 Poster: A snowHead
|
Having just perused the on-line brochures I was staggered to see what certain companies mean by 'family friendly' skiing trips. Essentially, this entails dropping your kids off at ski school or some 'club' ALL DAY so the indulgent parents can bug off and ski to their hearts content. Other 'family freindly' initiatives include a 'listening service' so that the parents can wander off for a pint and a pizza whilst a young girl patrols the corridoors of the hotel. Even more 'helpful' is a 'night creche' service so again the loving mummy and daddy can go out and get totalled.
Isn't this all a bit selfish? Isn't it another symptom of the 'kidulthood' syndrome afflicting the 30 and 40 somethings who want to have their cake and eat it? Isn't it a symptom of the moral morass we're living in?
I would've thought the whole point of a family skiing trip was to spend time with the family, not dispense of the company of those we love.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
most domestics and divorces and suicides all happen around christmas.. i would say the last thing families need is to spend more time together!! 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
Not sure what the problem is with going out as a couple while the kids are tucked up asleep in bed, but yes the all day thing has never appealed to me as the kids just want to ski with us, although I use the term us loosely as mrs ollski never really got the hang of it and was always on a private lesson so we never really saw her. For me the usual morning of ski school and family ski in the afternoon was the way to go so the kids could show us what they did in the morning.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
kevin mcclean, My kids love the club activities, and are really looking forward to going again. Why shouldn't the adults be allowed to enjoy themselves as well?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
|
|
|
|
I'm not bothered either way......just so long as they irresponsible bleeders do not take their little darlings out of school during term time to clog up the empty pistes 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
kevin mcclean, interesting point. Depends how you interpret "family-friendly" of course; if you think families should spend as much time as possible together, then no, those holidays are not. However, if the parents are needing a break from the usual family routine of 24hr-care, thus enabling them to go back to said routine, then they are indeed altogther family-friendly 
Another valid consideration is how old those kids are. Some aren't old enough to ski - and that's when the parents usually need a break the most. The older they get, the more likely they are able to ski with you all day. And then - like ollski says - why not have a beer when the kids are tucked up in bed? It's a parent holiday too. Of course, as the kids get even older, they'll be able to come out for a beer with you. And older still, you advise the kids how best to cope with the grandchildren by taking advantage of the facilities on a family-friendly ski holiday 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
|
|
|
|
I off-load my kids each morning into Ski School - strangely enough I've heard the worst thing I could do is try and teach them myself or hang around watching the Ski School.
I
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
thefatcontroller, you and me both - I'm taking mine out of school as well.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
kevin mcclean, I agree. We've skied with our kids (excepting being in different group lessons, based on ability) and done stuff in the evenings with them almost invariably.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Insults are always a signal that one has touched a nerve............
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
kevin mcclean, how do you find it best to organise holidays with your family?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
I take my family on trips so I can ski another week, not to "bond". 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
"Family Friendly" holidays are for those that don't have the facilities to leave the kids at home with capable grandparents. I/we run/ran around after the little feckers 51 weeks a year and we NEED a break.
We had a fantastic 2 days on one hoiliday where our skiing paths wit the kids
were almost parallel.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| Quote: |
We had a fantastic 2 days on one hoiliday where our skiing paths wit the kids
were almost parallel.
|
Frosty the Snowman, kids were skiing parallel and you weren't?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| Quote: |
Isn't this all a bit selfish? Isn't it another symptom of the 'kidulthood' syndrome afflicting the 30 and 40 somethings who want to have their cake and eat it? Isn't it a symptom of the moral morass we're living in?
|
To answer this point, no I don't think it is selfish. Kids can have a lot more fun doing kid things with other kids than spending time with their boring parents. Many families are together all the time and a break from each other can be truely beneficial.
I would agree that there are some parents who probably shouldn't have had kids as they are not prepared to spend the time with them, but for many people this type of holiday can be brilliant and I don't think you can criticise people who use them. I don't think that was your intention but you can understand that people may see it as such.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
Boris, agree 100%. When I head off on a family ski holiday in March (with a certain family ski operator close to my heart ...) I will probably spend three days skiing with the mates we are travelling with and three larking about with my wife and a snowsuited toddler and generally chilling out.
