe sizing system?
What normal sizing system? Euro, US, UK, Japanese? At least mondo is relatively understandable 27.0 approximates to/is 27cm etc. I always buy street shoes bigger than my ski boot size for comfort, if I was having shoes hand cobbled I suspect they'd come down in size.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
I mean UK and EU shoe sizes. I was told the mondo equivalent to UK8 EU 41/42 is 27, but with shell checks, etc. 27 is way too big for me. So should the mondo equivalent to UK8 EU 41/42 be 26?
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
If Mondo 26 is the right size for you then your foot is approximately 26cm long AIUI, mondo doesn't need recalibrating, the other sizing systems do.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
primoz, I'm similar to you in that my feet are a standard shape, I was able to ski in my current race boots with no modification at all, though I have had a couple of places stretched since. There was a thread a while ago where SMALLZOOKEEPER complained about instructors just ordering the same brand that they have always used. Maybe though the "people we know" are just the ones who were not put off skiing by boots that don't fit their feet.
I do agree that alignment changes should be done as a result of watching people ski. I find it very hard to get my trainees to set aside the time to make any changes, they spend a lot of time and money skiing around unable to get cleanly onto an edge. If a bootfitter makes some changes and they then ski in the boots and can feel that something is different then it at least it gets them thinking that alignment is worthwhile and I can fine tune it later.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
rjs wrote:
There was a thread a while ago where SMALLZOOKEEPER complained about instructors just ordering the same brand that they have always used.
I think he was complaining that guides and instructors seemed to know which boots fitted them well and didn't want to bother spending time and money listening to him doing his "fitting" gig. I suspect that an instructor knows a lot more about skiing than some geezer flogging boots and probably has some grasp of what works for them. Most of the French instructors are ex-racers after all. Either that or they were concerned about gettiing boots far too small to teach in and ending up having their toes amputated with frostbite or gangrene!
What beginners/intermediates really need is good advice on which boots to buy and a wide range of stock to choose from. I'm sure the majority of people can and do get off the shelf boots that fit perfectly well given the right advice. Boot fitting for the masses seems like a lot of faff to get what will ultimately be exactly the wrong fit and many trips back to the fitter for adjustments.[1]
But if you are interested this video (complete with whacky Canadian accent) explains the fitting process:
[1] the problem most beginners and intermediates have is that they are not ski fit and have poorish technique. This makes it hard for them to judge, on their own, what is a good fit hence the problem of getting boots a size too big. Given that the inner will pack out quite a bit spending a lot of time getting new boots fitted seems like a waste unless you have odd feet. Of course the opposite is people who think they are experts so squeeze their feet into boots a size too small then spend $$$ having them blown out to, effectively the next size.
Given the above video I would not have taken the boots where my ankle touched - punching in a rivetted area can weaken the boot at that point but would have considered other shells.
Speaking as a beginner skier who has been to a bootfitter...
Ignoring fitness, unless you know what to look for, you are fumbling around in the dark. No one tells you what a ski boot should feel like. Like most novices, I started with the theory that if my foot won't go in, the boot is too small. No one mentioned the differences between women's and men's boots either (lower cut, wider calf) and having failed miserably to be given women's boots in a hire shop in resort (size 5.5-6) I had no idea that such things existed. Add in being used to buying trainers in a 6.5/7 because they fit better, and you see where the problems start.
The boots I got before my first winter week fit pretty well. When I skied in MK a week or so ago I had a small amount of heel lift in one foot, but given I had sprained that foot about 3 weeks previously, I am not too surprised by a relative lack of suppleness in that foot (work in progress...)
An experienced boot fitter can measure your foot, look at the flex (or total lack thereof) in your ankles and give you a starting point. I ended up with more intermediate/advanced boots because of the lack of flex in my ankles. There's no point having a flex range you just can't use, better to support what you have!
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Randomsabreur, Spot on the BF did a good job it seems.
There was a thread a while ago where SMALLZOOKEEPER complained about instructors just ordering the same brand that they have always used.
Interesting - as he told me that if it aint broke etc etc.. been skiing Lange boots for years and they have always worked. So other than a Garmont Shaman the Lange was the best place to stay. Maybe that's because the basic shell hasn't changed for years !
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
kevindonkleywood wrote:
As per previous posts but do remember that if you are having your boots fitted to allow at least 2hrs for the process especially if your fitter identifies alignment problems that need custom footbeds or like me you have nobbly bits on you ankles that need the shells stretching over. My first couple of days in mine after fitting I thought the fitter had made a mistake but once I had put in a few hours they were a revalation and massively improved my skiing. Go for it and spend the time to get a really good fit it will be the best thing you ever buy.
Yep, apparently they need about a week to settle. I started in my new boots the other night and thought I would be going back, however they are improving every hour. After about 40 hours use, I will decide if anything needs to be tweaked.
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Poster: A snowHead
