 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Avago, shame - can imagine the poor little chap is a bit miffed. I think ESF generally regard 5 and upwards as suitable for children's group lessons, as opposed to the littlest ones. So probably it is indeed because he is 4.5 that he is being refused. Did you ask why? Are there any other ski schools around? Though lots don't take under 5s in the ordinary group lessons. Do you have an ESI in your resort? The one in our resort puts kids 4 - 6 into a group and are generally a bit more relaxed and flexible than ESF.
Otherwise, I suppose you could look at private lessons?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Avago, you have my sympathy, I would be really mad too  But it sounds wrong, really wrong, I am sure I saw kids who must have been only 4 years old in Oursons in Puy St Vincent last year. Maybe it's just the particular branch of ESF you are using?? My advice would be to try an ESI, we did this twice last year with our 4 year old, there was no issue with his age, they took the view that 'yes he can ski, yes he seems up for it, let him come' and he did very well, he gained his Cristal and Cristal Bronze which as far as I can see are higher than the Ourson award. I don't see what the ESF's problem should be with taking a gung ho 4 year old into Ourson. Try the ESI if you can, I don't think you will regret it. Most of the recommended ski schools which come up on here time and time again are branches of the ESI. Good luck with it, don't let the ESF get you down 
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Avago, There was a 4 year old in my kids' ESF ski lessons this year in Risoul (they were 7, 8 and 10 at the time). I think he'd had a few indoor slope lessons and everybody else were first timers.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Avago wrote: |
Should we go down the route of telling a little fib about his age?  |
Yes. Will he pass for 5? I would, especially if another member of your party will be in the group, I don't think he will want to go off on his own. I agree with you and think that kids like the company of other kids in ski lessons, they can have a bit of fun.
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It's only the British who'd be worried / ashamed of lying about the age in a situation like this. Just go for it.
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sarah, He'll be more comfortable as will his first-timer friend.
horizon, Your right, I'm sure it has been done lots of times before. 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Well I confess to being British, and to being dubious about lying about his age, and not only because every 3, 4 and 5 year old I've even known knows EXACTLY how old they are and frequently tells people about it. Do you really want to tell him to lie about it, if asked?
There might also be some insurance complications.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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pam w, never too early to learn the difference between a small white lie and a real lie. The kids will work that one out anyway soon enough. I guess you can even make it a game.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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He has been in skiing lessons since he was 3 with ESF - why, if they can't move up to the next level, do they give them a certificate and medal to prove that they have achieved the skills to progress. It makes a mockery of the whole thing and could also be the difference in him wanting to continue with skiing and finding it, for want of a better word, boring. I love skiing with my son but I am not skilled enough to be able to provide him with the correct instruction to help him progress in the correct way.
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| Avago wrote: |
| He has been in skiing lessons since he was 3 with ESF - why, if they can't move up to the next level, do they give them a certificate and medal to prove that they have achieved the skills to progress. |
I think this proves in this case that ESF in the resort you are going to are the limiting factor in which case just book with a different aka better ski school.
Unless you're going skiing in the Outer Hebrides it's likely that a good english independent school for resort x will have been covered on here before so do a quick search and if that doesn't work a follow-up post about where you're going and good schools for kids is probably a good idea.
There's more to life than ESF
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You know it makes sense.
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Avago, echo what's been said above, try and find another ski school. Unless it's an insurance issue for the ski school (in which case they should just tell you as at least then you'd understand) they should make the judgement based on his physical and emotional development.
Have you already told them how old he is? If so could you get your other half to email and book him in so they don't make a connection. Maybe don't lie about his age, just fail to mention it.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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We (in 2 Alpes) take children from 4 yrs in our groups with a max of 4 children for skiing and 5yrs for snowboarding.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| pam w wrote: |
| Well I confess to being British, and to being dubious about lying about his age, and not only because every 3, 4 and 5 year old I've even known knows EXACTLY how old they are and frequently tells people about it. |
yes, especially when you are after that under fives free lift pass!
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Avago, You could try skiing in Switzerland where my kids were both accepted into group classes as soon as they were old enough to complete the few hours session without minding doing so. In my case they were around 4 yrs old at the time, but younger children were accepted.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Shimmy Alcott wrote: |
My 2nd daughter goes into Piou Piou this December, (she's 3 in a couple of weeks) she's toilet trained but I'm worried that (with all the layers to get off etc ) she might not be best in pull up nappies or something!  She will only be in for the morning (2 1/2 hours). |
The first time our son went to ski school he was just 3, was also well toilet trained, but as you say there are quite a few layers to contend with, so we did put him in pull-ups just incase and for our peace of mind.
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| Quote: |
Should we go down the route of telling a little fib about his age?
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Conversation at lift station last season:
Controller: I see this is a free child's pass - how old is your little girl?
Dad: Oh, she's four
Little girl (loudly): Oh no, Daddy, I've had my birthday, I'm FIVE!!
Controller: You're nicked, sir.
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Lizzard,
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never too early to learn the difference between a small white lie and a real lie.
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I agree with that. Children need to tell white lies - to say thank you nicely for boring presents, or a lunch which made them want to hurl. And not to tell that funny lady that her tummy is falling out of her trousers. Children can understand about rudeness. My 3 year old once surpassed himself in this regard - he loved toy cars and Lego and always hoped presents would be one or the other. An aunt gave him a T shirt - a nice T shirt, but still a little dull for a 3 year old. It was mainly white, and as he opened the packet he said enthusiastically "Oh lovely, it's nappy liners!" (he knew about those, having a baby brother). He sounded quite convincing and was moderately pleased when he found it was actually a T shirt with a nice picture on the front. On another occasion, when he ws 4, he said he wanted to go home, when we were having tea with rather posh people we didn't know well. I shushed him and said we'd be going a bit later but he got quite distressed and shouted loudly that he wanted to go home "Right Now!!". Again, I said firmly we'd go later. "Well I really want to poo!", he shouted, in tears, "but I thought it would be rude to say that". Our gracious hostess said "Oh Dan, don't worry, we've got lots of places for you to poo in this house, come with me and you can choose".
But the example here is not a "white lie" really, is it? It's an attempt to circumvent the rules and in the case of lying to get a toddler ski pass, it's fraud. In a few years time they'll be told to lie about their address to get into the right school. Like that poor kid in that fake balloon stunt in the US; what a terrible example to set kids.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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pam w, We put the options of private (on your own) lessons or going to Piou Piou again and he opted for Piou Piou so to have fun with other children, but he added "Don't worry Mummy I'll help you to ski when I finish"!!
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Avago, Sweet! It's good that he enjoyed it enough to want to do it again. He'll be the group champion, that's for sure, which is not such a bad thing really.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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FAQ
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So I guess you must be right that it is his age that is the problem.
. Fortunately we have alternatives who will 