The "family friendly" set up allows the flexibility, it doesn't mean you have to ski all day then go on the lash as soon as you get off the slopes. To lift a quote direct from a family that stayed with us last Easter "“This has been our best holiday so far! With 4 children under 7 we have often needed another break after the holiday had ended. Here we feel we’ve truly had a holiday, it feels like we’ve been away for ages and the kids had a lovely time.”
My parents used to leave me to get bored rigid with any willing geriatrics in the neighbourhood when they went off on their holidays. Surely this kind holiday is an advance rather than a sign of society's slide into the abyss...
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
I didn't see enough of the kids for 47 weeks of the year. Longish hours, stints of commuting and trips abroad. I wanted to maximise the time with them on holiday.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
laundryman, and that's great. These holidays clearly aren't up your street. I think a few of us are reacting to the suggestion that if this is the kind of holiday you and your family enjoy you're a selfish old lush who doesn't give a monkey's about spending time with your kids.
Now must log-off and get on my bike or I'll miss bath time!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
kevin mcclean, I think you are just a bit jealous of all of these families having fun without being aritficially tied together.
There has to be a balance. When we go on a skiing holiday the kids go in ski school or creche in the morning and we go and ski. We then all meet up for lunch and have the afternoon together building snowmen and generally messing around. It works so well in giving us a bit of ski time and the kids get to learn to ski. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
Holidays serve more than one purpose for me.
I like to be able to have time with my family, I also like to be able to unwind from the hassles of work and every day life by skiing and exercising outside.
When the kids are very young you cannot ski with them so either you don't ski and look after them or you hand them over to someone else for part of the day. We did the latter sometimes with a granny occasionally with a baby sitter or nanny.
As they get older they can ski a bit but is it sensible to teach them yourselves? We hand them over to ski school for part of the time and ski with them the rest of the time.
Usually spend the evening with them although this is at least in part a cost based decision, Can't say that you are missing out on valuable family time by going out for the odd meal whilst the little darlings are asleep.
The idea that either you have to spend an entire holiday glued to your children or that you wish to spend the entire time with them out of sight are both slightly strange concepts to me.
I have never been with a family holiday operator skiing but I don't see why you cannot use the services selectively to get the occasional bit of adult time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I have often wondered, being in a second marriage where we decided to opt out of being parents, if there is a market for a Kiddery.
You would be able to drop off the kids on the way to the airport, leaving them in the care of child loving Estinian 18 year old girls for your holiday. Each child would have aheated cage and a tv remote. For a small extra extra fee children would also get a game controller in their cage with unlimited access to Gran Turismo and Resident Evil.
You could pick them up on the way back from the airport and everyone's happy.
Sounds like a winner for everyone.
Anyone want to buy Start Up equity?
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
thefatcontroller, that was a business proposition, not child-rearing advice.
It has been my (extensive) experience that when people specify 'child friendly', what they want is to be able to let their offspring rampage around the hotel causing whatever mayhem they please while they themselves lurk in the bar and refuse to take anyresponsibility for the resulting damage, inconvenience etc. And they get very shirty when you suggest that possibly they might take some steps to prevent their little darlings making a racket, invading the kitchen and/or staff areas, running around the restaurant during service ..... etc etc.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
bar shaker, if I could leave the kids and take the 18 year old Estonian girl then you're onto a winner 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
Maybe admin should set up a forum specifically for the 'snowhead perfect parents group'. You know the type, won't take their little geniuses out of school ever as they are to clever to miss a day (i.e. so stupid they need the extra days), never let them from their side when on holiday as being with perfect Mummy and Daddy is such fun (kids grow up and leave home asap to get away from over protective parents) but the most important trait is to look down on others parents which is not easy as their heads weigh so heavy due to their haloes.
Lizzard, Trust me if my kids behaved like that they would feel the back of my hand quick, but I'm not allowed to do that am I
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
thefatcontroller,
Well I took mine out every year, even in year 11. The eldest is a trainee accountant and has just completed a 3 year AAT accountancy course in 2 years and has progressed onto CIMA (age 19) The youngest is at college doing A levels and doing very well thank-you. So having the odd week off school hasn't hurt them on the contrary, they knew they were fortunate having 2 or 3 skiing trips a year and they ALWAYS did any extra study needed without any pressure from us.
It always makes me laugh when Parents are shocked that you might do this and state I would never do that with mine and"mine" are 7 years old. Like its going to make the difference between being a Doctor or a Binman.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
I am a full time Mum and find myself in a very fortunate position of not having had to go back to work after having our son four years ago. Does it make me a bad parent that I, as well as my son, need time away from each other? Maybe my son is a bad child for wanting to go to Ski-school in the mornings of our holiday and to leave his parents to fend for themselves for a couple of hours!! We really enjoy our family time together in the afternoons and love watching his excitement of showing us what he has learnt that morning. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
Don't see why a few folks saying they like to see their kids during the holidays mean they are criticising others who take time of with their kids during term time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
Personally, I think a "family friendly" ski trip is one where parents and children (i.e. a family) get to ski... realistically I'd be crap teacher for both my kids, and they would no doubt prefer to be with kids their own age having more fun. If one evening we fancied a "grown up" meal I would quite like to have the opportunity to do so (it's our holiday too). All sounds good to me! 
I do agree to some extent though that if the only time I saw my kids was on the plane there and back then I probably wouldn't describe it as a family holiday.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
T Bar, I think you should read the initial post again According to the forkwit in the initial posting I and many others here are 'selfish' , we go on these holidays to ignore our kids and get 'totalled' and we are a 'symptom of the moral morass we're living in'. Forgive me for finding the poster a patronising lady's front bottom.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Go on a holiday where your kids are in breakfast club, ski club, dinner club and pajama club everyday...that's sad, but there is a lot of inbetween options.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
ski holidays are one of the best kind of holidays to share with kids as they grow older. We never did "child care" type holidays. We couldn't have afforded it, and as we didn't go till the littlest was 4 - and then took a granny - it was just never a problem and we took it in turns to do things. The holidays the kids enjoyed most were with their cousins - especially if there was somewhere to toboggan and play snowballs just near the accommodation (as there was in Mottaret and in La Rosiere) and, when they were all competent and nearly all on snowblades, when they could go off and do their own thing a bit. I think they would have been bored with us all day - though they enjoyed playing games in the evenings, with us and others in chalets. Having other kids around was a major plus.
This coming Christmas we shall be looking after 3 and 6 year old grandchildren, a 7 month pregnant daughter ( a good skier but not skiing this time) and a very nervous daughter-in-law having another go at skiing after an ACL rupture on her first ever attempt, in Les Gets years ago. Son and son-in-law, both good skiers, will be able to ski together a fair bit - though they will also be expected to dance attendance on their spouses from time to time. We have new French neighbours whose kids are similar ages - and they're already looking forward to playing together in the snow. From previous experience the language barrier, with such young kids, won't be a problem.
I expect it to be hard work but good fun. But we shall have plenty of other time to ski - so devoting a week to the kids, and the others, won't be any hardship. I'm off tomorrow to book private ski lessons in various combinations. For our son and his family a ski holiday with three small kids, including a baby just about walking, would be very, very, hard work without a fair bit of help with child care. They don't want a holiday without the kids, but neither do they want to spend 24/7 in a little nuclear family box with no help and no outside stimulation and input. I think we'll all have a better time because the group is quite big. But we are lucky - we have an apartment, we can borrow another from our Belgian neighbours who have become very good friends, we have time to get things organised, etc. Without all that, using one of the "family friendly" options would not doubt be the best bet for a holiday that all the family can enjoy. But there's no way they'd be able to afford it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
Shimmy Alcott, well said!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
thefatcontroller, Personally I think he was trying to provoke rather than patronise, but still don't see where the term time holidays come in.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
